Cat colour genetics - question for Sam

[Fran]

Sam, how does the blue gene work in cat colour genetics? For example if you had a blue tom and a blue queen, what odds would there be of the kittens being blue and what other colours could be produced? Is blue a recessive gene like chocolate is in labs? Thanks Sam, I find colour genetics so fascinating :lol:

Oh and out of interest what determines eye colour - amber eyes x with green eyes would produce?

[shonedek]

Oh PK i love questions like this,thank you sooooooooooo much.
Right here goes,its actually quite easy and i will try to explain the best i can from Persian breeding.
Heres the basics
First Blue is a Dilute of Black
Cream is Dilute of Red
White is Dominante
If you put 2 blues together you only get Blue 50%of kits will be boys
If you put a Blue with Black you will get Black only and 50% will be boys,
However if the Black was bred from a Blue parent then you get Black and Blue,25%will be blue and boys ,25%will be Black and boys and the same for the girls.
The only other way to breed for Blue is to use a Torti Dominant and Dilute and these will produce Blue as well as Red and Cream.
Just to throw a liitle confussion in this to if one parent is a Colourpoint carrier they can have solid blue kitts and Colourpoint in same litter.

Eyes is even simple as Persians only have Copper eyes so that all you get the only colour to have different eye colour is White which can have Blue eyes,copper eyes or odd eyes(one of each)There is no way of telling when these colours for eyes will be as its basicly down to luck .
Putting to Blue eyed Whites together(which by the way im totally against and have never done this)dosnt mean you get Blue eyed White babies
I dont know what AmberXGreen would produce as its somthing in persians that doesnt apply but a lot of that depends on what coat colour the kitten is

Hope this has helped a little,but there are so many factors to take into account,this is the basics,when you start going onto Bi-colour breeding thats a different thing

[PaulaB]

I have a tabby (brown and cream) she the 2 kittens that came with her are black with a white tip on her tail, but she has the elegant body and face of a siamese. Socks is a stocky black and white boy mostly black but a white patch under his nose and a flash under his chin that goes to his stomach and all the way down that, with white socks on his back paws. How come Queenie had such different kittens

[shonedek]

First question are they pedigree?If not then mum/dad can and will throw anything because of whats behind her,this is the joys of genetics and you can only roughly predict from pedigree lines.
Black is a dominate colour and tabby genetics i know nothing about.
I have a white girl who has had 2 litters,she was put to the same stud both times.First litter were all Blue and second litter were all white.I know she can have ,white,blue ,cream but they may not be from one mating
its very un predictable ,as you know what colours you can have but it dosnt mean you will get them in every litter,its down to luck that the colour you want is born

[Moli]

I didn't realise so much went into breeding cats..Its amazing how you can remember all that..

[Mags]

I found it very interesting reading (as always from Sam) but I find it very difficult to understand all that.......I'm better off sticking to one cat and no breeding :roll:

[PaulaB]

Mine are not pure breeds just moggies, but Tippy has the look of a siamese the chattyness and the wallpaper ripping habit. She can't do that ow because the dogs snitches on her. Mind you has anyone else got a sock hunting cat?

[shonedek]

Thank Mags :oops: but this is really just part of breeding.i love it as im not a pureist.some breeders will only breed blue to blue and black to black.I did when i started but you knew exactly what colour you would get every time and wanted somthing more interesting which is why i have Bi-clour and solid
well as you know i have bred for years but this year im doing a first which i have no clue what i will get.This is what im doing and why.
I have a Blue colourpoint girl who will be put to a Black/white van,resulting offspring no idea.The reson why im doing this is i would love an odd eyed Bi-colour.Because all colourpoints have Blue eyes this gene will hopfully be passed on to kitten.The idea would be to keep a Bi-colour kitten from this breeding and put it back to a white who would carry gene for Blue eyes and Odd eyes.You are talking quite a few years down the line and an awful lot of luck but this is the start.They are not recongnised in this country and if i was to ever bred one would have to go on a special register.
They have them in American and they are awsome


PaulaB that explains why your kittens were so different being moggy parents they could carry everything including the kitchen sink :)

[Mags]

That sounds like it's going to be an exciting venture Sam......and imagine what you would be like waiting and wondering for the birth. I wish you all the best and hope it comes off for you.

[shonedek]

well as i said this is going to be a long time work but its exciting as not quite knowing what we will get.I talk a lot to a cattery in America who are a big insperation and help and were looking at bringing one over end of this year or begining of next.

[Mags]

It would obviously have to go into quarantine would it?

[Moli]

Does that mean.Sam..If you breed two certain colours together..you will more or less know the percentage of boys and girls....

[shonedek]

yes it will do Mags but as there are no breeders here it does make it very difficult.

Yes you know the ratio of Boys/Girls but you could get whole litter of one sex.
for example i know that if i put a Black to a Bluecream and i have a Red born,i know straight away its a boy as no Red girls are possable from this coloured breeding

[Moli]

So what colours would you need to produce a red girl?

[Mags]

:lol: this is like 20 questions for you Sam.....hope you don't mind? :shock:

[Moli]

Its fascinating..I have had cats for donkey's years..Always gone to a breeder to buy one as a pet.I didn't realise how involved it was...Merlins breeder said something about a gene pool, me being me, didn't want to appear stupid, so didn't ask about it....Wish I had now...

[Mags]

I agree, Moli, it's very fascinating and Sam certainly sounds like she knows what she's doing...

[shonedek]

well the only way to get Red girl is by both parents being Red or you can get Red from red xTortie dominant and dilute or Red x Cream.These will give you Red boys and girls.

no i dont mind all these questions,i love this sort of thing as its not as easy as you think

[Moli]

Have you been breeding long?and sorry one last question does the same apply to dogs?

[shonedek]

never bred my dogs as yet but hope to this year,i had Persian for over 20 years but its been the last 16 years that ive cocertrated more on them
I really dont mind these questions .I to find it fun to answer as most people aint to bothered

[Mags]

I find it really interesting as I didn't know so much was involved.

[Fran]

Thanks Sam, it is much more complicated than colour coat in labs :? But basically back to the original question, blue to blue only produces blue? I had a slight understanding that you could get a lilac from such a mating?

[shonedek]

it dosnt have to be complicated,if you just want Persian kitten just stick 2 together but if your after certain colour/traits it does become more involved.Thats why i like how i breed because i never quite know what to expect.Tash has had 3 litters ,the first 2 she went to a Red Bi-colour boy(dominante) and had Red/Cream Bi-colours.This time she has gone to a solid Cream (remember its dilute) and she has had Black (dominante) and Calico (dilute).It was a surprise as i expected Reds/Creams

[Fran]

:? It is very complicated Sam. I don't know how you remember it all. Labrador colour coat is so simple. :?

[shonedek]

you can only get lilac from a chocolate breeding as lilac is dilute of chocolate.This is a relitavly new colour and everyone seems to be doing them,personally not my fav colour

[bobbie3917]

and you have to remember that every breed has its own rules just like dog colour genetics do

and i am like you Sam, when i have bred the dogs i have also know what colour the pups will be before they are born (red and white) but in the next litter we hope to have later this year it will be a mixed litter and i cant wair