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wilbar
07-01-2011, 10:46 AM
I'll stick my head above the parapet & post an article as "food for thought" on human perceptions of the socialibility of domestic cats. Happy to receive any comments ~ I could have added a lot more but it was getting a bit long. I can provide more precise references if required.

Domestic Cats ~ Solitary or Social?

To many humans, cats appear to be solitary, independent creatures, content to walk alone, but “allowing” humans to live alongside them. Many people that work long hours or have busy social lives, will get a cat because a cat doesn’t “need” them, in the sense that a social creature like a dog does. A cat is perceived as being happy with it’s own company, does not need a lot of input from humans; so other than ensuring the cat has food, water & shelter, cats can largely be left to their own devices.

But is this really the case? Or is this the anthropocentric view of humans who can only perceive “sociability” as visual & verbal communication systems? Many owners of “dog-like” oriental breeds would probably dispute this view ~ their cats are chatty, needy & more social in the same way that dogs are. But these are the breeds in which human interference in breeding is more prevalent ~ what about the basic “moggy” or all the feral cats living in & around our towns & cities?

Scientific research in the 1990s is showing that cats are solitary creatures ~ feral cats choose to live in social groups.

Sociability of Felidae

The sociability depends on the behaviour of the females ~ if females congregate in groups they will be social, e.g. female leopards and tigers are solitary but female lions live, hunt and rear young in groups.

Paul Leyhausen (Austrian feline behaviourist) looked at solitary felines, but just because they effectively live solitary lives does not mean that they do not communicate with others of their species. Visual contact is not the only type of contact needed for communication or sociability. Felids also communicate using smell, sound or touch (rolling in smells). Therefore, to label leopards as solitary creatures is anthropocentric. Leopards have different ways of communicating and just because they use ways not normally used by humans, does not mean they are not valid means of communicating.

Dennis Turner and David MacDonald studied domestic cats and found that their hunting ranges overlapped more often than could happen by chance. Adult cat actions are generally tolerant of each other but most behavioural studies have concentrated on hunting behaviours and from this it has been assumed that cats are solitary creatures.

But feral cats congregate and live in social groups in a matrilineal social structure where:

• Daughters belong to the same social group as their mother plus grandmothers, aunts, sisters.

• They are tolerant and amicable towards each other

• They are co-operative with each other on many issues, e.g. rearing young, babysitting, mutual grooming.

• They are a spatially tight knit group.

Studies of Feral Cat Communities.

 In the early 1980s studies at a Japanese University refuse dump and dockyards showed 28 colonies of feral cats averaging groups of 2 to 11 cats per group (+ - 5 females). The studies were later expanded to show there were 23.5 cats per hectare and that cats may belong to more than one social group ~ similar to the feeding behaviour of domestic cats that may feed at more than one home!!

 Studies in Rome by Natoli showed a typical grouping of 24 to 39 cats in a group.

 Studies in Baltimore, USA, showed 7.4 cats per hectare.

 In the UK, studies by Bradshaw at Southampton University showed average groups of 10 per sq km.

The results of all studies, therefore, showed a relatively high density of cats in small areas ~ the more resources in the way of food, the higher the density of the feral cat population. Whilst the studies need to be replicated in many different locations, overall they show that domestic cats choose to live in groups, provided that there is enough to eat.

 Studies by Bradshaw at Southampton General Hospital of neutered cats (where the Cat’s Protection League neuters and releases cats) showed that neutered cats spent a lot of time with the females (eunuch-like) and the females were tolerant of the neutered males.

 Everybody fed together at feeding sites, e.g. skips, refuse bins, and there was no squabbling or competition over food.

 Cats do not have a hierarchical social structure ~ they have only one issue where they might compete ~ for nesting sites and shelter/warmth where occasional contests would develop. They do not compete over anything else.

Why the contest for shelter/warmth and nesting sites? Studies have shown that females in a matrineal society are either centrally located within the core territory or peripherally located within the core territory. Studies in Rome by Natoli showed that 82% of litters fail with peripherally located females whilst this was only 53% in centrally located females. So, generally, the litters of queens in a peripheral location are almost twice as likely to fail compared to centrally located females. In this respect it is obvious why competitive issues arise over nesting sites. Centrally located sites are protected by the female and her close female relatives as it makes sense to be in the centre of the territory for warmth and shelter.

How do certain cats get to be centrally or peripherally located cats? Through physical contests? By working their way up the hierarchy? No ~ it depends on who their mother is! If a cat is born as a peripheral cat it will remain so for the rest of its life. It is not in the cat’s ethology to challenge for the central site.

There is more likely to be fragmentation of the social structure on the periphery of the territory. Generations of kittens on the periphery are not succeeding and so are less likely to have close female relatives and the matrilineal society starts to break down.

For male cats, the nesting site is not important. Competition issues occur over shelter and sexual competition.

Studies by MacDonald within a colony of feral cats, asked whether cats had a preference as to with whom they sat or slept. It was shown that cats preferred to spend time with close female kin, e.g. close body contact for warmth, sisters had litters close together to share suckling and baby-sitting duties etc. There is a huge investment by lactating mothers in their litters so shared suckling would only occur if resources allowed. Living in close proximity allows spatially for shared duties, especially care of the young when the mother goes off to hunt.

MacDonald studied cat colonies for 789 hours and plotted social interactions, e.g. sitting together, sleeping together, mutual grooming etc. On average they occurred 2 to 3.5 times an hour.

So how does this knowledge impact on the lives of our domestic pets? We know that related females can & will choose to live in relatively close proximity. We know that cats communicate in ways other than visual & verbal signals ~ olfactory communication is equally, if not more important in the cat world. We know that any challenges are more likely to be over territory, warmth & resting places, not over food.

So just because we have one cat that shares our house doesn’t mean that it lives a solitary existence ~ your back garden could be providing him or her with a wealth of social interactions with neighbouring cats through smells, sounds & sights. But what about the solitary cat that has no outside access? Is it asking too much of a social creature like a cat to be kept in a house or flat, no outdoor access, & with long hours alone because of the owner’s work & social life? Maybe a companion cat could help ~ but introductions need to be carefully managed & initiated by smell alone at first.

Whilst cats may spend time together sleeping & resting & possibly in mutual grooming, they are still solitary hunters ~ so owners would need to ensure that indoor cats have sufficient resources available to provide solitary predatory practice ~ toys, climbing frames or the equivalent, opportunities to “hunt” for food by maybe hiding dry food in different places? And owners should provide LOTS of resting/sleeping places in warm draft free areas, at different heights, so that there is no need for competition.

And what about human company? Most cat owners have tales to tell about how their cat “loves” them, wants to spend time with them, enjoys a cuddle & a warm lap. It doesn’t take a research scientist to tell us if our cat enjoys human company!! So maybe those solitary indoor-only cats aren’t living fulfilling lives & our perceptions of cats as independent creatures, content to walk alone, are wrong?

Velvet
07-01-2011, 11:27 AM
My feeling is that there are cats, who if not getting what he/she expects at home, will go looking elsewhere & usually gets it.

Vets i used to go to had/have gorgeous inhouse cat. Everyone that goes there fusses him. Nurses, receptionists & vets attend to his whims. He has it all, YET its known that he will disappear for periods of time & he has been seen coming out of a house further up the road!

Some cats do it because they can i.e. they are free to come & go as they please. They will have wee social networks of houses they can visit where someone will feed & make a fuss of them. Rather than being cool & aloof, they are sociable creatures & we are glad to oblige, well some of us anyway:)

Of our two Tim is aloof with strangers, he is very fussy who he makes friends with. Amber on the other hand greets everyone. Now is this because she lived as a stray when very young & was in different places i.e - homes, vets, rescue etc OR is it because Tim's background is feral & its a natural built-in reaction to shy away from strangers & keep out of the way. Some people who come into the house, he will literally run from & get up on the back of mum's chair, she says, for her to protect him :) He stays there for the duration of their visit.

angieh
07-01-2011, 11:44 AM
This article is really interesting wilbar, thanks for taking the trouble to write it. It is certainly thought provoking and I need to think about it - my initial thought is that Kizzy is certainly a happier, more affectionate cat since Pip was introduced. He is a highly sociable boy and will run to greet all comers to our house. Kizzy hasn't got that far yet and is much more likely to absent herself, but given time will come in and see who the visitor is.

wilbar
07-01-2011, 11:57 AM
My feeling is that there are cats, who if not getting what he/she expects at home, will go looking elsewhere & usually gets it.


Vets i used to go to had/have gorgeous inhouse cat. Everyone that goes there fusses him. Nurses, receptionists & vets attend to his whims. He has it all, YET its known that he will disappear for periods of time & he has been seen coming out of a house further up the road!

But isn't that part of the cat's ethogram? Quite normal behaviour really provided the cat has the opportunity. If you observe cats hunting in the wild, they don't stay at one particular location for very long if there's no chance of a meal, e.g. if the prey is startled, if there's competition, if there's no signs of prey. The cat will just try somewhere else. So it would be peferctly normal for a cat to get some things it needs from one location & other things from somewhere else.:)

Some cats do it because they can i.e. they are free to come & go as they please. They will have wee social networks of houses they can visit where someone will feed & make a fuss of them. Rather than being cool & aloof, they are sociable creatures & we are glad to oblige, well some of us anyway:)

Of our two Tim is aloof with strangers, he is very fussy who he makes friends with. Amber on the other hand greets everyone. Now is this because she lived as a stray when very young & was in different places i.e - homes, vets, rescue etc OR is it because Tim's background is feral & its a natural built-in reaction to shy away from strangers & keep out of the way. Some people who come into the house, he will literally run from & get up on the back of mum's chair, she says, for her to protect him :) He stays there for the duration of their visit.

Sociability with other cats is partly a genetic & inheritable trait, & partly learned behaviour depending on early experiences. Similarly "friendliness" towards humans is also an inheritable & genetic trait, & is inherited via the father's genetic input. Friendly fathers often produce friendly kittens. But obviously there is a lot of input from early learning & experiences with humans.

Like dogs, cats have a period in their development when the fear response is more muted. This is an evolutionary sound response because at some stage young animals are & should be, encouraged to start to explore the world around them. It would be pointless if the young animals were so scared they were frightened to leave the den. So nature allows for a period when the fear response is dampened & the young animals start to explore. Experiences like being handled by humans, hearing human voices & getting used to their smells at this stage, can have a huge impact on the kitten's response to humans later in life. Provided the experiences are positive, induce a feeling of well-being, then the chances are that the kittens will be less scared of people later in life. And if they've also inherited their father's "friendly" genes, even more so:).

So with your Tim & Amber I would suggest that it is a mixture of bioth nature/nurture that has formed the way the perceive humans. With feral cats, that have had very little input from humans during their formative period, or have had only negative experiences, then it is far more likely they will remain wary of people. But through learning experiences, lots of feral cats can get to trust & enjoy the company of SOME people, usually their carers, who provide food, warmth, gentle touching etc. But they will still remain very wary of strange humans.

Velvet
07-01-2011, 11:59 AM
This article is really interesting wilbar, thanks for taking the trouble to write it. It is certainly thought provoking and I need to think about it - my initial thought is that Kizzy is certainly a happier, more affectionate cat since Pip was introduced. He is a highly sociable boy and will run to greet all comers to our house. Kizzy hasn't got that far yet and is much more likely to absent herself, but given time will come in and see who the visitor is.

I find that interesting, do you think rather than my theory re Tim, it is just a case of some cats being mire socuable than others?

Phoenix
07-01-2011, 12:08 PM
This article made me think of Beauty again. Beauty was scared of other cats (among other things), but there was one particular cat she used to seek out for company. All other cats she was scared of and would get really anxious around them.

Dylan on the other hand, he likes any female cat, all people but can't stand other male cats.

The rescues I have helped were a mixed bunch. Some really liked the company of other cats but either disliked people or tolerated them (a few liked both people and other cats), some hated other cats but liked people and some couldn't care less either way.

angieh
07-01-2011, 12:28 PM
I find that interesting, do you think rather than my theory re Tim, it is just a case of some cats being mire socuable than others?

I would say yes and reading wilbar's last post I think it could be true and depends on genes and early experience.

wilbar
07-01-2011, 12:39 PM
This article made me think of Beauty again. Beauty was scared of other cats (among other things), but there was one particular cat she used to seek out for company. All other cats she was scared of and would get really anxious around them.

So maybe Beauty was born to a peripheral mother, so was not a naturally secure cat in that resources may have been scarce. She wanted the company of other cats but possibly early experiences taught her that not all cats are friendly. And maybe Beauty tried various overtures to other cats that were rebuffed, except for this one particular cat that acepted her? And as a female cat she was motivated to seek the companionship of another "sister" cat, even if the other cat was a neutered male?

Dylan on the other hand, he likes any female cat, all people but can't stand other male cats.

So probably Dylan inherited people friendliness from his dad plus he had positive early experiences with humans? And he is naturally motivated to seek out the company of other cats, but his "maleness" recognises that others males are competitive for territory, and/or he's had prior experience of the aggressive/territorial behaviour of other male cats.

The rescues I have helped were a mixed bunch. Some really liked the company of other cats but either disliked people or tolerated them (a few liked both people and other cats), some hated other cats but liked people and some couldn't care less either way.

And that just goes to show the mixture of factors that go towards forming cat likes & dislikes, temperament, personality, whatever you want to call it:D. No two animals are going to be identical anymore than 2 humans. But isn't that what makes life interesting:D

wilbar
07-01-2011, 12:47 PM
I've just noted a major typo in my article:oops: The last sentence under the heading Domestic Cats ~ Solitary or Social? should read "Scientific research in the 1990s is showing that cats are sociable creatures ~ feral cats choose to live in social groups." I originally put "solitary creatures" which made no sense at all!! Sorry ~ just as well this is in the Working Articles thread!

angieh
07-01-2011, 02:29 PM
I am now thinking about my experiences with Harley. When he first came calling, he was an intact stray and although he was people friendly, he did seem to have a dominance issue with other cats - not just Kizzy and Pip as my neighbour's cats were both scared of him and other neighbourhood cats stayed away. According to my neighbour, he had major battles with the other Tom that belongs to the local farm.

I thought his dominance issues may pass after he was neutered but this seemed not to be the case. All that happened was he got bigger and heavier and more of a bully.

OH was talking to neighbour a couple of days ago and he mentioned that neighbourhood cats are beginning to come back - they "know" that Harley is no longer guarding his territory.

Elaine
07-01-2011, 04:52 PM
Excellent, very interesting stuff. I have always personally believed that cats are NOT solitary creatures, hunters yes.
I'd be very interested to hear more about how genetics play a big part in "who" your kitten turns out to be. I have had cats who were very comfortable with other cats and humans and have had Eva (the Diva) who struggled to accept other cats and often people.
This is the kinda stuff that interests me alot. Thanx.

calismum
07-01-2011, 07:35 PM
This is a thought provoking article and I have read it, and the posts following it, over a few times thinking about the cats I have had over the years. Had no idea about the friendly father gene.

Will post a few short summaries about my various cats as I think about them.

Shanti male - My first cat got as an 8 week old kitten from a friend, mother and father both happy, friendly pets. He was a well balanced cat, loved people and for three years lived with me as a single house cat. Over the 17ish years he was with me he moved house 8 times, was in a cattery for 3 months, was introduced to 3 new cats all at different times, was introduced to 2 new dogs and a horse (not in the house!) Also at the age of 4 was able to go out and about as he wished. Through all that time he was, to my knowledge, never stressed nor did he show any signs of being up nor down. He loved everyone and everything. I now wonder if this was due to his 'breeding' and early upbringing in a house full of children, people and lots of busy coming and going.

dandysmom
07-01-2011, 09:12 PM
This is a very interesting and informative section; I too didn't know about the friendly father gene.

My Siamese boy who I got from a back yard breeder (didn't know any better back then) was aways a shy spooky cat with strangers ... usually disappeared. I don't know how well socialized he was as a kitten ( I did meet the mum, a friendly cat, not the stud); I never had a lot of people coming ad going in the house; perhaps another reason he was people shy...???

Phoenix
08-01-2011, 01:25 AM
So maybe Beauty was born to a peripheral mother, so was not a naturally secure cat in that resources may have been scarce. She wanted the company of other cats but possibly early experiences taught her that not all cats are friendly. And maybe Beauty tried various overtures to other cats that were rebuffed, except for this one particular cat that accepted her? And as a female cat she was motivated to seek the companionship of another "sister" cat, even if the other cat was a neutered male?

So probably Dylan inherited people friendliness from his dad plus he had positive early experiences with humans? And he is naturally motivated to seek out the company of other cats, but his "maleness" recognises that others males are competitive for territory, and/or he's had prior experience of the aggressive/territorial behaviour of other male cats.


I know Dylan used to try beating up his brother when they were in rescue (think it's a good thing they were seperated)

I'm sure Beauty had conflicting emotions when it came to other cats, she was absolutely terrified of them (her body language would be screaming "I'm scared! Get me away from those scary creatures!") but on the other hand she didn't want to be a "Beauty no mates" (the female feline version of a "Billy no mates"). When she was in rescue she used to hide away from both people and other cats generally. (I know this because shortly after we'd adopted her I was talking to one of the other volunteers and she told me what Beauty had been like in rescue)

wilbar
10-01-2011, 12:05 PM
If anyone wants to know more about the paternal genetic effect on sociability, the research was done originally by Dennis Turner in 1986. Various other research has been carried out since (Reisner et al 1994 and McCune 1995). McCune's study concentrated on how variations in early handling affected behaviour in later life. The findings were that kittens sired by a "friendly" father AND regularly & positively handled at weeks 5-12 were quicker to approach & spent more time with strangers, than kittens sired by "unfriendly" fathers, whether handled early or not. Given that the kittens had no contact with the father it was concluded that the "friendliness" factor had a genetic basis, rather than a learned basis.

But perhaps the term "friendly" is a bit anthorpomorphic so possibly "boldness" or "explorative" would be more accurate, in that the effects seem to be that the paternal effect is more on the lines of responses to unfamiliar or novel objects, be they people or inanimate objects.

Probably most cat owners have no idea of the paternity of their cats, unless they are pedigrees with a known stud. So, whilst interesting, & maybe something that pedigree breeders should be aware of, it is not something that most "moggy" owners can do anything about.

angieh
10-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Can I ask why the researchers supposed the father's "friendliness" gene, rather than the mother's?

wilbar
11-01-2011, 10:43 AM
Can I ask why the researchers supposed the father's "friendliness" gene, rather than the mother's?

Course you can:) . Turner's research was about trying to understand the differing effects of genetics & environmental factors on behaviour. He carried out studies on cat colonies. In one colony they studied, the friendly father produced kittens that were much more friendly than did the less friendly father. In another colony the 2 fathers did not differ so clearly in friendliness & yet still produced kittens which clearly differed in this characteristic. It was theorised that a father's friendliness when young & not when adult, may be the best predictor of the friendliness of the kittens, because "friendliness" later in life will have been heavily influenced by experiences & learning.

The later studies by Reisner et al in 1995 supported Turner's findings, that variations in friendliness/boldness is partly explained by kitten paternity.

The reasons for studying the effects of paternity on kitten behavioural traits was because the studies were about how genetic & environmental factors interact to influence behaviour. It is far more difficult to study the maternal genetic effects because the mother cat's behaviour (as influenced by her own environmental/nurture experiences) would influence the kittens' behaviour & would skew the results. It would be impossible to tell whether the mother's influence on kitten behaviour was a result of genetics or via learning from the mother.

However male cats rarely have any interactions with their offspring, so kittens don't learn from their fathers ~ the only effects that paternity can have on kitten behaviour are genetic. So by doing controlled research on the characteristics of kittens fathered by different sires, but raised in the same way, it is much easier to see the effects of genes on behaviour.

Does that explain it? The studies weren't specifically to see if cat paternity affects kitten behaviour, but more generally to see if genetics CAN have an influence on behaviour & how genetics & environmental factors interact. It was only because male cats have no interactions with their off spring, that made cats a good subject for this research.

angieh
11-01-2011, 11:22 AM
I think I sort of understand that, but I can't be sure! Thanks wilbar!!!

I think my problem is - how can they discount the mother's genetic makeup or her early interaction with her kittens and how she reacts to humans?

Velvet
13-01-2011, 06:32 AM
I think I sort of understand that, but I can't be sure! Thanks wilbar!!!

I think my problem is - how can they discount the mother's genetic makeup or her early interaction with her kittens and how she reacts to humans?

Yes i find that difficult to grasp as well. Surely genetics come from both parents, not just the one.

Supposing in a litter of 2, one kitt is indifferent, wary & not friendly but the other is the opposite, affectionate, seeks out company etc, what do they make of that

Of course i never did pretend to understand genetics, very complicated subject!!

Squirrel
13-01-2011, 07:54 AM
Mmmm... Now see, to a certain extent I could accept the 'from the fathers side' bit, cause in humans there are a certain number of traits which come from the bit that makes a person male... but I do admit it seems a bit odd that personality would be sex linked! Besides, would they have done that amount of research into the genetics of cat friendliness?

wilbar
14-01-2011, 10:21 AM
Yes i find that difficult to grasp as well. Surely genetics come from both parents, not just the one.

Supposing in a litter of 2, one kitt is indifferent, wary & not friendly but the other is the opposite, affectionate, seeks out company etc, what do they make of that

Of course i never did pretend to understand genetics, very complicated subject!!

Yes of course genetics & inheritable traits come from both parents ~ it's just that with the mother cat, you can't tell whether the kitten's behaviour is as a result of genetic inheritable traits, or as a result of learning from the mother's behaviour. Plus researchers noticed differences in the behaviours of kittens within the same litter but raised in exactly the same way & wondered why this should be.

They decided to research the effect of the kitten's paternity on temperament ~ and given that the sires have absolutely no input to the kitten's upbringing via learning or observation ~ the ONLY way a father can influence kitten temperament, is through genetics & inheritable traits.

Perhaps this article explains it better than I did?

http://www.messybeast.com/paternal.htm

angieh
14-01-2011, 11:34 AM
Yes I've got it now! Thanks for the link wilbar.

Gladys
17-07-2011, 01:51 AM
Brilliant article, Wilbar.

Your point about a cat's sociability and need for human companionship could be questioned from an objective point of view: cat's attachment might be seen to be to food and shelter only.

I think cat owners see things differently quite often though. Yes, their cat's need food and shelter, but if they are anything like me, they could come up with loads of examples where the cat shows it's need for human company. What I should have said is the cat shows it's need for a particular human's company.

Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of needs for humans, where we can't begin to consider emotional fulfilment until we take care of our basic needs like food doesn't seem unlike a cat's needs. In that it will form an emotional attachment after it's basic needs have been met.

Having written that I can think of an example of that which isn't true. I'm thinking of the cats we hear about who travel miles to get to their owner. I assume they don't do it on a full stomach. Are they trying to get to the safety of a place where they know their basic needs will be met, or wanting to recapture that emotional bond? Or both.

wilbar
28-07-2011, 12:41 PM
Brilliant article, Wilbar.

Your point about a cat's sociability and need for human companionship could be questioned from an objective point of view: cat's attachment might be seen to be to food and shelter only.

I think cat owners see things differently quite often though. Yes, their cat's need food and shelter, but if they are anything like me, they could come up with loads of examples where the cat shows it's need for human company. What I should have said is the cat shows it's need for a particular human's company.

Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of needs for humans, where we can't begin to consider emotional fulfilment until we take care of our basic needs like food doesn't seem unlike a cat's needs. In that it will form an emotional attachment after it's basic needs have been met.

Having written that I can think of an example of that which isn't true. I'm thinking of the cats we hear about who travel miles to get to their owner. I assume they don't do it on a full stomach. Are they trying to get to the safety of a place where they know their basic needs will be met, or wanting to recapture that emotional bond? Or both.

Thanks for your reply Gladys.

I have also considered Maslow's hierarchy of needs in relation to dog and cat welfare & some research has been done at the place I did my training. It's an interesting concept &, IMO, very relevant to feline & canine behaviour.

So often owners only see, & only try to deal with, "top of the triangle" problems, e.g. dog pulls on lead, concentrate on teaching walking on loose lead; or cat pees on the carpet, concentrate on toilet training. What owners sometimes fail to see is that pulling on the lead or peeing on the carpet are symptomatic of the deeper underlying issues such as lack of safety, fears of loss of territory etc. Then owners wonder why the training doesn't work ~ it's not addressing the right issues!

Bit off topic, but one close to my heart.

I agree that we humans can be very anthropocentric in our views and very anthropomorphic in our interpretation of behaviour. But I hope that properly conducted scientific research tries to eliminate this so that the results are not skewed by anecdotal evidence or human failings;)

Velvet
29-07-2011, 02:54 AM
Nice y
To see you back Wilbar :)

Gladys
29-07-2011, 12:09 PM
You're right, Wilbar, animals can only behave as their feeling towards their environment etc dictates.

One danger of attritbuting human traits to an animal is that behaviours can be controlled/adjusted by making the animal aware of it. However, animals don't have that ability (fortunately).

Having said that, for a human to be interested enough to examine an animal's behaviour looks positive. Hopefully, that means that some people will look at the underlying reasons to the bottom of the triangle for an answer.

wilbar
31-07-2011, 07:27 AM
Nice y
To see you back Wilbar :)

Thanks Velvet:D