Is 5 litters too much? (off topic posts from GD thread)

[borderdawn]

has a maximum of 5 litters one every year

Its a lot, too much for my liking. There is a retired one by me, a black Lab, she is 8yrs and has had 4 litters, she looks about 15 and has an undercarriage that almost drags on the floor, poor thing.

This lady also has a GSD that she walked but it failed its training, she says GD are not wanting to use GSD's any more, is thsi true Smudgely?

[random]

Originally Posted by borderdawn

Its a lot, too much for my liking. There is a retired one by me, a black Lab, she is 8yrs and has had 4 litters, she looks about 15 and has an undercarriage that almost drags on the floor, poor thing.

This lady also has a GSD that she walked but it failed its training, she says GD are not wanting to use GSD's any more, is thsi true Smudgely?

I had no idea they had so many litters, rather a lot for my liking also. Are they really that short on brood bitches that they have to have up to 5 litters per bitch?

Sorry to hear about Tarn Dawn.

[Fran]

Originally Posted by smudgley

We are not short at all on bitches Random.
But 4 / 5 litters is what we consider a reasonable number.
Why how many litters do you think they should have. Don't forget they are being bred for a working home, not for the fun of it or for money as lots of litters are.

I agree, 4/5 litters is absolutely fine. I disagree that there is money to made in breeding litters though! Maddie's Optigen testing has just cost me £150 and her recent yearly eye cert £30, Ruby's hip and elbow testing has cost me £300 Maddie's latest stud fee has cost me £350, all in the last couple of months and I have no puppies yet and may not have any?? I was in negative equity with Tikka's last litter, stud fee + cost of raising litter, feeding pups and mum etc and C section, 5 puppies born??

[Fran]

Originally Posted by smudgley

Fran I didn't say there was any money to be made in dog breeding. I have bred dogs myself so I know how expensive it is, but what I did say is that lots of litters are bred for money which is absolutely the truth.

How can litters be bred for money if there is no money to be made? If you have a large litter with few problems then yes you may make a little profit. If you do then you are lucky but it's just ploughed back into the dogs for their next set of health tests, vet bills etc.. In my breed, poorly bred dogs are common place often with no health tests. When I started out I intended to address this issue and have done so and have bred in my eyes my 'perfect' puppy. One that has 0/0 elbow scores 0/0 hip scores is PRA Optigen clear by parentage has a current clear eye cert, is extremely biddable and shows bags of promise in working trials and is hoping to compete later this year. For me, that is what I only ever dreamt of doing, for it to become a reality means everything, that's why I breed, not for any possible financial gain

[Fran]

Fair enough! In support of what you are saying, I do agree that GD are being bred for a very good reason and I don't think 4/5 litters per breeding bitch is exceptional in any way. Of course each bitch is different and has to be assesed on it's own merits but I see no problem at all with 4/5 litters per breeding bitch being the GD policy

[Fran]

Originally Posted by smudgley

Have deleted all my posts in this thread.

Why Smudgely?

[smudgley]

I deleted the posts as I didn't like the title of the branched thread. "Is 5 litters too many" I know that was the topic of conversation, but felt with that title it seemed like I was justifying what we do & unproffessional of me to do so on a public forum.

Most of what I said is still there as quoted.

That's all.

PS - I stand by / agree with everything I said though.

[borderdawn]

I agree, 4/5 litters is absolutely fine.

I dont, poor ******s, breeding machines.

I disagree that there is no money to made in breeding litters though!

Maddie's Optigen testing has just cost me £150 and her recent yearly eye cert £30, Ruby's hip and elbow testing has cost me £300 Maddie's latest stud fee has cost me £350, all in the last couple of months and I have no puppies yet and may not have any?? I was in negative equity with Tikka's last litter, stud fee + cost of raising litter, feeding pups and mum etc and C section, 5 puppies born??

Breeders who breed a lot always say that Fran. (not saying you do) Most show people would never ever consider breeding even 3 litters from a bitch let alone 5!

You quote one off fees there Fran of £850 and that was for 2 different dogs. Say 10 puppies at what? 550-600 pounds each, not bad really. If you want to go further, say 4 litters, averaging 8 per litter...........!! and thats per dog! People do NOT breed puppies for nothing. Most will breed to keep one for themselves, I totally agree with this, many do not, thats when its for profit alone, couldnt possibly be for any other reason.

[Jac]

Saying that Dawn I agree with you. (sorry people)

Put it this way if there is no money in breeding then why are there some breeders with 9/10 even more breeding bitches? I know of one personally that has so many dogs she has a skip in her garden for all the poo. Of course there is money to be made or people wouldn't do it.

I also found out another thing. If a female pup is born and dies it's still regisered. Then another female has a litter too many and the pups are registered to the dead female. Makes you cringe what goes on.

[borderdawn]

See, take a "breeder" in my breed. He has 3 bitches, 2 of those bitches have both had 3 litters, the max most show people would breed from a bitch. (2 bitches are litter sisters) He registered 6 puppies in 3 litters, and two 4's and a 5. Thats 31 puppies at £500 each. He kept two to my knowledge thats 29 puppies sold. £14.500!! take out £1000 for rearing etc... £13.500!!! PROFIT!!!