Fiv

[Elaine]

Started a new thread as i didnt want to hijack some one elses.
I am always curious as to why the majority feel that FIV cats shouldnt have any contact with other cats. The reason I say that I am curious about it is this, to the best of my knowledge FIV cats only really pose a risk to other cats if they are fighters and biters, hence it can be rife within feral colonies where most if not all are entire.
It's much like the whole HIV scare mongering we had in the 80's imo, whereby people wouldnt share a cup with an HIV infected person. We all know now that the virus is present in saliva, seamen etc but much more difficult to contract that way.

[Elaine]

What is FIV?
Feline Immunodeficiency Virus (FIV) has been associated with cats for many years, although it was only labelled as such as recently as 1986. The virus depletes the number of white blood cells, which eventually makes the cat less able to fight off infection. However, because it is such a slow acting virus many FIV positive cats can enjoy a normal lifespan with no apparent health problems resulting from the virus.

FIV is species specific, so can only be transmitted from cat to cat, and not to humans or other animals.FIV belongs to the same group as Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) and for this reason has received much greater attention than it would otherwise have done. The mere mention of FIV, and the fact that it is sometimes inaccurately known as 'Feline Aids', strikes unnecessary terror into the heart of many cat-owners, so it is worth taking time to consider the facts dispassionately. Firstly, the viral strains used in laboratories on experimental cats were very virulent, and much previously published information is based on this. However, FIV strains in cats living normal lives tend to be much more benign, and may never cause disease.

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How does a cat catch the virus?
The virus is present in the blood and saliva of infected cats. But, like HIV, it is a very 'fragile' virus, and cannot survive for long outside the body. It also requires a high dose to establish an infection in another cat. Therefore, it is not easily passed from cat to cat. The main route of infection is through biting, when the virus in the saliva of an infected cat is injected directly into the blood stream of the cat it bites. Conversely, a cat which bites an infected cat, is at less risk of being infected, as the virus would not be injected straight into the blood stream, although there is still an element of risk.
Cats who fight who are most likely to be infected. Cat fights are most likely between entire toms and these are therefore the group most at risk. Since many feral cats are unneutered and have to compete for food, there is a higher incidence of FIV in feral cats. Transmission between cats in a group who do not fight is unlikely as the virus can only survive a very brief time outside a cat's body, and it cannot be transmitted indirectly, such as on food, feeding equipment, clothes, shoes, hands etc. (unlike the situation with feline leukaemia). Recent research suggests the likelihood of cats passing on FIV to others in the same household is as low as 1-2%.
It has not been proved that the virus is transmitted sexually, although often the tom cat will hold onto the scruff of the female's neck with his teeth, so if the skin is punctured at that point, transmission is possible.

The take-home message here is to prevent fighting - make sure your cat is neutered!Preventing your cat from becoming infected
The only guaranteed way of preventing your cat becoming infected is to never let it outside, where it might meet other cats. This is a drastic, and unnecessary measure, which crucially may reduce the quality of life for cats who enjoy going outside. It's a bit like never going outside your front door just in case you get run over by a bus, basically the chances are low. The best way of helping to prevent the likelihood of infection is to make sure your cat is neutered. As well as being the most humane way of reducing the future stray population, neutering reduces the tendency to fight, or to wander. »»» Further neutering information. (http://www.[Sys edit: Links to pet forums not allowed]/neuter.html)

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[Elaine]

What are the signs of FIV?

Signs that a cat has become infected can vary greatly, so it is not always apparent until a blood test is carried out. Often, the cat may develop raised lymph nodes around six to eight weeks after being infected, and they may have a high temperature. Sometimes diarrhoea or conjunctivitis may develop, possibly lasting days or even weeks, with the cat then returning to apparent health. Other common signs are gingivitis (gum inflammation), sneezing, snuffling, a discharge from the nose or eyes, or kidney failure. The eyes or brain can be affected in a very small number of cases, resulting in changes in behaviour.
The fact that the virus depletes certain of the white blood cells (T lymphocytes), in theory at least, makes the cat more susceptible to other infections, and it will find it more difficult to shake them off. This is known as 'immunosuppression' and is identical to the situation in HIV infection. However, this is purely theoretical, and in practice many cats do not have any more infections than cats which are not infected with the virus.
The commonest infection to occur in FIV positive cats is gingivitis and stomatitis (inflammation of the gums and other parts of the mouth). However, FIV is not the commonest cause of gingivitis. This is common in cats which are fed on an unnatural diet of sloppy canned food. Cats which are carriers of Calici-virus (one of the cat flu viruses) frequently suffer from gingivitis, as well as lot of cats which do not carry either of these viruses.
Whatever the cause, gingivitis is treated initially with a thorough dental scale and polish plus a course of anti-biotics and a steroid drug to suppress the inflammation. Various other chronic infections may also occur - conjunctivitis, diarrhoea, skin and respiratory tract infections (rhinitis or bronchitis). However, these are less common, and again, respond to treatment providing it is carried on for an adequate time.
What is their Life Expectancy?
A cat who contracts FIV will usually still have a strong immune system for several years after infection, it is only over time, that the effects of the virus may start to show, and even then, most infections can be treated with the appropriate medications.
A long-term FIV Monitoring Project was carried out at Glasgow Veterinary School over a number of years and the results indicated that a higher percentage of FIV negative cats died during the period of the study than FIV positive cats! A fourteen year study by Maureen Hutchison B.Sc, BVMS, MRCVS (veterinary adviser to the Cat Action Trust and to Cat Chat) found that FIV-positive cats are more likely to die by being killed in road accidents or to be alive and well into their twilight years than they are to die from any FIV related condition. Also, a recent survey by Dr Diane D. Addie (Lecturer in Veterinary Virology, University of Glasgow) where 26 cats were monitored for ten years, found that FIV infection did not affect the cats’ life expectancy.

Knowing what we now do of the prolonged nature of the condition, euthanasia is totally inappropriate and inhumane. Being killed in a road accident is a far higher risk for a cat than FIV.So Why the Unfounded Fears about FIV?
FIV in the stray cat population has certainly fuelled much of the unfounded fear surrounding the virus. It is mainly un-neutered toms, fighting over food, females or territory, who pick up and spread the virus. The stray cat has no-one to look after them, and their lifestyle means they are more likely to pick up other infections, which without treatment can escalate. When one of these gets captured and taken to a vet, suffering from any number of secondary infections, it is often too late. It is the nature of a vet's work, that they will see many more ill cats than healthy ones, when in fact, there are very many more healthy FIV cats than ill ones - they just don't need to see the vet!
Testing and Treatment
Testing: The FIV test routinely carried out in veterinary practices detects antibodies, which develop four to six weeks after infection, but this test is often unreliable as to whether the cat has the virus. Positive test results obtained by using this simple 'ELISA' test (sometimes called a CITE test, or 'COMBO' test,) should be confirmed by an IFA test (Immuno-Fluorescent Antibody Test) or a Western Blot, as quite often false positives can occur. Some of the ELISA tests are so inaccurate as to make the whole test meaningless, and are producing 'false positives' (due to reacting with a variety of other compounds in the cat's blood). According to the Glasgow Companion Animal Diagnostic Unit web-site (where they give the results of an on-going survey), up to 7% of positive results with the ELISA test are negative when checked by the more accurate IFA test. Many rescues have given up using the ELISA test, and are now using the IFA test only, saving time and money, whilst also being more accurate.
The IFA test is not expensive (usually about £25), and will give you a definitive answer in under a week. To obtain this ask your vet to send a blood sample to either Glasgow University's (http://www.gla.ac.uk/faculties/vet/cad/) Companion Animal Diagnostics (Tel: 0141 330 5777), or to VetLab (http://www.vetlab.co.uk/)in West Sussex (Tel: 01403 730176), or University of Bristol's (http://bris.ac.uk/vetpath/lvd/lvd.htm) Langford Veterinary Diagnostics (Email: vet-path@bristol.ac.uk (vet-path@bristol.ac.uk))
Very rarely, false negative results can occur if the test is done too early for antibodies to have developed, or simply because of the innacuracy of the ELISA test. Again the IFA test will confirm with far more accuracy.
Treatment: Treatment consists of dealing with whatever symptoms occur in the individual cat, such as common infections being treated with Antibiotics. If an FIV positive cat displays any symptoms of illness, however minor, it should be taken to a vet promptly. Once established in a cat's cells, the virus is permanent, and no proven vaccine* has yet been found.
*A vaccine was developed in the USA in 2002, but it is still too early to determine it's reliability. A big disadvantage with this vaccine is that once a cat has the vaccine, they will automatically test positive on an FIV test even though they don't have the virus.
Adopting an FIV positive cat



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A healthy FIV positive cat can live for many years, and indeed can often outlive non-infected cats, but please be aware that this is not always the case. Due to their impaired immune system, the cat may succumb to illness earlier, and not reach their normal life expectancy. FIV cats will need prompt veterinary assistance for even minor symptoms.
Many rescues insist that FIV cats are homed as 'indoor cats' or go to homes with an enclosed garden to prevent contact with other cats. Certainly if the cat has any aggressive tendencies it should not be allowed free access to the outside world, or to mix with non-infected cats. Any tom cat found to be FIV positive should be neutered, and fighters managed in such a way that they do not have the necessity or opportunity to fight. Neutering them may be all that is required. It is surprising how many aggressive stray tom cats turn into docile pets when they have been castrated and no longer have to fight for every mouthful of food! With good care, many FIV+ cats can live nearly normal lifespans. It's not unusual to find FIV+ cats over 15 years of age.

One american study showed that FIV+ cats are far more likely to lose their lives through being euthanised as no-one was willing/able to offer them a home, than from any effects of the virus.FIV positive cats find it harder than most to find new homes, even though in all other respects they are normal, loving cats, and deserve a chance at a happy life. If you think you might be able to give a home to an FIV cat, ask at your local rescue centre ~ Click Here (http://www.[Sys edit: Links to pet forums not allowed]/adoption/index.html) for contact details of rescues and shelters across the UK.




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[Elaine]

Can FIV-positives and FIV-negatives live together?
http://www.catchat.org/diary_pix/bodger_pat.jpgThe most recent research carried out at Glasgow University's Companion Animal Diagnostics indicates that the chances of FIV being passed from one cat to another in the same household is approx 1-2%. This means that if you have 100 cats (!) in a house with 1 FIV positive cat, only 1 or 2 could be expected to become infected. Even when FIV was passed on, as in the Glasgow survey, none of the cats actually died of it.
In another survey a few years ago FIV was not passed from cat to cat in the same household at all. There is also an ongoing study by the Celia Hammond Animal Trust where FIV-positive and FIV-negative cats are living together, and regular 'spot tests' for the virus are carried out. Several years into this study no cases of transmission have yet been found.
There seems no reason, therefore, not to have FIV positive and negative cats in the same household, provided they are not fighters. If two cats in one household fight, they should be kept apart, given behavioural therapy or one re-homed, regardless of their FIV status. So, this is obviously a decision to be taken on a case by case basis, depending on the natures of the cats involved.

Cats who are allowed to go outside are more at risk of being bitten by an unknown feral or stray FIV-positive cat than by a friendly FIV-positive cat living as part of the family.Caring for your FIV+ cat
Good care and lots of love can help your FIV+ cat to enjoy a long life. Being kept as an 'indoor cat' will limit their exposure to infection, although may be considered as reducing their quality of life. An enclosed garden may be a good compromise. Whilst healthy, their regular annual vaccinations should be kept up to date, but do check with your vet about vaccinating if the cat is suffering symptoms. A good diet will help, including vitamin supplements such as buffered vitamin C (sodium ascorbate) and vitamin E, which builds immune system strength. At any sign of illness, take your cat to the vet, as early treatment can prevent many problems. Antibiotics can control infections, and FIV+ cats who reach a chronic stage may rely on antibiotics more frequently.

Don't forget, love is a powerful immune system enhancer, so don't forget to cherish your FIV+ cat!Boarding your FIV cat
Boarding catteries should have no problem accepting an FIV cat, since the virus cannot be transmitted by feeding equipment etc. although you should make them aware of the cat's condition. The cattery will need to know this, to ensure that they are not allowed contact with other cats, and also so that they can keep a close eye for any symptoms of illness, and act promptly.
Kittens
FIV cats should always be neutered, however if a female FIV positive cat is allowed to become pregnant it is extremely rare for the kittens to become infected with the virus. FIV differs from feline leukaemia in that respect, in that is that it is not passed on from the queen to kittens in utero. However, kittens born to an infected mother will absorb antibodies from her milk and will therefore give a positive response to the FIV antibody test. In these kittens the test becomes negative after 12-16 weeks, as their maternal immunity wanes. It is therefore pointless to test kittens under 16 weeks using an FIV antibody test.
Even though it is rare for kittens to be born FIV positive, if there is a clinical need to find out their FIV status, the University of Bristol Veterinary Pathology labs (http://www.bristol.ac.uk/vetpath/) can carry out an antigen test, which detects the presence of the viral DNA itself rather than just the antibody. This is a relatively expensive test, but if needed, information can be obtained from them by Email: vet-path@bristol.ac.uk (vet-path@bristol.ac.uk)
Further information
For more information on FIV check these out:
Catwork Sanctuary: www.v63.net/catsanctuary/fiv.html (http://www.v63.net/catsanctuary/fiv.html)
Celia Hammond Animal Trust: www.celiahammond.org (http://www.celiahammond.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=14&MMN_position=21:21)
Testing Labs
University of Glasgow, Veterinary Diagnostics, Bearsden, Glasgow, G61 1QH. Tel: 0141 330 5777, Email: Companion@vet.gla.ac.uk (Companion@vet.gla.ac.uk) Web page (Companion Animal Diagnostics): www.gla.ac.uk/faculties/vet/cad (http://www.gla.ac.uk/faculties/vet/cad/)

(http://www.gla.ac.uk/companion/)University of Bristol, Langford Veterinary Diagnostics, School of Clinical Veterinary Science, Langford House, Langford, Bristol, BS40 5DU, Tel: 0117 928 9412, Website: http://bris.ac.uk/vetpath/lvd/lvd.htm (http://bris.ac.uk/vetpath/lvd/lvd.htm)

Vetlab Services Ltd. 4 Oakhurst Business Park, Southwater, Horsham, West Sussex, RH13 9RT, Tel: 01403 730176, Email: mail@vetlab.co.uk, (mail@vetlab.co.uk) Website: www.vetlab.co.uk (http://www.vetlab.co.uk/)

[Elaine]

http://www.gla.ac.uk/faculties/vet/cad/informationforowners/felineimmunodeficiencyvirusfiv/

http://www.felinecatrescue.org.uk/fiv_explained.html

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/fiv/info.html

[Elaine]

My appologies for the mega long posts but it's always bothered me that FIV cats get a raw deal by way of human prejudices.
I do understand that rescues cannt save them all and the FIV cats would be harder to rehome and thats a very sad fact in the world of rescue so all I can add is...

SPAY AND NEUTER!!!!

[borderdawn]

Cant they pass it through grooming eachother? I have one Cat that licks all the others, Im sure I read it can be passed through saliva?

For the record, we dont have an issue with boarding FIV positive Cats.

[Elaine]

Cant they pass it through grooming eachother? I have one Cat that licks all the others, Im sure I read it can be passed through saliva?

For the record, we dont have an issue with boarding FIV positive Cats.

From what I can gather it would be rare for it to be contracted that way, much more likely from bites.

And i am very pleased that you dont discriminate against them when it come to boarding;)

[Elaine]

Crikey!!!
Do you realise how much blood sweat and tears it took to make this thread???
12 members online and only ONE blooming response????
You're all mental:lol:

[Elaine]

Taken from the FAB site...

How likely are my other cats to be infected?

Other cats in the household may already be infected with FIV but show no signs of illness. Generally, however, the spread of FIV between cats through social contact alone is very poor, so there is a good chance that the majority of other household cats may still be uninfected.

Are my other cats at risk of becoming infected?

The risk to the other cats in the household is low unless the FIV-infected cat is a fighter. The virus does not survive long in the environment so this is not a source of infection to other cats. However, saliva can contain large amounts of virus so it is advisable to feed the FIV-infected cat separately.

[Moli]

Thanks Elaine there is a lot in your posts I did not know.....

[Elaine]

You're very welcome Pat;)

[pinklizzy]

I agree Elaine that there is a lot of misunderstanding about FIV, when I worked in rescue we even had a lady hand her FIV +ve cat over to us because she was worried about it biting her grandkids and infecting them. We explained until we were blue in the face that they were at no risk whatsoever :roll: She was having none of it however and the cat was found a great new home.
One of the main reasons we usually advocate keeping FIV +ve cats indoors or in a cat-proofed garden is the increased risk of infection on the part of the affected cat, as well as the risk of transmitting the infection. Even neutered cats will fight and immuno-compromised animals are obviously at greater risk from what could be a simple cat-bite abscess in a healthy individual.

[farthing]

I agree that FIV cats get a raw deal, but disagree about them going outside.

Cat don't have to instigate a fight to end up in one.

The area where we live has lots of new houses being built and new pets appearing daily. We have lots of cat coming in, who are neutered, often elderly, who have CBA's, I'm pretty sure they will have fought back in most cases and if infected have potentially spread it to the agressor.
I wouldn't want to run the risk of having another cat infected, regardless of how. Some can live long lives, some can die young like my Triger, he was only 5. You have no idea how angry I am about his loss, I'm positive he didn't catch it here because he never had any bites. He did however have quite a few episodes of vague illness.
In a stable household, it must be rare for for it to be passed on, not one of my other cats contracted it, but I still keep Tabatha seperate, not because she is likely to spread anything ( she has no front teeth) but because her immunity is low I don't want to risk her picking anything up or being stressed.
I still say it is irresponsible to let a cat out if it is infected, you open other cats up to the risk and you own one up to other infections a healthy cat would fight off.

[Elaine]

I hear what both you and PL are saying Louise and obviously the environment to which the cat may live is important but would they not be safe enough in a cat proofed garden or cat pen?
That may sound niave of me to ask but you both work in the veterinary field where as i dont, I just like to read up and know as much facts as I can. I also have not had any experience of having an FIV cat, not that I'd wish my cats to ever become infected but I probably wouldnt turn one away either.

[farthing]

I don't see any problem with FIV cats being kept in runs as long as other cats can't make contact with them. I know they may still get infections but I think it would be reduced. i just don't think it is fair to allow them to run free.
We are hoping to build runs at some point ( when time and money allow) and a run for Tabatha ( if she is still here) would be included. I would be concerned however that well meaning people would take these cats on and leave them to live in a run, without being part of the household.
I suspect one of the main reason people don't want these cats is that there is a definate chance the vet bills will be big, the same reason lots of people won't take on old animals, and insurance isn't an option.
I think we will always have room for at least one FIV cat, the study cat as Tabatha is, although I might reconsider that, as she has just deleted all I have written and I've had to start again, one handed as the other is holding her head off the keyboard.

[Elaine]

Bless her furry boots:) She just wants to tell her side of the tale;)

[dandysmom]

Elaine, many thanks for that lengthy and very informative post! I've learned a lot from it, and wouldn't hesitate to take on a cat with FIV now.

[alexgirl73]

We've just had a 6 week old kitten handed in to us, found hiding underneath a car bless him. He's testd positive in house for FIV and we've now sent off a sample to Glasgow. He'll be fostered until he's about 16 weeks and then tested again, if he remains positive, he'll go to one of the shelters as we seem to have a better chance of rehoming him that way than we do in branch. Unfortunately though, we can't always do this, as a lot of time we simply don't have the room to keep FIV cats seperate from others and they have to be PTS :(

[Elaine]

I just find it all very very sad. Many rescues are criticised for having these dear cats pts, and I have been one of those but the reality is that rescues are between a rock and a hard place and cannot possibly be expected to be able to pick up all the pieces that we humans create.
Time and time again the spay and neuter message does not sink in which is the ONLY way in which we can contribute to helping the situation.
All of this is so needless and is the main reason I get very upset about indiscriminate breeding, especially where moggies are concerned.

[alexgirl73]

I so know where you are coming from Elaine. It's just so damn sad.

[Elaine]

Just another thought....

As we know that the in-house test is not accurate, would it not be more cost effective for rescues to simply by-pass the in-house test all together? Rather than going for it then having to have it confirmed anyway.
Do all rescues have it confirmed or do they trust the in-house test?

[alexgirl73]

Tbh I'm not sure. I think when it is an adult cat it is more reliable (but don't quote me on that lol).

[yola]

As you probably know, I inherited an old stray tom who was FIV+. When we took him to the vet for his initial tests and we were told this, I didn't know much about the condition but after a few solid evening's online research we decided that we would and could take him on. Fifi and Balie were much younger then but were predominently indoors only and Ferdy showed no sign of agression or (and certainly after he'd been neutered) much of an inclination to wander much beyond the garden gate.

He didn't groom the others but did share food and water bowls.

My 2 old Persians are still with me and, apart from elderly puss ailments are absolutely fine. Of course, had there been a fight and one of them been bitten it might be a different story.

What I'm trying to say is that each cat needs to be assessed individually as to its personality and propensity for fighting/wandering. I understand that a cat may fight in protection rather than aggression but I would not hesitate to take on another FIV if I had the space.

Oh, and Ferdy cost us an absolute fortune and the vet and was a tatty, stinky black old thing but he was just the most loveable and precious fella and I think of him all the time.

Oh and also my silly old Mum kept on panicking about 'won't you catch it too' - especially once Dominik had been born :roll: Took a while to set her right on that one!!

Excellent and informative thread Elaine; hugely important to raise awareness of FIV+ and address its misconceptions.

[Elaine]

Tbh I'm not sure. I think when it is an adult cat it is more reliable (but don't quote me on that lol).

I dont think it is Alex.

Sorry for quoting you:lol:

[smudgley]

We've just had a 6 week old kitten handed in to us, found hiding underneath a car bless him. He's testd positive in house for FIV and we've now sent off a sample to Glasgow. He'll be fostered until he's about 16 weeks and then tested again, if he remains positive, he'll go to one of the shelters as we seem to have a better chance of rehoming him that way than we do in branch. Unfortunately though, we can't always do this, as a lot of time we simply don't have the room to keep FIV cats seperate from others and they have to be PTS :(


Why did they do a snap test on a 6 wk old kitten? :? The ELIZA type tests only tesrs for anibodies to the virus, not the virus itself, so snap testing should only be done after 13 weeks of age :?

[calismum]

Elaine, thanks for bringing this up and presenting all that info.

I have had two experiences with FIV.

1 - I had 3 cats, (Shanti, Pepper and Smudge) all indoor at the time. I rescued a cat (Max) that had obviously been in some type of accident, he had open wounds on his leg and side. He received vet treatment and came to live with me for only a short time, he died after 10 days. Vet phoned me to tell me he had tested positive for FIV and he suggested I should get my three tested after (I think) 6 weeks. Pepper came back positive. She was an extremely nervous cat who I had from 6 weeks old from a feral litter. She spent most of her life on the top of the cupboard worrying about things. So how she was infected from him I'll never know and I often wonder if she had had it all her life - but then, why did she not infect my other two cats who she did share food, water, litter etc with.

2 - I had Misty who was an indoor cat by her choice. Again, I rescued a lovely black cat (Sid) who had been living in our coal shed with his two daughters. (Shadow and Munchkin) He probably had been in a few fights but after he was neutered and settled down he would spent time in the house. Misty and Sid used to groom each other and often snuggled up to sleep.

After about 7 years he was getting v thin and was often sick, took him to vet - tests came back as FIV positive. Sadly he was PTS not long after that as he developed a chest infection and it just destroyed him. I asked my vet to test Misty. She was negative. How she didn't catch it I don't understand.

My point I suppose is that FIV cats may infect your non FIV animals, however, they also may not. If I had the same situation again, I'd change nothing.

[pcspik]

Excellent post information post. I was actually in the middle of doing one, but you beat me to it. So I will add a couple of things that dont seem to be covered:-

Vets

A good vet is essential when you have a FIV cat. Unfortunately not all cats are good when it comes to FIV. FIV can bring out the worst in a vet.

Beware of a vet who advocates that an FIV cat should be put to sleep. A cat should be only pts if there are other circumstances (for example severely ill or feral), not because the vet believes in the best interest. There are sadly some vets like this. I know of someone whose FIV cat frequently gets gingitivitis. Sadly each time she visited her vet he suggested it should be pts, when it was (otherwise) happy and healthy. She fortunately did not listen to him and she has now changed practices to a more friendly one. Just because a cat is FIV positive it does not mean it is entitled to a lesser standard of care. If you come across a vet (or indeed a practice) who is like that, change practices!

I have also experienced negative responses from that same practice and I have changed from them too, purely because I do think that my cats deserve better. So with that practice it is not limited to one vet or one owner.

Boarding

What Elaine said. However be aware that there are some very ignorant cattery owners about. The same person as above was going to board her FIV positive cat and they refused to take it unless she was happy it was being left in a pod for two weeks. A pod is btw, a very small space which gives very little chance for exercise (since it is about the space of a very large cardboard box). They also tried to charge her extra because "the cat would need extra care, in particular barrier nursing". (Barrier nursing is btw, when they have to cover every single area of their body, wearing an uniform over their usual clothing and protective footwear. It is usually used for infectious diseases such as ringworm.) Ironically that cattery was attached to a veterinary practice!

Fortunately she asked me what cattery I used. My local one does not charge any extra because the cat is FIV positive. Also where possible they put them in the single pen which is not surrounded immediately by any other cats which means if there is any disease going about, they are less liable to catch it. She in the end used them and was very happy with the care the cat got, and is going to use them in the future.

Also another thing, is that you not in danger from a FIV cat in regards biting and scratching. We recently had someone in our local shelter go and visit an FIV positive cat we had. Unfortunately with the recent hot weather we had it made him rather grumpy and he bit the lad who was stroking (the cat is rather gentle and does not bite very hard) him. The boy was shocked but the dad flipped out and despite several people telling him that FIV does not effect anything but other cats was completely convinced that his son was going to get something horrid! In fact he was going to get him down to the local Casualty department as soon as he left the building. (God knows what happened to him there as there was not even a mark on the boy.) It's people like that which FIV cats do not need.

My two cats are FIV positive. My last cat had to be PTS who was also FIV positive. However he died of kidney failure and not anything to do with his FIV status. I do agree with article about a cat being FIV positive living potentially for a long time, we had a 16 year old FIV cat once in our shelter. Out of our 3 current FIV cats we have at the shelter they are 8, 9 and 5 years old.

I personally strongly recommend FIV cats to anyone. In fact I have written an article about FIV cats for my local Cats Protection member newsletter. If anyone is interested in it, I can dig it out, although I will have to edit some bits out for privacy purposes.

Just another thought....

As we know that the in-house test is not accurate, would it not be more cost effective for rescues to simply by-pass the in-house test all together? Rather than going for it then having to have it confirmed anyway.
Do all rescues have it confirmed or do they trust the in-house test?

Our local shelter does the SNAPP test and then sends the blood off just to double check. Both Jack (now deceased) and Tigger (one of the two current cats I have) had SNAPP done and then ELISA. Both of course confirmed it.

Pickle as he originally came from the vets, I don't know what they did, as the RSPCA paid for his test, and not the Cats Protection. The vet practice actually lost his paperwork which stated he was actually FIV positive, so the shelter just did a SNAPP test as precaution because they knew that he was going to live with another FIV positive cat. That showed up positive, but they did not send any further blood samples off, as they felt it would be a waste of money and resources (plus it would delay me taking him home and they needed the pen badly as they had an open day two days later!).

[dandysmom]

I for one would be interested in reading that; no such thing as too much information.

[pcspik]

Ok here it is. How it actually came about is that the then media relations officer asked me to write a bit about the cat I had at the time (Jack). I adopted him in early 2007 and the article was written on the 1st April of that year.

The people who are responsible for the newsletter are actually against putting medical/cat care information. So really it is a more of a personal thing, but I would still like to include it as I think it is still interesting, even though it makes me cry when I read now. :(

------------

Jack is a 6-year-old male, who I adopted from the [name removed]. I have been volunteering since November 2004. In mid December 2006, my circumstances changed so I was finally able to adopt a cat of my own. However due to the fact that Christmas was impending and other circumstances, I did not start my quest until February of this year.

Jack originally came in as a stray along with another cat, which was quickly adopted. Jack unfortunately stayed nearly 6 months, as the other cat was healthy and fairly young, with no real problems. During that time I came to know him. Jack surely won the award for being the nosiest cat there; the local radio station encouraged us to “sing along” and Jack certainly took them up at their word!! Despite this, most of the time he was a lovely, friendly kitty. He had 2 failed adoptions; both people changed their minds for various reasons, and certainly nothing to do with his temperament. I guess that the fact that his FIV positive status, plus his one eye (removed due to a untreated infection) bothered people who went through the door. Plus late last year, his chronic renal deficiency was diagnosed, which everyone is not always happy to pay for his specialised diet, especially considering the cost and availability in comparison to other cat foods available from the supermarket is considered.

When it came to the time I was able to choose a cat of my own, it had to be an indoors only cat. Like I stated previously, I had been volunteering for a fair while, and invariably I had fallen in love with some previous cats. They all (bar one) turned out to be male, so my preference was for another male. Age I was not bothered about, in fact I was prepared to take a cat older than what he is. I chose Jack because he was (and still is) such a character. He was such a lovely and brilliant kitty; in fact he was popular with most of the volunteers/staff. It was only the visitors that couldn’t see “past the label”. I knew I definitely did not want a kitten. I wanted something a bit more sensible, though at times you could hardly call Jack sensible. I had gained knowledge from previous cats about the FIV situation before, and to be honest, I was not bothered about it, as I knew that any cat (especially a male), which required an indoors only home, would have it. I did, refresh my knowledge and the risks, and read more information about his kidney problem via the internet before taking him on. I know that both problems will mean that Jack’s life span will always be in question, but to me he was (and is) worth it. Besides, even on a non-FIV, non-chronic renal disease cat, there is no guarantee that it will live to an old age. I lost two cats at a young age (one due to the fact I was living by an busy road, the other to feline leukaemia) when I was a kid.

Once I managed to take Jack home, the first time he seemed to be coping quite well. When he was first let out of the carrier, he seemed quite calm, in fact all he did was walk around the room, eat some dried food, walk around the room again, and settled down into his bed. A couple of days later, he was let out of the room he was in into the majority of the flat, however his bed was soon abandoned in favour of the over £700 memory foam mattress on my bed!! From there his personality grew and he more than rules the roost!! We have daily fights over the chair (unfortunately his and my favourite chair are the same; as soon I leave it, he occupies it). He is into everything and anything, he loves to be nosey!! He enjoys his daily past time of climbing onto the windowsill and watching the world outside. He also enjoys climbing and sitting on visitors, I am currently doing a project through the people who are housing me, and he tries to bite the pen!! But the biggest fight is at mealtimes, he tries to eat whatever I am!! He stares at me (considering he has only one eye, it is unnerving how it can be), and if it is something he really wants, he will jump onto the chair and try to nick it off the plate!! Jack is a quieter cat than what he was at the shelter, although he is nosiest when he is hungry!! Jack sleeps with me every night, I do wonder if he is part human sometimes, as he likes to sleep with one duvet under him and one on top, with his head poking out!!

Despite all of this, and the fact he gets called Monkey as often as Jack, he is still a brilliant cat who I would not swap for the entire world. Jack seems more than happy here and as I write this, he is trying to help!! (i.e. biting the pen!). I recommend people wherever possible, to look beyond the FIV status, as they are truly great cats, as Jack certainly proves.

[Elaine]

Thats a lovely article, thankyou for posting it and thankyou for your input and knowledge on FIV.
Maybe you would consider writting an article on FIV, including your personal experiences, for our articles section.
Thankyou so much again to all who have and maybe will contribute to this important topic.

[pcspik]

Thanks Elaine. I am of the strong belief that FIV positive cats should only be pts if there are other circumstances (again other disease a factor or feral). Unfortunately some charities are not so great and there are some who will put them down, even if they are perfectly healthy otherwise or have a minor complaint.

I really like these people:-

http://www.catwork.co.uk/

If I had the money and space I would like to do what they do - take in tons of FIV cats. They also have some information about FIV and again they say beware of poor vets.

[farthing]

I think if you read a lot of the info, you will find that FIV cats only live longer in many cases, because they are kept inside and are therefore not open to the risks an outdoor cat is, as well as their owners are more careful about getting vet treatment straight away. I feel the statement that they generally outlive 'healthy' cats misleading'. Indoor cats will alway, on average live longer than outdoor cats.
It is important that people are aware they can die young as well, and there is no hope of treating them.
I don't want to put people off, but the picture isn't always quite as rosy as is being shown.

I think the comments of vets not considering the welfare of the cats when they advocate PTS is very unfair. Our vets often advise this, because they know the owners will not look after the cat and keep it in. I have a neighbour with a FIV cat they let out, and I will furious if one of my cat catch it off him, unfortunately there is nothing I can do if that happens.
Our local CPL will immediately PTS a fiv cat, I don't really agree, but what are the options. There is no doubt there will be more vet bills than average and people will either not bother or not take on the cat in the first place. Many people say they will keep the cat in but don't, what are the rescue's options.

Please don't think I am anti- FIV cats, but they are ill and need special care, they therefore need special homes and although lots of people like the idea, soon get fed up with it.
I know of lots of old hyperthyroid cats who get PTS because they cost too much, or they are hard to give tablets too, same for renal cats. Life isn't fair, but sometimes PTS it is the best welfare option.

[Elaine]

Thanx again for the link, I have saved it to my favourites and will have a good read tomorrow.
I posted earlier in this thread about rescues being critisised for having these poor animals pts but I do feel that many rescues simply dont have the resources to save them all, as it is there are too many cats etc in rescues and not enough homes for them all, so what can they do in all honesty?
As long as people continue to ignore or be ignorant to the spay and neuter message this issue will not go away sadly.
Thats why I rear my ugly head and make these lengthy posts, that and because i am just a pain in the ass when i get the bit between my teeth:lol:

[pcspik]

I think the comments of vets not considering the welfare of the cats when they advocate PTS is very unfair. Our vets often advise this, because they know the owners will not look after the cat and keep it in.

I think that it is not always the case. That particular person I quoted with the gingitivitis cat is actually a very responsible and dedicated hospital nurse. She has actually worked in the local hospital isolation unit, so she does know about diseases and keeping cats in. They actually knew the fact - but yet they were unchanged in their manner.

With me, when Jack had to have a dental, they asked me if he went out. As I told him that he is indoors due to his FIV, they went "oh a silly f***** FIV cat, now we will have to disinfect the pen" in a rather rude manner. Any practice should be automatically disinfecting the pen, especially considering that the reason why a cat is there in the first place.

Our Cats Protection branch does not pts FIV cats automatically. We are the ones of the smallest shelter in the whole of the charity, so it is possible, with the change of attitude that they could accommodate it. Besides not all FIV positive cats show symptoms. They can be rehomed to responsible people - you can tell if they are suitable during the home visit.

[farthing]

No, not all FIV cats show symptoms but some do, I lost one aged 5, it was horrible, he started to retain water and in less than a week had to be PTS. People also need to be aware these things can happen.
Yes, cats can be rehomed to responsible people, but lets be honest, how many people want the expense or bother- for the same reasons, thats why it is so hard to rehome old animals.

[farthing]

I've just read over what I have written and it looks very negative, its not meant to be.
The main reason I have written like this is because I think people also need to be aware there isn't always a happy ending.
I feel people need to have all the facts, I have been in a situation where somebody was rehoming a problem dog, they decided to let people fall in love with the dog before mentioning the problems, the consequence was the dog ended up in 3 homes before it was killed on the road, it was only 2.
I used to foster for a rescue and they did home checks and had people sign contracts saying the animal they took on would be kept fully vaccinated, 3 out of 10 rabbits we rehomed died of myxo because they were not vaccinated by the new owners.
Perhaps for these reason I an a bit cynical as to what people claim they will do.

[pcspik]

I've just read over what I have written and it looks very negative, its not meant to be.
The main reason I have written like this is because I think people also need to be aware there isn't always a happy ending.

Yes and that is why I did not reply as I could not think of a response without being rude.

But you are right. I still believe that they (FIV cats) should be rehomed where possible. I think a lot of people are still put off with it - out of the 4 longest staying cats 3 are FIV. But I take the point of view that it may not be the case that an non FIV cat lives along. A former worker took one cat and it got ill and had to pts within 6 months of her taking it home. Also one of our shelter cats is severely diabetic and apparently his medication costs £70 a month. If he was not a shelter cat then probably people would not take him on due to sheer cost and then his future may have been uncertain.

But when I took Jack I always knew his future was uncertain. In the end I had him 18 months and 2 days exactly. I dont know how long Pickle and Tigger will live, but at least they will be loved and had a better quality of life than spending their last few weeks as strays or being stuck in a pen.

But wherever you go, you will get people who do not listen. My Pickle only had his first vaccination when I got him. He had his second vaccination but I have learnt since that really if I had not done so, then the Cats Protection could do nothing about this. We have had cases of cats being returned because people have not bothered to introduce them properly to other cats and they have fought.

[farthing]

It sad that any animal is PTS due to cost, it must be very difficult for rescues as if they fill up with non- rehomable animals, what happens to the rest, the rescue basically becomes a santuary and has to turn others away. I would never want to see an animal PTS if it wasn't in pain, that is why my house is full of animals who are geriatric, ill or have behavioural problems. Being realistic though we now have over 100 animals to look after and finantially as well as time wise will have to stop soon. All rescues, I guess, need to make the decision whether they only take on healthy, young animals who will be moved on quickly or risk being filled up with permanent residents.

[Leesy]

Thanks Elaine for posting such an interesting post and for everybody else`s contributions and inputs and experiances of dealing with FIV cats.
I did not really know much about FIV but after reading this information I feel that I could quite happily care for and look after a FIV cat.
Thanks again Elaine:D

[MadCatLady]

Hello Elaine!

We @ Castaways Animal Rescue don't discriminate against FIV but we do tend to suggest they are rehomed as single cats and are kept within a localised area!

We suggest this not just to 'protect' other cats from becoming FIV but because of the weakened immune system in FIV positives any little bug could have horrendous effects! My Tribe have chlamydia and often have outbreaks and although it is easliy treatable in healthy cats it could be disasterous in an FIV positive case!

Also many of those we rescue (unlike other centres) are from feral colonies and some Toms in particular, even after having the snip do continue to fight for territory and mates, it really depends if you can get them young enough... So intergrating them into an established household colony can be heartbreaking for all those concerned....:cry:

The thread was beautifully written and gratefully recieved and yep SPEY & NEUTER is a message we never seem to get across!!:mad: :evil:

[Elaine]

Thankyou MCL:D