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charliebubs's Avatar
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Cats owned: Ragdoll, 2 Siamese & a Balinese
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12-11-2006, 04:22 AM   #1

New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


Hi all,

Thank you for all your kind comments on my other thread. Abi had indeed had her kittens, but not without drama.

After my last posting, her labour went on for about 14 hours with no kittens, but she wasn't really straining and wasn't in distress. I made several calls to the local emergency vets during that time, who were great and reassured me. When I woke at 6am yesterday morning there were still no kittens and she had had some bloody discharge during the night.

I called the emergency vets again and was advised to wait until my regular vets opened at 8am and call them as they may want to induce her. By the time 8am came she was in the full throws of labour again and the contractions were coming less than every two minutes. After about half an hour of this, and no kittens, I called the regular vets and was asked to bring her in.

In the time it took me to get dressed, she had the first kitten - which was unfortunately stillborn. This was quickly followed by the second kitten, which was alive. Abi (mother cat) made no attempt to remove the second kitten from its sac, so I did this and severed the umbilical cord. I think she was distressed about the first dead kitten, but I wasn't sure whether removing it would make her more distressed.

I rang my dad for assistance and together we got Abi down to the vets in her kittening box. She had another kitten in the car and again I had to get it out of its sac. The vets then cut this umbilical cord. This kitten was alive.

By now she was pretty exhausted & we weren't sure if she still had more kittens. She was accepting the two live kittens, washing them and letting them try to nurse, although they didn't actually suckle.

She was then given an ultrasound which showed that there were still more kittens. After a hormone injection her contractions started again and she gave birth to the fourth kitten, which again was sadly stillborn. The vet staff did all they could, but it was lifeless.

She then seemed to give up again. She was exhausted, not that interested in her kittens any more and seemed to just want to sleep.

Another ultrasound showed that there was still a kitten inside her and it was alive. She was given another hormone injection, but after 15 mins that hadn't induced her so it was decided that she would need a ceasarian.

She was whisked off for the c-section. The final kitten came out with a heartbeat, but unfortunately didn't live long. The vet staff said that they did all they could for this little kitten too, but it was struggling to breathe. By this time her labour had been going on about 20 hours.

So, we are now home with two kittens!

Abi was very groggy after her op initially, so the vets gave me some formula to feed the kittens, which I have done. They don't seem very enthusiastic, but I have managed to get them to take some and have also cleaned their rear ends.

Abi will now go in with them and lie there for them to suckle, but the kittens haven't suckled so far. My question now is how to encourage them to do so????? Abi is willing and I have tried everything I can think of to attavh them to a nipple, but they don't seem to know what they're doing. Is this normal? They are now about 12 hours old.

Abi also has stitches across her belly now from the c-section (and she was spayed at the same time at my request) and the kittens keep getting their tiny, little claws stuck in them when they are trying to crawl across her belly.

I know this is a tremendously long post - but any advice would be appreciated. At the moment I'm trying to feed them formula every 2 hours to make sure that they are eating something and keeping warm (hence why I'm up at 3.20am!). Abi does go in with them, but it'd not all that voluntarily. Once she's in there she will lay down and let them try to nurse, but she doesn't really go in there off her own back - even when they are crying for her.

I look forward to getting any tips please!!!!!!!!!

Charlie
xx



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Elaine's Avatar
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12-11-2006, 09:13 AM   #2

Re: New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


Oh Charlie, I am so sorry Abi lost 3 of her kittens and that you are having problems getting the other 2 to suckle from her. I am also sorry I have no experience of this or any good advice to give you.
I am sure Smudgley or some of the others may be able to offer you some help.
In the mean time I have everything crossed that everything will be fine for Abi and the 2 kittens. xxx



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Elaine's Avatar
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12-11-2006, 09:57 AM   #3

Re: New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


http://www.fabcats.org/handrearing.html
Dont know if this will help any Charlie xxx



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smudgley's Avatar
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12-11-2006, 10:49 AM   #4

Re: New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


Yesterday I had been thinking about her. I'm glad she's home & ok, but sorry to hear about the problems. I would be interested to know more about her background (just for info) as it's really quite rare for cats to have problems like this during labour & C/S in cats are quite rare too (although certain pedigrees tend to have a higher % chance of needing a C/S)
I've had one cat that gave birth & didn't chew off the cords / eat the placentas, she was a 8 month old feral & had 5 kittens in a garden & was so scared she just left them all in a pile by her, all their cords got tangled up around the kittens legs & because this cut off their blood supply, only 2 of them made it to be 24hrs old. Mom was then caught & brought into my cat pen. She was so scared, she was as still as a statue & didn't bother with the kittens at all for nearly 24hrs. She would curl up so tight & rigid, the kits had no chance of getting underneath her to suckle. I didn't supplement them, but was getting to the point where I thought I may have to hand rear / or foster them onto another mom. But slowly, over the following few days she statred to relax, she would lie on her side & let the kittens feed, she then started to clean them & was actually quite a good mom. I guess she was in shock because of the whole process. But from a mom who was scared & not got a clue-she turned into a caring mom who reared the lovliest kittens...... My point being she appeared to have no interest, but with time was very good.

Having a C/S can have an effect on the mom bonding, but that's usually because the hormones that are released during labour & the birthing process make moms body understand she's having kittens and the time the birth takes, encourages mom to bond with them & look after them. By having a C/S the natural process of the kittens coming down the birth canal doesn't happen,the cat just goes to sleep & wakes up with babies & after an anasthetic that can be hard to cope with. Also a very quick labour with no early stages, so just straight into giving birth & having them quickly can also leave the mom in shock as the body has had no time to prepare for the birth. At least your cat was in labour for a long time, so this means her body has had chance to realise what's happening & the fact that she had some of the kittens naturally is good too.

I had a dog recently that had a C/S for a single pup,didn't know what on earth this little "creature" was when she woke up & didn't want him near her, growling & being generally quite unsettled. We persevered hoping it was just the shock, but the same behaviour continued for 3 days. then the penny dropped & she took to him & now 6 weeks on, he's a lovely big roly-poly pup. It just took the bitch a few days to accept him, again because she's had no natural oxytocin released during the birth.

how old is she?
how long has she been with you?
is this her first litter?
do you know her history?
was she a found pregnant cat?

I think all you can do is keep her in a quiet place away from other animals, keep her warm & keep encouraging the kittens to feed. Try not to handle them any more than you have to & you could stroke mom every time before you pick them up so that you are putting your scent on mom as well as the babies.You need to try & get them to suckle because
A)the more you feed them, the less hungry they will be & won't want to suckle,
B)the less she's feeds them the less chance her milk will have to come in, beacuse the suckling stilumates milk production.
But obviously they need nutrition so will need feeding.
Another thing to remember is that they will need stimulating to go to the toilet, ideally by mom but if she is not keen, then by using a damp piece of cotton wool gently on their genitals & bottoms.
If we have a dog that is not keen, we smear honey on the babies bottoms to encourage them to lick the area, never done it with a cat though.
Let us know how you get on & good luck.



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Almost a Veteran Member
 
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12-11-2006, 10:56 AM   #5

Re: New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


Charlie - where do you have mum cat?



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Sweet's Avatar
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12-11-2006, 11:41 AM   #6

Re: New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


((((((hugs to Mum Cat, her Kittens and You)))))) x



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Mags's Avatar
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12-11-2006, 12:06 PM   #7

Re: New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


Charlie, so sorry to hear Abi lost three of her kittens and has had such a rough time. You have done marvelously with your care throughout.

That is an excellent post by Smudgley above, I hope you find it helps and reassures you .......



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Elaine's Avatar
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12-11-2006, 07:06 PM   #8

Re: New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


JUST TO TRY TO KEEP YOU ALL UPDATED ON CHARLIE, ABI AND THE KITTENS.

I have tried not to interfere too much, but I'm worried about the kittens then getting no milk at all. Abi will stay in with them for a while if I put her in the kittening box, but not for really long periods. She was in there for 2 hours this morning and I left them well alone, but am pretty sure there was no suckling going on. I think Abi is trying to get them to feed from her when she's in there, but they haven't seemed to get the hang of it. I've tried to help them find the nipples, but they just won't latch on. Even when I've been hand feeding them, they don't really suckle I have to gently squeeze it into their mouths and then they drink the milk.
I don't really know what else to try.
I don't want to interfere too much, but I don't want them to starve either.
(I have also been helping them eliminate, as mum isn't doing that either)
Charlie



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charliebubs's Avatar
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Cats owned: Ragdoll, 2 Siamese & a Balinese
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12-11-2006, 09:39 PM   #9

Re: New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


Update!!!!
This afternoon Abi has become much more responsive to the kittens. She has spent much more time with them and cleaned them thoroughly. One of the kittens has also grasped the idea of sucking and now won't leave her alone!!! The other one is still not suckling though, and I've still been supplementing him with bottle feed just to make sure that he gets something to eat.
I hope this is the right thing to do?!?!?
At least Abi seems to have caught on that they are her babies now and she knows what to do.




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12-11-2006, 09:45 PM   #10

Re: New kittens!! How to get them to nurse please?!


Sounds like everything is going just fine.
Well done.
Hope things continue toimprove.



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