Persian Cats, then and now, your thoughts..

[Snoof]

Originally Posted by dinahsmum

Compared with the dog world, I think cats have been fortunate up to now in (mostly) not being bred to extreme and picking up associated health problems.
I hope this doesn't change/go further. The sphynx and the extreme flat-noses are far enough, cats don't need long legs/short legs, big jaws, rasta hair, wrinkly skin etc etc etc.

I agree. I think the success of extreme breeding is largely comparable to the success of such dogbreeds as labradoodles and what have you - nobody particularly cares about the cat itself but it's something to "brag" about I suppose.

I don't mean to say that any of the people who've posted their cats so far in this thread don't care about their cats - I mean that some breeders lose sight of what a breeder is supposed to be selling. Healthy cats with good temperament. I can't imagine having gunky eyes and bad breathing (or a mouth that's stuck open, bless that poor little soul) even do you any good rather than harm in the show ring. So why do it? Why not research genetics properly? I would much, much rather someone breed a crossbreed (say you breed a Persian with a Ragdoll, then breed the resulting cat with a purebred Persian... diluting the lines somewhat can be good) and fetch less money for them than have them purposely breed cats with health problems that cost more for the owner and will end in some form of heartbreak.

I'm sorry - I'm sure they're all lovely cats and I myself care far more for the personality of my cats than for their looks (although that does not explain why the extraordinarily stunning ones always find their way to my door ). I also think, while I'm not fond of flat-faced cats myself as far as their faces go, that all the cats shown have lovely coats, and that every cat has some physical point where they're exceedingly beautiful - and if not, then they're sure to have a unique and loveable character. And I believe 100% that personality, not looks, should be the basis of your relationship with your cats.

But I also believe that the breeding community is rife with people who breed for looks (and subsequently for money) and who disregard the health problems that will invariably arise when you overbreed.

How many of us have purebreeds who need a different diet from our moggies because of their sensitive tummies? I accept that a lot of purebreeds have sensitive tummies - what I don't accept is that this is a necessary consequence of breeding.

The main thing that bothers me about it is that we have the overbreeding of dogs, which is at this point worse than that of cats. We've seen what happens when you overbreed. So why haven't we learned?

And I'm afraid the answer is, as always... Money. The saddest and ugliest part of human society.

Once again, all the cats shown look like lovely little characters. I'm not so small-minded as to let my aesthetic dislike of flat faces cloud my vision of what a cat should be, which has nothing to do with what it should look like. But I do find it absolutely disgraceful that people will purposely breed animals without a moment's consideration for the quality of life they're imparting on them.

[dandysmom]

I have strong opinions on this: very much dislike what breeders have done to breeds like Persians and Siamese...it is simply not fair to propagate animals with health problems!! And aesthetically, I simply do not find extreme flat faced Persians or skinny tubular Siamese at all attractive. But, what wins at the shows is what they're going to strive for.....pity...

[PurpleJackdaw]

As with any animal I dont think any should be bred that will suffer health problems due to the way people want them to look ,In America they seem to be alot more extreme in the way they want to breed for certain looks without worrying too much about how it will affect an animals health or quality of life ,just look at "twisty cats" that some people are choosing to breed

[Booktigger]

I have never been a fan of PErsians, and part of it is their face, but there are some on here that I find stunning, and I suppose that could be down to misconceptions on my part. I don't believe in breeding any animals that can have serious health probs, or any that wouldn't be able to survive in the wild.

[Hreow]

Originally Posted by Booktigger

... or any that wouldn't be able to survive in the wild.

That would be any and all house-cats, then. Can't see Rover surviving for more than a day or two at best, he's such a baby at times. I agree that they have to be "functional cats" and I know what you mean even if I can't find the precise words to fit it either. Not without using a dictionary-and-a-half. : /

[random]

I have a siamese and when I chose her, well when I was looking for a breeder, I tried to find someone who bred siamese more like how they used to be, not to over exagerated. When I first fell in love with the breed it was some years ago, and it's obvious the "new" type siamese are a lot different to what I fell in love with. She has no health problems so far and is a very lively happy and healthy girl. She is very slender and of course, not to everyones taste, but I think she is beautiful.

[Kay]

I have thought long and hard about posting a reply on this thread being a breeder and the way people have been slated on this forum lately.

I agree there are some breeders out there, and I use the word breeder loosely for these people, who do breed purely for money with no concern as to what their lines are throwing. I have to point out however that not all ultra persians have problems with breathing, eating or their eyes and that quite a few of the less typy persians do. Take mine for instance. I have 9 persians, as many of you know, 4 of which are ultra and the other 5 the older type. I will take each cat in turn so bear with me. Firstly Tate he is ultra doesn't have problems breathing and certainly no problems eating his eyes need cleaning once or twice a week. He is a Champion and did extremely well in the show ring. He is now retired.

Next there is Tilly not ultra and again no problems at all. She was not shown due to her shady coat.

Kisses is ultra and needs a great deal of care with her eyes but no other problems. They need cleaning several times a day for this reason her breeder neutered her and I bought her for showing. This act shows there are responsible breeders out there that are trying to keep the type but get rid of health issues. She did really well in the shows and made Premier. At present she is out of coat but I hope to show her again. The following picture shows that with the right care she does not suffer with her eyes.

Leila is ultra has no problems other than a weekly clean of her eyes and was also shown until her eye colour faded. She too made Champion.

Jilly, Phoebe and Eddie are siblings albeit from different litters. Neither of them are ultra have no problems breathing and eating and Jilly has lovely clear eyes the other two do have runny eyes that need daily attantion. This trait appears to have come from the mothers side as Tate has fathered kittens by other girls and this problem has never happened before only when mated to Tilly and only with these two. This is not bad considering they have had a total of 12 kittens together. Tilly has know retired from breeding. Unfortunately I only have a pic of Jilly loaded on photobucket. I showed Jilly once and she got her CC but since then her coat has shaded, Phoebe doesn't like travelling so I won't show her and Eddie is like his mother far too shaded.

Angel is somewhere in the middle on type. I did show her a few times as a kitten but she hated it and I won't put a cat through that if they aren't totally at ease. She has no problems breathing, eating but does need her eyes cleaning daily. Sorry no photo of Angel.

Lastly I have Cory who is definitely ultra. He has no problems breathing and definitely no eating problems, he is a bit of a pig to be truthful . His eyes need a clean once or twice a week and are definitely not a problem. As most of you know I am showing Cory at the moment with a great deal of success.

Therefore I have 1 out of 4 ultra type cats that have bad eyes but 3 out of 5 non-ultra that have bad eyes. Maybe I am lucky but I think this proves that with careful breeding you can get the ultra type without the serious eye problems. I would not continue with a line that was showing any of the mentioned health problems and all reputable breeders are of the same mind. We are here not to make money but to breed lovely trouble free cats with excellent temperments of which the Persian excels. I understand people have opinions on what is a nice looking cat but I argue with anyone who says these pic are not of beautiful healthy cats.

Sorry about the length of this posting.

[Rosie]

Compared with the dog world, I think cats have been fortunate up to now in (mostly) not being bred to extreme and picking up associated health problems.

Totally agree. I love dogs and have seen the before and after photos of such breeds as the bulldog (to me the dog equivalent of the persian). The bulldog used to be much slimmer, have longer legs and not have the squashed face. Bulldogs cannot give birth naturally anymore because of breathing problems etc. Lets hope this does not happen to the persian.