Human/Animal Rights

[Phoenix]

What do you think of human rights and do you think animals should have the same basic rights as humans?

[wilbar]

Well I'd not be happy if my cats & dogs had the vote:lol:

On a serious note though it's an interesting question. IMO there's a fine line to be trod with allowing animals the right to be free from suffering, free to act out normal behaviours, free to enjoy good health ~ & then expecting them to live in a world so dominated by the human race.

And I think there's a big difference in how the human race treats domesticated & pet animals on the one hand, & wild species on the other. Some of the greatest harm is done by human expoitation of natural habitats & exploiting animals for our own commercial use.

I'd like to see a world that allowed animals a huge chunk of basic human rights, but we can't even get that right for the huge overpopulation by our own species ~ what chance animals?

[angieh]

Yes, IMO let's start with very basic things like working towards treating animals without cruelty - speak out about factory farming.

Unfortunately in our straightened economic climate, buying cheaper types of food doesn't help support those who strive to produce humanely reared products.

Please look at the Compassion in World Farming website:-
http://www.ciwf.org.uk/help_us/take_action/default.aspx

I make no apologies if this is too political!

[wilbar]

I went to the Compassion in World Farming annual conference a few years ago when it was held in London ~ a very interesting 2 days! The topic for the conference was "are animals sentient beings?"

The one thing has lived with me from that conference was that all these incredibly intelligent scientists & researchers came on to speak about all the experiments, work & reseach that has been done to prove that animals are indeed sentient beings, that they have emotions, feel pain, stress & happiness etc. They wanted to prove to the world that we should treat animals with kindness because they are sentient beings.

One of the last speakers was Marc Bekoff ~ he strode onto the stage & said very clearly that of course animals have emotions, of course they feel pain, sadness, stress & happiness ~ all of us pet owners know this already. It shouldn't be down to scientists to prove this ~ it should be down to the doubters to prove otherwise!! And until they do, animals should be treated with kindness & compassion as their given right.

Never a truer word:)

[angieh]

Absolutely agree. That must have been some ending to the conference, wilbar!

The "scientific approach" seems to want proof absolute about some things that seem obvious to others who have learned through observation.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”. (Gandhi)

[Velvet.Tears]

I must say i'm not going to post the video but it was a government animal experiment that invilved a poor cat under the influence of LSD. I was shocked and extremely upset when I saw it, made me very angry.

I'm assuming Animal Rights have changed a lot since 1957 though...

[wilbar]

Absolutely agree. That must have been some ending to the conference, wilbar!

The "scientific approach" seems to want proof absolute about some things that seem obvious to others who have learned through observation.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”. (Gandhi)

It certainly was:D

There were some fantastic speakers at the conference & I'd highly recommend it if it ever comes to the UK again.

And Gandhi's words are very true ~ but unfortunately only go to show that there are not many "great" nations & that "moral progress" is patchy, faltering & lead by human greed.

[angieh]

Just to change tack slightly .....

Where do we stand on the destruction of insect pests - fleas, aphids, locusts and, thinking of EmmaG's recent post, mammals such as rats, mice and other rodents?

If I understand correctly, Buddhists revere all forms of life but personally I find it very hard to be kind to aphids on my vegetables or rats gnawing and fouling in my shed.

[wilbar]

I must say i'm not going to post the video but it was a government animal experiment that invilved a poor cat under the influence of LSD. I was shocked and extremely upset when I saw it, made me very angry.

I'm assuming Animal Rights have changed a lot since 1957 though...

I think I've seen the clip that you refer to ~ awful:cry: .

In my feline behaviour course we did quite a lot about the parts of the brain that are activated during predatory aggression. Initial research was conducted to see which parts of the brain are activated during aggression of any type ~ & the experiments were carried out on cats:cry:. I saw some horrific photos of cats with electrodes implanted in their brains.

The outcome was a bit of a surprise to the researchers as it was by using cats that they discovered that predatory aggression uses completely different neural pathways & parts of the brain than other forms of aggression. Predatory aggression was called "quiet biting attack" because there was no vocalisation or any activation of the brain parts associated with fear behaviours.

Cats have also been used a lot in understanding what happens to the brain during sleep & its different stages.

Much as I abhor experiments of this kind on any animals, we have learned a lot from these early studies.

[Velvet.Tears]

It absolutely broke my heart when I saw it I did just burts into tears and I would imagine that that cat did die after having that inside it.

[angieh]

I am thankful not to have seen that V.T - it would have upset me terribly I am sure.

[Velvet.Tears]

Believe me I feel like gouging my eyes out and my brain to forget about it, it is haunting me!

[Gladys]

Animals don't have a voice and will always be used by humans.

Changes can only happen from the top down, and the goverments respond to public pressure sometimes.

I'm a great believer in petitions. I like to sign an online petition every day. Imagine if everyone who loves animals signed a petition against their abuse, governments would have to sit up and take notice.

On a personal level, I think our own treatment of animals is the way forward too. This forum, for instance, values animals as individuals, and acknowledges their rights to the same considerations as most humans. As a new member here, that thought alone is very lifting to me.

[Brigoose]

Yes, I believe both should have equal rights.

As somebody who communicates with animals I can honestly say that really, the world would be a much better place if we all listened to them.