I'm annoyed

[yola]

Luke - when you handed the kittens over did you have a verbal undertaking from them that they would spay at 6 months or did you get them to sign something?

If you can't reason with these people maybe you (or someone on your behalf if you don't feel confident of doing it) can get a bit heavy and cite the fact that they renaged on a verbal agreement and to that end you are calling on your right to have the cat back to have her neutered.

Failing that speak to CP - maybe they can help or even contact these people directly.

I can understand your anger I would be furious too (currently trying to get my stupid step-son and his daft partner to understand they need to neuter their little cat before he causes havoc amongst the female cat population of the estate where they live).

[Juli]

I can understand how you feel, but you weren't to know that this series of events would happen, you did what you thought was right at the time, which is probably why you're so angry now, you probably feel a bit duped. I've got no solution for you i'm afraid but please keep us posted on any furthur happenings, hopefully you can talk this 'friend' round to letting you help in some way.

[charliebubs]

Originally Posted by yola

Luke - when you handed the kittens over did you have a verbal undertaking from them that they would spay at 6 months or did you get them to sign something?

If you can't reason with these people maybe you (or someone on your behalf if you don't feel confident of doing it) can get a bit heavy and cite the fact that they renaged on a verbal agreement and to that end you are calling on your right to have the cat back to have her neutered.

.

Unfortunately, Yola, even if there was a written agreement it isn't worth the paper it's written on. There is no enforceability behind these "contracts". I know that us breeders ensure that our kittens' owners sign these contracts, but the reality is that they are worthless.

Personally, I'm hoping to opt for the early neutering of my kittens. I just need to speak to my vet about it again. They have been reluctant previously, but there is lots of research out there that early neutering is fine and has been used in America and Australia for many, many years.

I know that's a bit off topic..........but as the owner of another cat who had an accidental litter I don't feel able to make comment on the other aspects of Luke's post.

[random]

Hi Luke.

For obvious reasons as well you know, i'm not going to make too many comments on here about this situation but I do believe the RSPCA may (I say may as I have very little faith in them at all) do a home visit and try and explain to these people the importance of having her spayed if you cannot get them to understand.

Charliebubs
Although such contracts have very little backbone I am aware of a couple of cases in which dogs have been retrieved by their breeders later down the line because of such exploits of the puppy contracts, so all in all it is better to have them in place than not and for my kittens I had them in place and just the threat of taking action seemed to be enough as not everyone is aware that they usually hold very little substance in court and if threatened with court action (and legal fees/costs etc) then this is often enough to get them to abide by the contract without having to take it further.

[Patch]

Damn
For what its worth, when I`ve done hand rearing of abandoned kittens and have been given resposibility for homing them, I did so with a contract which i had checked over by a solicitor to make sure it was enforceable and on one occasion, [ a boy ], did have cause to enforce it and won, I was able to retrieve him - he as`nt neutered as per contract and he was retreived on those grounds for breach of contract.
A verbal contract is harder to enforce but in the eyes of the law is still legally binding. Personally I would pursue it.

Had I been lucky enough to have had her though, [ the ones who have her clearly not realising having a pet companion is a privilege not a `right` ! ], she would have been spayed at 12 weeks, no question, [ and if I did`nt have the money at the time I`d have sold my mother if necessary ! ok just a turn of phrase but makes the point I think ], so none of this situation would be happening now, [ 12 weeks being the accepted timescale now as ferals are spayed at this age before being re-released and having been involved in feral round-ups and doing post op care then release I know myself that they are absolutely fine at this age ].
Frankly though, cat spay is so low cost if they could`nt afford that what would they have done if she had needed a caesarean and what will they do if the babies need vet care over the next few weeks

You must be gutted to have been so badly let down by a home you thought you could trust

[Kim]

Originally Posted by smudgley

.and so the cycle goes on...... these 7 kittens will have kittens..........and their kittens will have kittens.............and thei kittens will have kittens...............

Sadly so true.......

Originally Posted by Kazz

Hello Luke

You are in effect being a convert, you are preaching to them “do as I say not as I did” as BC has said when people feel under attack they become defensive from your post it sounds like the battle lines between you and the people who own Bella’s kitten (for that I what she still is even though she has kittens herself) have been drawn.

You need to stand back and possibly use a go between to try to get them to have her spayed, but the thing is the ball is rolling Bella had kittens her kitten has had kittens (numbers do not matter) and so the number of unwanted cats goes on gathering speed……this is why responsible people gets their cats neutered I know you had other things going on and that’s why Bella was not done but they could say the same.
You can’t say your problems were/are greater than theirs, so they let the kittens go to homes, and one does not get done either and so it continues - you feel bad I imagine maybe more guilty/embarrassed as much as anything because you trusted them to get her done.
But what goes around comes around, and they haven’t and because of a friend of a friend you know there are kittens out there that you are responsible for. You won’t know where they go or what happens to them so……….will that matter in a year they could have kittens you will never know……………………you should have taken the step to spay Bella when you had the chance……………………

You had 12 homes lined up for Bella’s kittens can you not try to find some for these, shutting the door after the horse has bolted is no good. But you are trying to do something it seems good for you, but if they choose to do nothing all you can do is remember how you feel no when you next get a kitten. Better to prevent than cure.

Kazz has mirrored perfectly my feelings too. You know how I felt initially Luke, so I'm not going to rub salt into the wound now. I'm sorry you have been so let down. No matter how hard we try and say we have found perfect homes for kittens, sadly, as you have found out, this is not always the case and so the cycle continues.

[charliebubs]

Originally Posted by random

Hi Luke.


Charliebubs
Although such contracts have very little backbone I am aware of a couple of cases in which dogs have been retrieved by their breeders later down the line because of such exploits of the puppy contracts, so all in all it is better to have them in place than not and for my kittens I had them in place and just the threat of taking action seemed to be enough as not everyone is aware that they usually hold very little substance in court and if threatened with court action (and legal fees/costs etc) then this is often enough to get them to abide by the contract without having to take it further.

Absolutely, Kelly. I would never sell one of my kittens without a contract and I know that some people are unaware of the fact that they are not strictly enforceable.

In fact, my contracts say that "This is a legally binding document" but I'm still not convinced that they would stand up in court.

The problem that many people find is that they do not know when the kittens get rehomed/pregnant etc. Although you can do your best to keep in touch with new owners you cannot control what they do. Some people can put on a very good act and say all the right things to get a kitten from you.....only to turn out to be a byb

We can only do as much as is possible to protect our kittens and then to an extent it's out of our hands. This is another reason why I'm in favour of early neutering. I'd rather keep my kittens longer, have them neutered and have that extra peace of mind.

[tilly]

Have you got another friend who can buy her off the friend who has her and then give her back to you with kittens in tow. It might just work as it wouldn't be you asking for her it would be someone else so it would mean them backing down.

Or you could offer to pay over the odds for the lot of them. It might just work.

Best of luck

Tilly

[Kay]

Charlie, you have seen my contract. I have had reason to see a solicitor about it, when I took bac Eddie and Jilly, and I was told that it was legally binding and would stand up in court in my case. Luckily it didn't go that far but I have the comfort of knowing it is legal.

[Kazz]

The thing is though Luke thought he could trust this person and it has proven to be untrue. This was not a stranger he sold/gave the kitten to but someone he thought he could trust to do the "right" thing, like the other owners.

It has proved to me where I have strong views/opinions on something like this I would "write" out a contact and get the other party to sign it, rather than be faced with this senario.

I feel for you Luke as I imagine it is the fact they did not keep their word to a friend (as you were) as much as the litter of kittens that is so disheartening.

I hope you get it sorted.