Found this really disturbing

[Alison]

I've just been on a pet forum where a guy was trying to encourage his male & female cross-bred cats to mate. I adviced him that the Cats Protection are rescuing hundreds of cats a day because of these kind of matings & that the rescue encourage all cats not intended for breeding should be neutered/speyed. The administrator of the site then informed me that a rescue has no right to determine that cross-bred cats should be neutered/speyed. She more or less said that I indicated that cross-bred cats/kittens shouldn't exist, that was not what I was getting at all. I have now decided to leave that forum because I feel I don't belong there anymore.

What are peoples thoughts about this? Not about me leaving of course lol

[Emmaandhercats]

I've just been on a pet forum where a guy was trying to encourage his male & female cross-bred cats to mate. I adviced him that the Cats Protection are rescuing hundreds of cats a day because of these kind of matings & that the rescue encourage all cats not intended for breeding should be neutered/speyed. The administrator of the site then informed me that a rescue has no right to determine that cross-bred cats should be neutered/speyed. She more or less said that I indicated that cross-bred cats/kittens shouldn't exist, that was not what I was getting at all. I have now decided to leave that forum because I feel I don't belong there anymore.

What are peoples thoughts about this? Not about me leaving of course lol


My neighbour is a volunteer for CP, and I know how full the centres are, and the fosterers houses are literally full to the brim with rescue cats waiting to be rehomed, especially lots and lots of kittens. So I have to agree with you. There are so many moggies out there that allready need to be rehomed, cat owners need to think responsibly, as soon as my two kittens (not got them yet! only 3weeks and 2days to go!) are old enough I wil lbe getting them 'done'. Because it is the responsible thing to do.
As for leaving the forum, I dont blame you. I am also on another pet forum, and I tell ya, some people just DO NOT LIKE OTHER PEOPLES opinions...which, isnt that what forums are about...people sharing experiance, asking questions and offering their opinions.
Good for you for sticking up for what you believe in.:-D

[meep]

I know there is a huge majority opinion that all non-pedigree cats should be netured asap to prevent unwanted litters, as there are far too many cats in shelters needing homes. And I agree with the prinicple and morality of this.

However, I also personally believe that any owner has the right to not neuter their pets and breed them if they so wish. Sadly, many people don't neuter possibly due to laziness or neglect, and as such their cat can get pregnant many times, at the cost of their health and as a result, there are many unwanted kittens.

But in a way, I've thought of my two boys and how it is sad that they will never be able to have kittens. In my opinion (maybe slightly biased!) they are both very healthy, strong cats with good genes and also uniquely large for moggies. If possible, I may have sourced a female for them and bred them so as to have kept a kitten as well as continue their good genes. But I would only have done this once, and then neutered, and made sure there were homes for the kittens lined up before breeding. (And may have one bred from one of them, not two at once!)

I don't want to cause controversy, but that is my own personal feeling for my own cats. Sadly, I know that many cat owners with unneutered cats wouldn't have such a set 'plan' in mind, and are also out to make a tidy sum from the kittens. Had I had the option to breed from my two (and say I had the female to, so thus had 'ownership' of the kittens) I wouldn't have charaged for the kittens at all, and would have given them to friends, as well as keeping one kitten for myself.

I know it is nigh on impossible that moggies will become 'extinct' and that pedigrees will be the only breeding cats left, but it does occasionally confuse me that pedigree cats are 'allowed' to breed yet on that same principle, surely owners shouldn't be fussy and should rescue a moggie anyway instead of a bred pedigree, as on the same token, if they buy a pedigree kitten there is one more moggie cat still in a shelter; just in the same way that if they'd bought a moggie kitten there'd be one more moggie cat in a shelther unhomed. I do understand pedigree owners are registed, generally more responsible, and I admire a lot of breeds of cats.

But also after watching the BBC programme on pedigree dogs (slightly different but same principal) and understanding that heriditary problems in pedigrees are only increased as there are no new genes to strengthen the breed, and it is technically inbreeding too close within 'family' genes, I believe moggies can often be healthier and think their genes should be allowed to be spread and therefore moggies should be allowed to breed to ensure there are healthy cats.

I hope that wasn't too complicated! And I by no means am attacking any pedigree owners or breeders; I personally would love to own one or two pedigree cats myself! It's more my confusion at technically double standards: "don't buy a bred moggie kitten, think of the poor rescue cats! oh but you can spend £400 on a pedigree, and not rescue, that's fine". Again, not a personal attack, but at an objective distance it does seem to be a bit hypocritical.

I think it's sensible of rescues to neuter any cat that comes into their care as there are a huge number of homeless cats or cats in shelthers, and the cost of keeping them is very large for the rescue shelters. But an owner of a moggie cat should not automatically be condemned for wishing to breed from them. Really, it should be done on a case by case basis. I'm nots ure waht the guy on the other forums motives were, and if it were at the expense of the cats health I would be worried; but personally I like the idea of being able to continue the lineage of a beloved pet whether they are pedigree or not.

[meep]

Having read that over, I know from experience that it will clash with some people's opinions and I want to say; please don't take it as a personal attack or contradiction! It is my own personal opinion, I am not praising all the many moggie breeders that pop up on Gumtree and the likes trying to sell as many kittens as they can at such a high price.

But morally I do not like double standards of it being acceptable to spend £400 on a pedigree and not be condemned for not adopting from a shelther instead; but if someone buys a moggie kitten they should have adopted instead. At the end of a day, a cat is a cat!

(Again, pedigree owners do not take offence! I personally would love to own a Bengal or Abysinnian. And if I could afford it I would. It's not the owning of them I am arguing with. It's the attitude toward breeding pedigree vs breeding moggie.)

[meep]

I also want to add that I am all for the immediate neutering of cats when taken into care by CP and other shelters, and completely appreciate that there are too many cats in shelthers. I got my two from the CP myself, rather than bought kittens. But I still maintain that an owner has the right to choose without immediately being condemned for breeding a moggie!

[Alison]

The one thing I was alarmed with was the guy put that thread up then a few minutes later put another thread up saying that the male cat had become ill & was struggling to breathe. Other members told him that he must take the cat to the vets, but he informed them that for him to take the cat to the vets it was going to cost him £100, money he didn't have until the following Monday (he posted this thread on the Saturday), luckily for him someone lent him the money, but if they hadn't that cat would have suffered for 2 days because as it turned out the cat had kidney failure & had to be pts. What that tells me is if the guy hasn't got the funds to take his cat to the vets, how can he even think of letting his female cat have kittens because doing that isn't cheap I'm sure. None of my queens have ever had babies because I've always had them neutered, toms too.

[meep]

Ah, well that entirely changes everything. As I said, I would treat each situation on a case-by-case basis, and in this instance, I would have taken your tactic and subtly suggested he adopt a kitten from a shelter instead of breeding his own as he certainley doesn't sound like he has his cats health in mind and I would think has ulterior motives for wanting to breed.

It makes me so sad that people take on pets without considering the financial burden, and as a result the pets can suffer :( I know owning cats can be expensive, and as a result I have insurance in case of any hefty vet bills. At the end of the day, it comes to one coffee and cake outing a month (£6 per cat) which is affordable.

This guy should definately not be considering breeding if he can't afford to take a cat for a routine check to the vets. I would fear for the health of the mother and kittens :(

[Moli]

It sounds as if he just wants to make money from them, without giving them the proper care they would need!!!

[Emmaandhercats]

It sounds as if he just wants to make money from them, without giving them the proper care they would need!!!


I actually read the thread in question too...it sounded that way to me too.:evil:

[Alison]

And that's how I see it too & believe me it has certainly made my blood boil :mad:

[Alison]

I just went back on the forum to clear a few things up before leaving & I noticed the admin had given me a red card on my user CP saying that I have low comments about cross-bred cats. How can I have such a thing when all 5 of my cats are moggies :? I've told her I'm not going back & to close my account. I can't believe anyone could think that of me!

[Emmaandhercats]

I just went back on the forum to clear a few things up before leaving & I noticed the admin had given me a red card on my user CP saying that I have low comments about cross-bred cats. How can I have such a thing when all 5 of my cats are moggies :? I've told her I'm not going back & to close my account. I can't believe anyone could think that of me!

that is terrible, for goodness sake...everyone is allowed their own opinion, and you were bloody right in the first place.shouldnt the forum give the fella in question a red card for being irresponsible. It reminds me of when I got my springer Poppy. The couple (breeders...ye right!) lived of handouts (NO IM NOT KNOCKING ANYONE HERE, SO PLEASE NO NASTY COMMENTS...IM CLEARLY STATING THE FACTS) the tax payers paid for their house...yet they had a caravan, a range rover...all paid for by, well tax payers, but mostly their dogs. They had 3 female springers and 1 male, and 2 other dogs (not sure what breed, can remember!) so thats 8 litters a year. They did not get them kennel club registered cos of the cost, only dog lovers (which was fine for me as i only wanted a pet) and they bought the cheapest food for them. 8 litters and £400 A PUP. some people ARE just in it for the money...this guy obviously was.

[Moli]

Don't worry about it Alison, its their loss and our gain...:) You are better off on Catsey...;)

[Kim]

I would have left the forum too.

I am totally and utterly against the breeding of moggy cats. There will never be a shortage of them and having volunteered in a rescue centre for many years, I have personally seen the huge scale of the problem. Sorry, but I think it is irresponsible for anyone to even consider it.

[Alison]

That's how I see it too Kim, I have seen how overrun rescues are, not just cats but dogs, rabbits etc....

[Elaine]

I would have left the forum too.

I am totally and utterly against the breeding of moggy cats. There will never be a shortage of them and having volunteered in a rescue centre for many years, I have personally seen the huge scale of the problem. Sorry, but I think it is irresponsible for anyone to even consider it.


I agree and its not about being against moggies, it's about loving them and doing what is right. I have seen the most pittyful cases via Diddydawns rescue work and how she has broke her heart trying to help the most poorly of them.

[Elvisisboss]

i just feel bad as i phoned lots of rescues about kittens & cats and they all turned me down as i dont have a garden!

one kitten was only 8 weeks and she said it had already been in her garden and she seemed taken aback when i said it wont be going outside!

i then paid £50 to someone who i now know breds kittens /cats for money and churns them out like hot dinners, so instead of resucing a cat and giving it a good home, ive funded this women to carry on doing this :(

i am now moving in about 4 weeks (sign the papers next week yippee!) so he is getting neutered in a week & mircochipped etc, but i could have given a older cat a nice new home i wasnt bothered about age just wanted to rehoem a cat, but all of them went outside, even the kittens.

i might re-home in the future but ive now decided to get a pedigree cat on my next list! never had one before! :)

oh i dont think people should encourage mating of any cats ped or not if its not to further a breed etc.

in my opinion no mating is a 'acident' if your dog/cat is not spayed/neutered it can get pregnant, and you can take it to the vets to have it terminated if it gets that far.

[calismum]

Yes, I do so agree. Off all my cats only the first was actually a planned purchase. The rest were all rescues of one sort or another. Every single one the result of an 'accident'. Kinsi's mum was about 5 and it was her 4th pregnancy. Her owner didn't want her or the kittens.

I've already said tht I hadn't even brought her home and I was asked if I was going to breed her! - what is it with some people??

CM

[Moli]

Yes, I do so agree. Off all my cats only the first was actually a planned purchase. The rest were all rescues of one sort or another. Every single one the result of an 'accident'. Kinsi's mum was about 5 and it was her 4th pregnancy. Her owner didn't want her or the kittens.

I've already said tht I hadn't even brought her home and I was asked if I was going to breed her! - what is it with some people??

CM
Its all about money CM......They get a cat and see £ signs!!!:evil:

[calismum]

Its all about money CM......They get a cat and see £ signs!!!:evil:

Och, I know - but it just makes me see red. I have had some wonderful characters over the years and not all came as kittens. There are so many lovely animals out there just waiting to be loved and to love. But hey - guess I'm preaching to the converted?:cat9

[Moli]

I have 4 pedigree cats, and one gorgeous moggy, since joining Catsey and working with the Cp, I would never ever buy another cat, so yes I am well and truly converted....:D

[dandysmom]

I generally agree with meep's well reasoned post. I do think the majority of moggies should be neutered, and pedigrees that aren't show quality. And that all cats taken into rescue should be also. But it should be a decision made by the owner, a reponsible owner who's investigated all the costs involved. I would have dearly loved to have bred Misty, my first blue torbie; she was a lovely cat and would have been a wonderful mother. But when I considered the problem of finding a suitable tom, raising the kittens and finding loving homes for them, I didn't; plus there are too many cats needing homes. My close friend Carolyn, who believed having one litter was good for the female, did the opposite. But I will say she took great time and trouble vetting the tom, seeing that the three kittens were vet checked and had the proper shots; and was extremely careful in finding them good homes, with the understanding that the cat was to be returned to her if there were problems, (One was!) We agreed to disagree on this point; I couldn't convince her. But not every owner is as conscientious as she was. Need I say Kate was spayed after the litter? I do agree that inbreeding can be a problem, especially with breeds with small gene pools (like my beloved Puras!), but we are never, ever going to run out of moggies ! Sorry if this is a bit wordy.

[meep]

Thanks for the comments on my post DM; I think you articulated what I was trying to say much better than I did!

I completely understand everyone's attitude toward neutering moggies and not breeding them, especially if they've worked in a shelter and have seen the devestating effects of not neutering cats and there being more cats than there are homes.

All my cats have been either gifts, CP adoptions and one was a wee kitten we found outside our house abondoned by her mother, so also a rescue! We've never bought a cat, and when my mum and dad's first cat, Baggins, was given to them as a wedding present they found out she was pregant once they'd gotten her and were planning to get her spayed; they gave away all the kittens to good friends and didn't ask for a single penny, and kept one kitten themself.

This is just personal opinin, and I'm not trying to persuade or convert anyone, but what irks me slightly is that the breeding of moggies is condemned and we all understand the awful plight of cats in rescue centres and we are all encouraged to adopt from rescue centres rather than breed or buy bred moggies; but breeding of pedigrees isn't frowned upon at all. I know people want to continue the breed, and people buy certain pedigrees for certain reasons (ie. their look, their known temprament); but as I've said before, at the end of the day a cat is a cat, and the double stadnard of condemning moggie breeding but shrugging off pedigree breeding doesn't rest well with me. I'm not against breeding pedigrees at all, but surely anyone who wants a cat should be encouraged first and foremost to adopt a moggie (or a pedigree from a pedigree rescue centre) rather than buy a cat, whether it be moggie or pedigree.

ETA: Anyway, I know I'm repeating what I said earlier, and I'm not trying to cause a debate. We all have our own opinions and I think we're all justified in them and will all stick to them :) What I know is we're all supportive of CP and other rescue centres, and the wonderful work they do! Without them I wouldn't have my two gorgeous boys, and my wonderful girl Sophie at home.

[Elvisisboss]

Thanks for the comments on my post DM; I think you articulated what I was trying to say much better than I did!

I completely understand everyone's attitude toward neutering moggies and not breeding them, especially if they've worked in a shelter and have seen the devestating effects of not neutering cats and there being more cats than there are homes.

All my cats have been either gifts, CP adoptions and one was a wee kitten we found outside our house abondoned by her mother, so also a rescue! We've never bought a cat, and when my mum and dad's first cat, Baggins, was given to them as a wedding present they found out she was pregant once they'd gotten her and were planning to get her spayed; they gave away all the kittens to good friends and didn't ask for a single penny, and kept one kitten themself.

This is just personal opinin, and I'm not trying to persuade or convert anyone, but what irks me slightly is that the breeding of moggies is condemned and we all understand the awful plight of cats in rescue centres and we are all encouraged to adopt from rescue centres rather than breed or buy bred moggies; but breeding of pedigrees isn't frowned upon at all. I know people want to continue the breed, and people buy certain pedigrees for certain reasons (ie. their look, their known temprament); but as I've said before, at the end of the day a cat is a cat, and the double stadnard of condemning moggie breeding but shrugging off pedigree breeding doesn't rest well with me. I'm not against breeding pedigrees at all, but surely anyone who wants a cat should be encouraged first and foremost to adopt a moggie (or a pedigree from a pedigree rescue centre) rather than buy a cat, whether it be moggie or pedigree.

ETA: Anyway, I know I'm repeating what I said earlier, and I'm not trying to cause a debate. We all have our own opinions and I think we're all justified in them and will all stick to them :) What I know is we're all supportive of CP and other rescue centres, and the wonderful work they do! Without them I wouldn't have my two gorgeous boys, and my wonderful girl Sophie at home.

hiya thats what i said in my last post i WAnted to adopt/rescue but no one would let me without a garden! :( i phoned so many places one lady even got annoyed that i would think of keeping the cat indoors! it was only 8weeks old would have had a fantastic home here.

i feel guilty (although would not change him for the world as he is amazing) that i paid £50 to fund some lady who churns out these cats like hot dinners :(

if i had rescued like i planned she wouldnt have got the money from me.
like alot of people i can not afford a pedigree (am saving now for my next cat will take about 1yr/18months!) so i went for what i could afford after i looked into resucing, and what i could afford was a moggy........alot of people wouldnt be able to afford cats if we didnt have moggies :(

so what if i dont have a garden? (although i will do soon!) my cats happy and soo spoilt and loved, and i could have given it a good home, so why say people without gardens cant have one? it cuts off half of the world!! (well not the world but you know what i mean!)

[meep]

Elvisisboss, I've heard of some rescues being funny about who they allow to adopt, and some haven't allowed people with young children to either. It's strange that she wouldn't allow you to keep a cat indoors, unless it was already an outdoor cat. The Glasgow CP league lists its cats on teh website as either "Indoor Only" or "requires outdoor access" depending on what their background is. Perhaps all the cats they had in at that time had had outdoor access previously and so it wouldn't be fair to them keep them indoors?

I never thought of the money issue, but that is also true. I could never afford a pedigree cat either, and if I could afford the initial cost I wouldn't rush in until I knew I could afford any vet bills or higher insurance that comes with the risk of known heriditary diseases. Moggie cats are cheaper to insure as they generally have stronger genes and are less prone to hereditary illnesses. ANd for people like yourself who couldn't adopt from shelter or CP, buying a moggie was your only option.

I think generally all moggies should be neutered, but there are certain circumstances when buying or breeding moggies is justified, which is why I disagree with the stance of 100% NO to moggie breeding.

[Elvisisboss]

i know but they had in lots of kittens only 7/8weeks but she said they already had a 'taste' of the garden.

its kinda cutting people off though, people who want to rescue cant......cant afford a pedigree........what else do we do?

i emailed some really nice breeders about my situation and some said they were willing to half their prices which was so nice of them! but it still was too much for me right now, maybe in the future when i have saved, but that could be 18months away!

i dont know if this sounds mean but couldnt they keep kittens inside? that way flat owners could adopt too?
as kittens get adopted quicker i though so wouldnt that be a idea?

[dandysmom]

You had no choice but to buy, Elvisisboss! I cannot understand some of the absurd restrictions some rescues insist on. I bought my three pedigrees before I was on Catsey and learned about the terrible overpopulation of cats; any future ones will be from rescues or breed rescues, absolutely!

[farthing]

I'm pretty much against breeding anything, there are so many animals out there needing homes, why breed, even pedigrees. I would like to know how many animals spend their whole life in a single home and live to the full life expectancy, without being moved on at one time.
In a way pedigrees are almost worse as they are more likely to carry genetic problems, more so in dogs, I must admit. Don't get me wrong there are certain pets, I would have loved to have had a baby from, because they were special characters ( OK almost all of them) but unless I could keep them all, what happens to the babies. Most people in the end disappoint me, I can deal with it usually, but if it was regarding an animal I would be devastated.

[Moli]

I'm pretty much against breeding anything, there are so many animals out there needing homes, why breed, even pedigrees. I would like to know how many animals spend their whole life in a single home and live to the full life expectancy, without being moved on at one time.
In a way pedigrees are almost worse as they are more likely to carry genetic problems, more so in dogs, I must admit. Don't get me wrong there are certain pets, I would have loved to have had a baby from, because they were special characters ( OK almost all of them) but unless I could keep them all, what happens to the babies. Most people in the end disappoint me, I can deal with it usually, but if it was regarding an animal I would be devastated.
This is the reason I would never breed any of my pets, even if I had what I though good homes for the litters, I would still worry about them....:?

[dandysmom]

This is the reason I would never breed any of my pets, even if I had what I though good homes for the litters, I would still worry about them....:?

Carolyn kept in close touch with the people who took her kittens; when one family had to move overseas and couldn't take Minguette she came back to Carolyn,. I kept in touch with Dandy's breeder for 12 years; talked on the phone frequently and sent photos; also with the lady I rehomed Patches from..sent her pics every Christmas with my card. But most people don't bother, so you do always wonder, don't you? I know that if I had bred Misty I'd probably have kept the kittens........

[farthing]

I know, I even had to give up fostering as I ended up worrying about them too much, that's the main reason we've become a sanctuary, we get too attached.:roll:

[Elvisisboss]

You had no choice but to buy, Elvisisboss! I cannot understand some of the absurd restrictions some rescues insist on. I bought my three pedigrees before I was on Catsey and learned about the terrible overpopulation of cats; any future ones will be from rescues or breed rescues, absolutely!

i know :( i also phoned up about rescue dogs they all said no to me as well even though i have a dog park outside my front door, literally! and a huge resvation (spelling) 10mins up the road with lakes/ducks!

i bought one in the end (very sadly had to rehome being due to being made homeless on the day of moving into another house, but thats another story :evil: )

i then find out that this 'women' or 'devil lady' she should be known chucked her pups out at 4 weeks, the new owners kicked him about and then took him back and she shoved him onto us as a 'rescue' case :( i thought i was helping but instead i lined her pockets :mad: :mad:

only found out when i met another lady who had the same story as mine........yes she has all types of dogs for 'rescue' oh you have to pay though, just a small amount £180) to make sure its a good home!! she had my dog a westie cross, a shizu (sp) border collie & also a litter of CKCS & another 2/3 dogs (or pups) but they were behind a door. i fell for her 'we resuced him' line and thought i was helping. he came away with such problems, it kills me it really does how people do this and live with it its a animals not a piece of rag :mad:

if i ever see anyone hurting my animals or theres Ever, god help them id bloody hurt them :mad:
espically that bloody woman with her lies!

ARGH! sorry bit of track there... :oops: :roll:

i was also speaking to another lady who wanted to have a rescue cat but she was also in a flat and they said no, she was at home all day so it wasnt like it would be alone! she now has a few of them all bought, so she could of rehomed 3 cats instead just adding to people breeding them :(

i do not think people should stop breeding, i mean ok say everyone did, then everyone looking for a dog rehomed.......say all the dogs got rehomed......and there were no dogs left for anyone else?!

i only agree with FULLY health tested good ethical breeding and for a purpose as good pets or showing working etc

i dont beleive in 'accidents' if the animal is not neutered/spayed it can have a litter! get it done!