Litter training the Diva

[Elaine]

Have started a new thread coz its not fair of me to hijack some one elses.
Just a thought I'd like to run past you all really at the mo.
I was thinking, as I have been trying to solve this issue with Eva for well over a year now and some of you know I have tried almost everything including keeping a diary or several.
What about I post updates here on what I am currently trying and the outcome, maybe some of you can pick up on something I am missing???
Would any of you be willing to help me here coz i really am all out of ideas. I am resigned to picking up her poo parcels but sometimes Graham loses patients with her. He doesnt shout at her or anything but he will whine at me about it and I am sure she can pick up on all that too.
She would never be under threat of being rehomed or anything because of this, we love her too much and no one else would put up with her to be honest. But I said before we love her warts and all, surely SHE would be happier if we could find a resolution to this though.
So what do you all think?

[Mags]

Elaine I think that's a good idea to put regular updates in this thread.... I've never experienced anything like this but I am more than willing to cooperate and throw any ideas at you that come to mind ;)

I really hope you find a solution to this .....

[alexgirl73]

Count me in too Elaine, definitely willing to help get to the 'bottom' of this (sorry).

[Elaine]

Thanx guys, will give a run down of all I have tried to date and may even try some things again, will keep you informed of what I am currently trying and we will take it from there.
Thanx so much, we may just get to the heart of the problem yet:D .

[alexgirl73]

Has she had this problem since you got her Elaine, or is it a fairly recent development?

[Fran]

Sounds like a great idea Elaine...I'll help if I can. Hopefully between us all we might just crack it?

[Fran]

Does she have access to outside at all Elaine?

[Elaine]

Eva wasnt the best as a kitten but it became more often as she was reaching a year old. She is now 2 years and 6 months old. At first we thought it might have had something to do with Winston and his CRF as his pee could sometimes smell a bit. She doesnt have regular access to outside because we live in the city centre. When we are home and its daylight we let her out for a bit, we do have a very high walled back garden.
We had her checked to rule out medical issues.
She has never wee'd outside of the litter box. When she does go for a wee though, she obviously doesnt like the feel under her feet coz she jumps out very fast once she is done. That said we have tried all kinds of litter, litter boxes, feliway, trays together, trays apart, trays in different rooms.
Currently we have a tray in the bedroom, living room, kitchen and bathroom. The one in the bedroom has carpet in it with a light dusting of catlitter, so far she aint touched it. The one in the living room has catsan fine granuals, the one in the kitchen has a paper based litter and the one in the bathroom has comfypet wood pellets. She has chosen to use the one in the living room to wee in, but still jumps out quickly once she is done. When I catch her in a tray, I praise her, just a little "good girl" kind of thing.
Have today bought a corner litter box but havent set it out anywhere as yet. Was thinking of putting some litter in it and placing it in the bedroom beside the carpet tray.

[alexgirl73]

Have you looked into the method of teaching her to use a proper toilet? I have seen the training aids advertised, maybe as she doesn't like using a tray, this could be another option.

[Elaine]

I did think about this when Dinahsmum was doing it with her kitties but never got round to ordering the stuff. It may just be an idea though as she responds quite well to clicker training. One to look into a bit further.

[Mags]

Has she ever been wees/poos out in the garden Elaine?

[Fran]

I was just wondering if she does at anytime do her business outside? If so then you could perhaps try soil in the litter tray. Have you thought about trying sand as it's very soft under foot?

[Elaine]

Nope, she always comes indoors to do her business. I had toyed with the idea of making a sand pit out there to see if that would help but she doesnt get regular access to the back garden.

[Mags]

I was just wondering if she does at anytime do her business outside? If so then you could perhaps try soil in the litter tray. Have you thought about trying sand as it's very soft under foot?
That's just what I was thinking Fran! :D

[Elaine]

I use the term "garden" very loosly girls LOL, so there isnt any loose earth out there for her to dig in. That said it may be worth experimenting with earth and sand in the litter boxes. I imagine I would just buy it from a garden centre or something.

[Elaine]

I did try fullers earth and she didnt like that. Will try to get to a garden centre on friday and pick up some earth and sand to experiment with. Thanx girls, will let you know how that goes when I get it.

[Mags]

Have you got a back lane or such like Elaine where you could dig up a shovel full of soil to try it out first?

[Liz]

Elaine,

Try compost - its sanitised and thats what we use with the ferals when they first come in and slowly overtime add another type of litter we are now compost free apart from the grenhouse - left an open bag and ground so hard they are now using the greenhouse compost bag as its not frozen yet!

[dandysmom]

Think the compost sounds worth trying More of a natural, earthy outdoorsy smell to it...wish I could think of anything else,,,have you tried shredded paper?

[dinahsmum]

Not advice - just throwing some thoughts into the mix; take or leave as you wish

The toilet doesn't sound a bad idea - you can get them here now (as opposed to sending to the US. Litter-Kwitter :roll: . http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=165&pf_id=6357It's better than the one I used, as the various rings are replaceable, should you need to retrace a step - or get another cat to train :roll: .

World's Best Cat Litter is probably that. Might be worth a try?

Good luck

[Donna]

No advice I am afraid, but wishing you luck on your mission!

[Elaine]

Thankyou all for your input so far.
Update, the litter tray with carpet in has has been used for a wee but unfortunately I dont know who used it:roll: .
I now have 5 trays set up. one in each of the bedroom, bathroom and living room. I now have 2 in the kitchen, it being the biggest room with plenty of space to do so, they are side by side as Fran had suggested. If its worth a go once, its worth a go twice;) . I dont have the sand or the earth as yet coz I havent been able to get out to the garden centre for it yet.
This morning I spent ages scrubbing the carpets with washing powder and water, with a tiny nail brush:? , just to make sure all areas were thoroughly clean once again. I havent picked up a poo since wednesday, not sure if Graham has, will find out when he gets home. I do know that she hasnt done one in a litter tray coz I know the difference between the two of them.
Will update later and thanx once again for any help, suggestions or advice.

[Elaine]

Have looked at the link Dinahsmum, thanx, will maybe invest in thet in the new year when I have some cash once again.

[Elaine]

Todays update.
Found a lovely surprise this morning. An Eva poo in a litter tray. YAY!!!
Then I came into this room and found one here too.
Spoke to Graham about training them to use the loo and he thinks its a super idea, since we are running out of ideas, what have we got to lose. So once I get paid, I will order the kit and see what happens.

[alexgirl73]

Well, it's progress of a sort Elaine, lol. Hope the toilet training idea works for you. I think it sounds like a great idea.

[dandysmom]

Well, congratulations on half a success! Have you given the shredded paper a try?

[Elaine]

I have tried paper litter and newspaper but not shredded paper. Can you buy shredded paper? Its got to be worth a shot. Anything is LOL.

[dandysmom]

Truthfully, don't know! I've seen shredded paper mentioned as a litter substitute, but never needed to try it. I'm assuming you don't have a paper shredder at home (nor do (I :cry:) but maybe some of your friends work in an office where stuff is shredded regularly and they could save a bagful for you to try,,,wouldn't cost anything and it might just maybe work....good luck, and Merry Christmas!

[Elaine]

Thanx DM, will ask around.
Merry Xmas xxx

[Elaine]

Well the Diva was a good little girl and pooped in a litter tray this evening.
Dont be fooled that the issue is solved folks coz she does this from time to time then reverts back to using the carpets.

[alexgirl73]

She was just giving you a Christmas present Elaine, lol!

[Elaine]

She seems to be using the tray for now. She always does this just to make a fool of me. It wont last but fingers crossed it does.
There is nothing different about the tray she has chosen to use. Catsan fine granuals are what's in it.

[Mags]

It will be interesting to see how long she uses the tray for Elaine :? If she 'misses' again, try to remember anything different that may have changed ........

[Elaine]

OK the honey moon period is now over. On my way to bed last night, there it was, a big poo at the end of the bed.

[Mags]

:shock: .. that didn't last long then! :roll: Do you keep a litter tray in the bedroom as well Elaine ?

[alexgirl73]

She is a bit finicky isn't she Elaine. Did anything upset her today?

[Elaine]

No more than usual Alex:D We dont call her the Diva for nothing you know:D
Anyway, Have just ordered one of those kits to train her to use the loo. Got to be worth a go, after all she is pretty responsive to clicker training so maybe....
I still havent had a chance to get to the garden centre yet either but will do after the new year is past and get some sand and soil.

[Elaine]

:shock: .. that didn't last long then! :roll: Do you keep a litter tray in the bedroom as well Elaine ?

Yup there is one in there too.

[alexgirl73]

Good luck with the loo thing. I'd love to try it with my 3, but can you imagine Teddies little legs trying to support her on the rim of the loo, lol!

[Elaine]

A very funny and cute mental image Alex:D Poor wee Teddy xxx.
Have just been laughed off another forum for saying I am gonna try this. They'll be laughing on the other side if this works:)

[dandysmom]

Will be very interested in hearing how this works! Keep us posted, please, Elaine, and good luck!

[alexgirl73]

Imagine laughing at you Elaine, loads of people have used this and it's worked for them. It wouldn't sell if people didn't recommend it.

[Elaine]

Hmmmm the Diva is playing games with me I think. She decided to poo in the tray again last night, bless her.

[Mags]

Hmmmm the Diva is playing games with me I think. She decided to poo in the tray again last night, bless her.
Maybe she's starting her New Year's Resolution early Elaine! ;):lol:

[Elaine]

I do hope so. It always seems that when I embark on trying to resolve this issue, thats when she uses the tray the most. And just when i think everything is sorted, she goes back to using the carpet.
Just hope she doesnt take up reading whilst on the pan LOL

[Fran]

I really hope the 'toilet' training works Elaine, this must be terribly frustrating for you :(

[Elaine]

To be honest with you Fran, what frustrates me the most, is knowing that Eva cannt be totally happy/relaxed within herself or her surroundings by behaving this way and constantly battling to find out what it is that really bothers her is more frustrating than cleaning up kitty logs.
She is a very good cat really and absolutely gorgous but very sensitive emotionally.

[alexgirl73]

It is something that must be driving you nuts, trying to figure out what upsets her. You know that it'll be something silly like you wearing a new perfume, or using a different fabric conditioner. But keep going Elaine, you'll find something that works eventually. x

[Snoof]

I understand your frustration, Elaine, from when I was working with Ninja. But I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of this - we all know how dedicated you are to your cats.

[Elaine]

Thanx Snoof xxx

[dandysmom]

Elaine, is she using the same box when she does it, or just any box? If it's the same, maybe it's that location or the litter in that one...? If it's random, then who knows,,,this is so frustrating for you (((hugs)))

[Elaine]

The last few times she has used the tray, it was the same one each time but again we have been here before. This time she preffered the one in the living room, the last time she preffered the one in the kitchen, so who knows.
I once even contacted an animal psycic who said Eva told her she wanted the blue tray so we gave her the blue tray and then she changed her mind and wanted the red one LOL
What to do with a Diva LOL. Just as well I have a good sense of humour, thats all I can say. LOL

[alexgirl73]

LOL, Elaine! As you say, just as well you love the little madam! Have you tried an animal behaviourist?

[Elaine]

Yes and that was a complete waste of £60, I can tell you. Dont talk to me about animal behavourists or atleast the one here in Aberdeen, she is crap!!!

[Elaine]

That said I do know a woman in Sheffield who is very good and has helped me in the past with different things, but she is struggling with the Diva's antics too and suggested confining her to a cage and retraining her. I dont want to do this because I know the Diva and I know this will only make her stressed and very unhappy. I have even had trainee behaviourists contact me by e-mail trying to find the solution and they gave up too. LOL

[alexgirl73]

Ah! Not that avenue then, lol. Does anyone know of an animal hypnotist? 'look at the swinging mouse Miss Diva, you are getting sleepy and you will not c**p on the carpets any more', lol!

[Elaine]

:lol: :lol: :lol: And you think you are NOT mad?:lol: :lol: :lol:
If I knew of one, beleive me I would give anything a try as long as it wasnt going to upset her even further.:roll:

[dandysmom]

(rolls eyes, sighs heavily!) I've read on here about something called Feliway which I infer is something that calms and relaxes cats...have never heard of it here...have you tried that for her stress?

[Elaine]

LOL again yes, we have tried feliway and felifriend, training spray and rescue remedy.
I am really begining to beleive that she simply doesnt like the feel of grit, of any description, under her paws.
I do still have to try the compost and sand though, just havent managed to get the time to get to the garden centre yet, hopefully next week.
We have seriously tried almost everything. I used to think that maybe it was somehow to do with Winston and his illness, I also hoped that as she and Bernie bonded that she would gradually come out of it, but as i have said there really doesnt seem to be much rhyme or reason to it as she will use the tray to pee in and will poo in it too for anything from a few days to a week at a time, then its back to using the carpets again and always within a foot of the tray. I have tried scooping as soon as there is anything in the tray, keeping the trays as clean as possible to leaving her poo in the tray for differing lengths of time. Shallow litter, deep litter, tapering depths of litter and even built a sand castle complete with flag LOL.

[dandysmom]

(sighs very heavily) At this point, all I can think of is to recommend the Serenity Prayer: Grant me the courage to change what I can change, to accept what I cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference.......:cry:.

[Elaine]

Thanx for that Dandysmum, I do accept her for who and what she is. She is absolutely the BEST cat she knows how to be and who knows maybe she wants to be human and use our loo, she is the Diva after all.

[dandysmom]

Well, happy New Year to you, the Diva and Bernie from me and Leia!

[Elaine]

Hmmm, maybe a potty would be a good idea for the Diva LOL. A few weeks ago she had poo'd in the computer room so had laid a bowl there after cleaning it up, which I put some of her buscuits in to deter her from using this room as a toilet.
Well that had been going fine but this morning I got up and she had poo'd in the bowl perfectly LOL.

[alexgirl73]

LOL, sorry for laughing Elaine, but she IS a Diva isn't she? I'm beginning to think the little madam knows exactly what she's doing, and spends her sleeping hours dreaming up new ways to surprise you.

[Elaine]

:lol: :lol: :lol: I agree with you Alex, Graham and I were in hysterics this morning when we saw it:lol: :lol: :lol: You gotta love her though dontcha.

[Elaine]

Ok toilet trainer arrived today. Have set it up and read the leaflet. Lets see if this will work. Last night she was a good girl and used a littler tray.

[alexgirl73]

Fingers crossed for you Elaine. Really hope this works, if not there's always nappies!!!!!!!!

[Fran]

Good luck Elaine! Let us know how you get on

[Elaine]

Fingers crossed for you Elaine. Really hope this works, if not there's always nappies!!!!!!!!
:-D Yeah like she'd let me humiliate her like that:-D

Will keep you all posted though.

[dandysmom]

Eager to hear how it goes...good luck !!

[Elaine]

Eager to hear how it goes...good luck !!

Thankyou. So far she has had a good sniff at it but its early days yet. Fingers crossed please that we will soon be sharing our bathroom with the Diva:lol:

[Elaine]

Eva pee'd in her potty"!!!
A strange pattern has developed over the last few days though. Bernie goes into tray to poo and at the same time Eva poo'd on the floor, just outside of the same tray???

[Fran]

Progress Elaine! Well done! Got to admit that the pooing at the same time as Bernie is quite bizaree :? But I have to admit that sometimes my meezers go to the toilet in pairs, both in the litter at the same time...strange creatures cats aren't they?

[Mags]

Eva pee'd in her potty"!!!
A strange pattern has developed over the last few days though. Bernie goes into tray to poo and at the same time Eva poo'd on the floor, just outside of the same tray???
The Diva never fails to amaze me :lol: .....well done Eva!! :-D

[dandysmom]

Now if she's only poo in her potty...!! At least she seems to have gotten the general idea...she's a smart girl, hope she sorts it out!

[Elaine]

Well I am hoping now that she has pee'd in it and if she continues to pee in it that she will gradually get the message and feel comfortable enough to poop in it. So will continue with the idea of placing it on the toilet and reducing the rings.

[Mags]

She's a quick learner Elaine! :D

[alexgirl73]

Great to hear progress is being made Elaine, long may it continue!

[Elaine]

Keep thinking good thoughts...... Eva pooped in her potty!

[Fran]

Excellent news Elaine!!!!!

[Elaine]

Will give it a little more time before moving onto stage 2 of the master plan, just to make sure she is using it consistantly. I think its making a big difference because Bernie has shown no interest in using the potty at all, which is ok by me as he always uses the litter tray and no mistakes.

[alexgirl73]

That's great to hear Elaine! So many fingers crossed here it's becoming rather difficult to type, lol!

[Elaine]

Just when you think you have turned a corner, The Diva goes and poo's on the bedroom carpet. I despair of that little girl but we will keep plodding away and see what happens.

[Fran]

Elaine, I have stumbled accross a cat litter called Cat Attract, it's designed for cats that won't do their business in a litter tray. I have posted about it and a link to a UK supplier in Sweet's thread entitled 'Pass'



http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?p=335657#post335657

[alexgirl73]

How are things going with the Diva anyway Elaine? I haven't seen you about for the last few days.

[Elaine]

Well for the last 3 days she has decided to poo in the litter box in the bedroom and has no interest in the potty thing anymore.
I aint holding my breath though.
Thanx for the link Fran, I had read about Cat Atract on us forums but couldnt find a supplier here, until now that is. Gotta be worth a go.
Oh and just to let you know she is NOT AT ALL impressed with sand or earth in the litter boxes.
She is gonna be the death of me, that little fussy minx LOL

[dandysmom]

Did you ever try the shredded paper, Elaine?

[Elaine]

No I completely forgot about that one. Will get onto it soon. Have ordered some Cat Attract just incase she changes her mind again about the litter box. Have also bought some sticky paws coz i am (hopefully) gonna start re-decorating the living room and getting a new sofa etc.
Any one tried Sticky paws?

[dandysmom]

:smt017 Don't know what it is......

[Fran]

What is sticky paws Elaine?

[Elaine]

Its for putting on new or old furnishings to stop cats scratching the hell out of them.
I dont really mind them scratching but they have trashed one of my chairs in the living room so would kinda like to try to retrain them to use all the scratching posts they have instead, at least for a while LOL.

[Elaine]

I think it works like double sided cellotape kind of idea.

Thought I'd give it a bash.

[Fran]

I think it works like double sided cellotape kind of idea.

Ah ok, I have heard that double sided sticky tape is effective so let us know how you go with the Sitcky Paws...

[dandysmom]

Wish I'd heard of that years ago! All of them, up to and including Leia have done a number on my two Queen Anne livingroom chairs...:roll:just took the easy way out and got slipcovers for them...

[Elaine]

Its never really bothered me before, mostly because Winston was never what you would call a destructive cat, neither were Woody and Mutley and I have always had second hand sofa's up till now.
The Diva has always been what I like to call different LOL.

[alexgirl73]

Hmmm, different! That's one word you could use for her I suppose, LOL!!!!!

[Elaine]

Have got my cat attract litter, so wait and see:D
She is getting a bit better though and now manages to poo in the tray 3 or 4 times a week now instead of avoiding it altogether.
Cannt help thinking that its all tied in with her simply wanting to assert her authority in the house and be top cat.
When I look back at all the notes I have taken from when Winston was alive to the present day, thats all I can come up with.
She has given poor Bernie a few good kicking over the last few weeks too and he now seems to be settling into the position of underdog.
Will keep watching and monitoring the situation while I try the cat attract and see what happens next.

[dandysmom]

Good luck, Elaine; eagerly awaiting the progress report!!

[alexgirl73]

Let's hope this works Elaine! Fingers crossed for you!

[Elaine]

This isnt about Eva and her pooping habbits but I wanted to share this new revelation.
For the first time EVER, Eva sat on my lap, by her own free will, and stayed there for around 30 minutes, purring like a happy tractor while being stroked.:D :D
Eva has never been a lap cat, she has only ever used your legs as a spring board, jumping on and off very quickly. She will lie on my chest at night when I am in bed.