Max

[jan]

Hya again all,
I first posted about Max fourteen months ago when I found this excellent and friendly forum. I was really worried about him for various reasons and all the support was fantastic. Now I am posting for some more help and support.

Max would be 18 on April 30 th but the way he is all of a sudden with his eating has me very concerned. He has kidney problems and has been exclusively on senior cat food for the last fourteen months. He loves it, eats like a mad thing (or at least he did) and is very vocal for his food normally which I always take as a good sign.

Last Thursday I deviated a bit from his usual food routine, |I spoiled him with a bit of ham, a bit of corned beef and he wolfed it down. He ate a bit of grated cheese, even took a few oven chips and started eating them off my plate when I had finsihed eating my tea. All this on top of his normal senior food, he drank loads (which isnt unusual) but I smiled at how much he was enjoying his food.

I know over the weekend I ran out his favourite senior food and he turned his nose up at the whiskers senior pouches which he usually ate. Monday I managed to get him some of his usual food and thought he would wolf it down. A few feeble mouthfuls and not interested.

And so it has continued. I watched him and he seems to start off but drop the food, have another go and lose interest. So mindful that a cat must eat (and Max is very thin now despite his former appetite but I know older "kidney" cats do get very thin) I have offered him chicken breast slices I bought specially, yes... wolfs it down. Now we are on ham slices (not the best thing as I tried it and it is slightly salty) and yep, wolfed it down. Every time it is offered, soon perks up and grabs it. Seems to be eating and chewing faily okay, drops it sometimes, but eats it mainly. luncheon meat, the same, but his own food, or even normal cat food cus I was so desperate the other day I tried that, few tastes and no. Still drinking plenty.

Anyway, I am sure I read someone mixed condensed milk with cat food and made a lickable paste for their cat to lap? I am about to go out and purchase a mixer as I dont have one, some condensed milk and hope I got that right! Sounds yukky to me but any one have any other ideas. Max seems well enough in himself apart from this eating issue. My son says I have spoiled him with the treats but he really does nt seem keen on the food he used to wolf down. Any advice very appreciated.

Thanking you as always, Jan x

[Kay]

Poor Max.

It is possible that his taste buds are not working as well as they did and that is why the human foods are more appealing then his bland senior food. I have only ever heard of condensed milk being used as a baby milk supplement but it is used with other ingredients. I would imagine that condensed milk would be far too rich for Max and may cause issues with his toileting, like the runs. As he is already thin due to age and his kidneys this is something you should avoid.

Considering Max's age my inclination would be to feed him what he will eat at least for the time being. I would also suggest trying him with other cat foods especially fish ones as these appear to be the tastiest, I haven't tried them myself though, just going off my cat's preferences.

While it isn't good to completely feed him on our foods getting him to eat at all out weighs this. My friend's cat wouldn't eat cat food when she first got her so she sprinkled fish food (the flakes) on the cat food and she ate. Might be worth a try.

[angieh]

I am sorry to hear about Max. This sounds just like how my Merlin was - also a kidney cat, who had been on renal food for so many years that the same makers had changed the recipe and look three times during those years. He suddenly refused to eat it. Luckily, I was able to get him over onto senior food which he ate for several years after and only in the last few months was he very very picky. I tried just about everything, knowing as you say that it's better to eat something than nothing at all. His favourite was poached chicken breast which I hand fed him. He also sometimes ate white fish, again poached.

You may feel like trying to cook for him and I am sure that there is a link somewhere on this forum to a recipe from Dr Michael Fox, an American vet which ensures that your cat gets all necessary nutrients. I will try and find it. Of course, it would be very frustrating if you went to loads of trouble and Max refused that too.

Here's the link:

http://www.twobitdog.com/DrFox/Dr-Fox-Cat-Food-Recipe

There are also other links in this thread:

http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?t=35162

[dandysmom]

I think I'd discuss this with your vet. Any food is better than no food, considering his age and thinness, but he's not getting all the necessary elements in the people food, plus probably too much salt. I agree that some smelly fish might perk his appetite up. have you tried sardines? It's so worrying when they won't eat!

[farthing]

Hi Jan,
sorry to hear about Max, and thank you for taking the time to write about Spice. Are you sure Max's teeth are OK, this is our major problem with Spive- she is only eating Hi-life petit pate blended with cat milk, added to which is her ipakitine and rubenal. Have you asked for vit B12 injections, not only do they help with anaemia but they tend to help with appetite. In the worst case you could try steriod injections which are good for giving an appetite, although they hold risks, especially if the animal has a heart murmer.
Hope this is of some help.

[calismum]

All great advice above - can I add sometimes heating the food just a little can help, think it brings out the smell which will perhaps stimulate his appetite abit. Hope you manage to find a solution.

[Elaine]

Loads of good advice there. But I'll add my two penneth anyway;)
I would try to avoid the salty stuff, corned beef is very salty as is ham, a tiny bit now and then shouldnt do too much harm. Be careful with the condenced milk incase it upsets his tummy, if he gets the runs, he will dehydrate very very quickly given his CRF status.
When was his last blood test? Might be an idea to have his T4 tested as well as having his teeth checked.
You could try mixing some of his cat food with some sardine or chicken with a fair bit of water, turning it into more of a broth soup kinda consistancy.
You are right that he is better to eat something than nothing, have you tried applaws? The chicken and pumkin one seems to go down very well with most cats, they also do fish ones too.
Zooplus also do foods for cats with kidney issues etc.
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/pet_food/applaws_pet_food/cat_canned_applaws
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/integra

[Kay]

The trouble with renal diets is that they are very bland due to them being very low in protein. They are the best option for Max's condition but you may need to add a little something to make tham more appealing.

Cats taste buds are no where near as good as ours, they aren't even as good as dogs, and as they get older they lose even more tast sensations therefore something that is smelly will attract them more. This is where fish comes in as it does tend to be on the smelly side.

Try a renal diet mixed with a bit of wet cat food fish flavour.

[dandysmom]

That's why cats often go off their food when they have a stuffed up nose, can't smell it, and to a cat "smells good = tastes good. Eat!"

[Kay]

That's why cats often go off their food when they have a stuffed up nose, can't smell it, and to a cat "smells good = tastes good. Eat!"

Got it in one Eileen ;). Glad our taste buds work ok as my nose is often blocked up due to CAT allergies :shock:

[jan]

Thankyou all for your excellent advice, I will try the different foods you have mentioned, I think it was the cat milk I was getting mixed up with the condensed milk but I could nt find the thread when I was scrolling down earlier.



Thankk goodness I checked for replies before I rushed to buy the wrong milk!

I will heed all your good advice and monitor Max carefully. I hesitate stressing him out to take to the vets but if I think he is having trouble with his teeth (those oven chips?) or mouth or gets any more difficult to feed I will have to take him down.

Thanks so much Jan x

[dandysmom]

Do let us know how he's doing, Jan.......

[Kay]

Yes please keep us up to date with how Max is. I hope you find the right combination for him.

[angieh]

Yes, good luck with finding something he'll like to eat that will be perfect for him.

[jan]

Thank you all, I will do.

Jan x

[Elaine]

If you havent already, you might want to call your vet and ask him for a phos binder to add to his food, that way, no need for the renal diet and he can eat what ever cat foods he wants.
All the very best to you and Max xxx

[farthing]

Good point Elaine- the 2 phosphate binders I have heard of are ipakitine, a powder, and renalzin, which comes in a pump. I use Ipakitine and feed my cat 50% renal diet/ 50% hi-life with 1/2 scoop of ipakitine.

[jan]

Thank you for that extra information, and here s an update on Max.

I bought the gourmet pate, cat milk and a blender (but didnt really need that as it blends down really easily.) He tucked in instantly and did it a fair bit of justice, although I have noticed in the last day or so he s happy to tuck in but eating it little amounts at a time. The odd thing is whatever I try and give to him (a bit of tuna, or this cat blend) he takes it off the fork or spoon after lapping it from the plate. Even when he s lost interest in lapping the plate he will have more from the fork. My son even commented when he put a bit of tuna down and then offered it off his finger Max licked it but did nt touch the plate!

One more question, does anyone know of the pate type food being sold in the senior formula?

As for the phos binders I will look into that. Is it vet only or can it be purchased on the internet? Thanking you once again, Jan x

[angieh]

I wonder if elevating his bowl would help Jan - and that would explain why Max accepts food more readily from a spoon or hand which is probably held higher. I'm sure Elaine mentioned that to me when I was having problems with Merlin.

[kado]

Have you tried changing his bowl. Sounds a daft idea but he might not like the bowl he is being fed in.

[jan]

Hi both,
Angieh, any ideas as to how to elevate his bowls? I have tried putting it on the floor, on the chair, on the settee, on the foot stool, its the same story but if you have any fresh ideas I am more than ready to try them!! :) I am beginning to think he likes being waited on lol.

Kado, we have all sorts of feeding bowls, plates, dishes, I have tried altering them, even taken one of my dinner plates in case the bigger the better for him to get at the food but he still only grazes for a short time. Yes, he has run in to the kitchen, meowing today a couple of times when he saw me preparing it but after a few mouthfuls he loses interest. Until you prompt him with a fork full or put it away for ten minuites and try again. Its very frustrating!

On the phos binder front I have just been online and ordered two large tubs - at least I wont have to feel so guilty if he does carry on eating the forbidden food.

Thanking you all again, Jan x

[angieh]

I've just looked at elevated pet bowls on Google but was surprised to find out how expensive they are! I would use an old phone directory and perhaps wrap it in cling film first so it's wipeable. You could adjust the height by using one or more directories. Ask friends and family to keep their old ones!

[farthing]

Hi, just caught up with this again.
Spice is the same, she will lap her food a little and then stop, I then hold it under her mouth and she takes some more, she then moves away, I give her a minute and hold it under her again and she eat again. This goes on for a good couple of times, I do think it is linked to her arthritis and her head tilt, but she also enjoys the attention, because when it looks like she has finished and I give her a cuddle, she goes down and has some more.:roll:
I have started feeding her at 8, 12, 3 5 and 11ish, that way it gets a good bit down her, although it is very time consuming, but I don't mind as long as she is consuming her food.:lol:

[Shelley123]

Jan, sorry to hear about Max's problems, i don't know what sort of dishes he eats out of but i used an upturned cardboard box with a hole cut out to sit the food dish in when my elderly dog needed it.
If the dishes wont sit in an upturned box then i think angies idea of a phone directory is great.

[jan]

Hya all,
as promised an update on Max. I elevated his bowls with old catalogues, phone directories etc, then found an old largish biscuit tin and thats been really good as it s totally wipeable! Max has his off days but unless there s anything sinister going on he actually looks to be putting weight on around his tummy. He is probably eating more food as I am offering it much as you are Farthing, little and often. He s actually been meowing for his food again. Lovely sound!

I have the Ipakitine and have just re read how you give it Farthing and that sounds right as it says a scoop per 5kg weight and Max is very light. I know heavy weight Felix is over five and a half kg and he weighs a ton to my others! Is there any harm in adding it to Tess s food as she is just turned 16. She s lost interest in the senior food now too.(but thankfully she is a bit on the chubby side so not quite so much panic there). Id anyone can advise re adding it to Tess s food I would be grateful.

Once again, thanks for the advice, support and good wishes..


Jan x

[angieh]

Hi Jan - I'm so glad that Max is eating better now. Good boy! I'm afraid I can't advise about the Ipakitine as I haven't had to use it. Bet Farthing can help you there.

[Elaine]

Hi Jan, pleased to hear that Max is getting on well. I wouldnt give the ipakitine to your other cat if it can be avoided as it is calcium based and too much calcium can cause alot of problems. Best to have your other kitty checked by the vet before giving it any phos binder.

http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#ipakitine_cautions

[Shelley123]

Hi Jan, thanks for the update, i'm pleased Max is eating better and putting on a bit of weight.

[dandysmom]

Glad to hear he's doing better, Jan. They do worry us so...

[farthing]

Glad to hear Max is doing well.
I would probably get Tess blood tested first to see if you need to put her on the power- it is probably a good idea to get her tested anyway- thyroid and general organ function. I wouldn't put her on the powder unless her renal functon is compromised.

[jan]

Hya all,

good days and not so good with Max, definate wobble on his back leg when he walks at the minuite, (from last year when he had the enlarged pupil also.) he is getting very frail, still quite enjoying his grub tho. He is actually eating more than Tess probably is when I look at it. Just I am now totally obsessed with Max s eating habits. One amazing thing, Max is 18 today. I am quite in awe. God love him. Once again thanks for all the amazing support. Jan x

[angieh]

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc44/angieh_bucket/Misc/emmy_cat_birthday.jpgHAPPY BIRTHDAY MAX!

(We do love our "old soldiers" don't we?)