View Full Version : Breeding from moggies..intentional or oops litters
Here's food for thought.
When does it become ok to breed moggies? or not ok? Who decides?
I ask this because there have been a few intentional breedings of moggies that I know of and some oops litters yet there seem to be double standards. That is depending on owners.
From what I can gather all have found good homes but its a strange one.
Oh edited to add. Catsey does not promote the breeding of moggies.
Darky
11-07-2008, 04:02 PM
I personally am not fond of intentional breeding of moggies because there are already plenty of cats and kittens out there that need rehoming, why create more? I can understand pedigree breeding because there's a market for it.
Though I also don't think that there should be so much anger towards accidental litters. Not everything in nature can be 100% controlled, and these things happen sometimes. If it weren't for my cat's accidental litter 11-12 years ago, we wouldn't have our lovely cat Spike. (She had an emergency spay but otherwise would have been spayed ASAP afterwards.)
Elaine
11-07-2008, 05:27 PM
I think Catsey has, in the past, promoted the breeding of moggies whether accidental or deliberate, and probably will again in the future too, sadly:roll: .
I am not a complete fan of breeding pedigrees either as there are a great many dubious breeders out there and more and more pedigrees are finding themselves in the hands of rescues also.
The anger behind accidental litters stems from the fact that these could have easily been avoided and if you were to see what rescuers see on a daily basis, neuter and spey would be a priority. I do accept that in exceptional circumstances, perhaps mistakes can happen but on Catsey these mistakes happen on a pretty regular basis. I have never seen so many accidental litters on one forum. My opinion is that if we are relaxed and say "oh well these things happen, not your fault", you are being complacent about the whole thing. Who's fault is it if not the owners?
Darky
11-07-2008, 05:35 PM
I suppose you're right there.
Unfortunately it's just not something that will ever be easily fixed, though. All you can do is make sure that you're a responsible owner and hope that it rubs off on other people.
If I am financially able, in the future I do wish to either start up a small shelter or foster animals.
This topic has been exhausted more times than enough on Catsey.
Here's some previous threads discussing exactly the same thing :roll:
http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?t=25660
http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?t=14550
http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?t=12915
http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?t=11815
Elaine
11-07-2008, 05:44 PM
You may well be fed up hearing it Fran but the fact is that it is still happening and more importantly, it's still happening here on Catsey.
I'm not fed up of hearing it Elaine, just think it has been well covered enough already and fairly recently too.
EmmaG
11-07-2008, 06:01 PM
Not sure I have a problem with people having the odd litter of moggies, if they have good (for life) homes set for them. Although there are plenty of moggies in rescue centres across the UK, will the odd litter of moggies make the problem that much worse? But when I refer to breeding I am not taking about people breeding 100's of cats a year and making money out of it, but the odd time it might happen.
What gets on my nerves is some peoples attitude to pets that they seem to be disposalble things and not for life. What do they say "a pet isn't just for Christmas". If people were comitted to their pets then half wouldn't be in rescue centres in the first place!!
Elaine
11-07-2008, 06:08 PM
What gets on my nerves is some peoples attitude to pets that they seem to be disposalble things and not for life. What do they say "a pet isn't just for Christmas". If people were comitted to their pets then half wouldn't be in rescue centres in the first place!!
It is also important to remember that some cats end up in rescue due to circumstances beyond the owners control also, not all are simply abandoned.
EmmaG
11-07-2008, 06:17 PM
I agree Elaine, hence my comment "some people" but I wonder what the true percentage of these really are?
Alison
11-07-2008, 06:57 PM
I'd like to think that I'm a responsible cat owner, all of my cats apart from George & Candy because they are too young yet have all been neutered or speyed. I don't bring cats into my house with the intention of breeding from them. In my opinion there are far too many unwanted cats & kittens not just in this country but all over the world. Domino, Tigger & Shadow were all neutered/speyed as soon as they hit the 6 month age. When Peppa came to us she was 11 months old & had already a litter before I took her in. The day she arrived at my house I was straight on the phone to my vet to book her in & I'm so glad I was on the ball because the night before her operation she came to season, so I got her speyed just in time.
The same will happen with George & Candy, as soon as they are old enough they will be done too.
Yes accidents can and do happen. I'm talking more along the intentional breeding of moggies because your friend likes your cat and would like one the same. That kind of thing. Again it does happen but it seem's that it's ok for some but not others.
Having worked as a volunteer in a rescue centre and seen for myself the results of intentional or 'accidental' litters, I am completely against it. In very exceptional circumstances only, accidents happen, in most cases it is preventable if cats are neutered at the appropriate age. Unless you keep the kittens yourself it is not always possible to guarantee good homes, as a recent case here on Catsey proved, when the kitten herself was allowed to have kittens. :mad:
I also think there are far too many 'acidental' litters reported here on Catsey and this makes me angry. I don't think it matters how many times this topic is discussed, :roll: if it makes one person think twice then it is worth it. However for the record, I know that many of us here on Catsey are against breeding of moggies, but we have new members regularly. :)
I agree 100% Kim.
I was in P&H the other day. There were two Accidental litters on the board:shock: From the same person, different cats and they wanted £150 per kitten. Two litters of 5 kittens X £150 now that's some accident:roll:
Thats no accident, we have people up here who breed moggies because someone wants a certain colour....then charges the earth for them!!
Thats no accident, we have people up here who breed moggies because someone wants a certain colour....then charges the earth for them!!
Haha Ive heard that one before too. They justify it though with the cost of food, litter ect. Just back yard breeders.. no exuses and greedy.
Patch
12-07-2008, 01:06 PM
What surprises me is how many people don`t realise, [ presumably because their vets don`t tell them :evil: ], that queens can be spayed at 3 months of age.
So many people wait until 6 months but of course many kittens can get pregnant at 5 months and bang, it happens, accidental litter from a kitten who is still such a baby herself :?
Having been involved in the past in feral round-ups and doing the post-op care and re-release for kittens and adults I know from experience that they are absolutely fine when done at that age and any of the the kittens I adopted myself over the years, [ including ferals and occasionally kittens I initially fostered with their mother`s who had been dumped for getting pregnant - in those cases I adopted the mothers too ;) ], I have had the young`uns spayed at three months because I know there is simply no need to wait longer than that, [ any existing health issues aside obviously, same as any cat having a GA ] - but how many people generally speaking are aware of it or are not hung up on the old six month landmark which was never about maturity from a medical standpoint but simply an easy-to-remember guideline ?
I`m sure if there were more education out there about it so many accidental litters from baby-queens would`nt happen through people just not knowing their kitten can get pregnant at only five months of age herself :?
candyshandy
12-07-2008, 02:06 PM
I'm sure I've read somewhere that boys neutered too early can get urinary tract problems...... anyone else heard that??
Cant say I have. Would be interested to know though. My vet wont touch a boy under 8 months.
Alison
12-07-2008, 03:06 PM
I'm sure I've read somewhere that boys neutered too early can get urinary tract problems...... anyone else heard that??
I've heard that too.
My vet won't neutered under the age of 6 months & none of my queens have ever come into season before then.
They normaly come into first call between 8 and 10 months. I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong.
candyshandy
12-07-2008, 03:20 PM
I think there have been exceptions though
Yeh, there always are. Cats like humans cant read the rule book:lol:
ellenlouise
12-07-2008, 03:57 PM
This might sound controversial but it is what I think. I have had three female cats and a male and I have been more than tempted to breed from them for selfish reasons such as it would be nice to see them have kittens etc... I obviously decided to neuter my cats as I realised after reading lots and seeing lots that it just isn't sensible. I am not a fan of breeding pedigrees really is most cases as there are so many breeders that do it for money there cats don't live in doors and they seem to just have cats for breeding. Yes you are furthering your lines and making the breed better but why?
I believe the only reason we have accidental litters is because we are to interested in what happens we want to give it ago. This is obviously generalizing and I know there have been accidental litters that could not have been helped and I also know that we have some very good caring breeders but we have to be honest warn people that may just browse on the site.
charliebubs
12-07-2008, 07:09 PM
What surprises me is how many people don`t realise, [ presumably because their vets don`t tell them :evil: ], that queens can be spayed at 3 months of age.
So many people wait until 6 months but of course many kittens can get pregnant at 5 months and bang, it happens, accidental litter from a kitten who is still such a baby herself :?
Having been involved in the past in feral round-ups and doing the post-op care and re-release for kittens and adults I know from experience that they are absolutely fine when done at that age and any of the the kittens I adopted myself over the years, [ including ferals and occasionally kittens I initially fostered with their mother`s who had been dumped for getting pregnant - in those cases I adopted the mothers too ;) ], I have had the young`uns spayed at three months because I know there is simply no need to wait longer than that, [ any existing health issues aside obviously, same as any cat having a GA ] - but how many people generally speaking are aware of it or are not hung up on the old six month landmark which was never about maturity from a medical standpoint but simply an easy-to-remember guideline ?
I`m sure if there were more education out there about it so many accidental litters from baby-queens would`nt happen through people just not knowing their kitten can get pregnant at only five months of age herself :?
I'm all for early neutering, but unfortunately my vets won't do it. Despite the fact that early neutering has been going on in Australia and America for many years a lot of the vets in the UK seem reluctant to do it. My vet says that there hasn't been enough research, which personally I disagree with, if you Google it there is lots of information both for and against.
As a breeder myself I would certainly prefer my kittens to be rehomed already neutered. I have in fact advertised my present litter in my local Pets at Home as leaving here neutered. For me that will exclude the unethical back-street breeder people calling me in the first place :roll:
I am hoping to get my vets to change their minds regarding early neutering, as from what I've heard of other breeders that do it, the kittens actually bounce back from the GA quicker than most 6month plus kittens.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that boys neutered too early can get urinary tract problems...... anyone else heard that??
It has been suggested, but there is actually no research so far as I am aware.
They normaly come into first call between 8 and 10 months. I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong.
This isn't entirely correct. I know that ragdolls can be late starters and my Lily didn't call until she was 14 months old; but every breed is different. I've known of Siamese calling at about 4 months old :shock:
I am not a fan of breeding pedigrees really is most cases as there are so many breeders that do it for money there cats don't live in doors and they seem to just have cats for breeding. Yes you are furthering your lines and making the breed better but why?
I believe the only reason we have accidental litters is because we are to interested in what happens we want to give it ago. This is obviously generalizing and I know there have been accidental litters that could not have been helped and I also know that we have some very good caring breeders but we have to be honest warn people that may just browse on the site.
I agree that there are many breeders that do it for money - even GCCF registered breeders can be unethical, keeping more cats than they should, keeping cats in outdoor pens and then rehoming the cats when they are no longer producing kittens and making money for them :evil: :evil: But please, please don't tar us all with the same brush. Ethical breeders are all for doing something to stop the unethical breeders and the back yard breeders. For me, my cats are my babies and they will always come first and foremost.
As for why we want to "further our lines and better the breed"....I can only speak for myself, but personally, I'm not a breeder on a big scale and nor will I ever be. For me, the joy is in showing my cats and I have bred because I would like to have my own home-bred cats on the show bench and to see them doing well. That would be the ultimate reward. I am not and nor will I ever be in it for money, because to be honest breeding costs a fortune :) I've already had 2 vet trips with my 7 week old kittens because I'm the kind of person that wants any little ailment
checked and double-checked :roll: So my expenses at the moment are already way-up and that's before the vaccinations etc.........but that's my choice and I'm happier to know that my kittens are healthy and well, rather than make any money.
Finally, as for the "accidental" litter debate - having had an accidental litter I do not feel I should involve myself except to say that genuine accidents can happen. I am not an unscrupulous person and nor did I sell those accidental kittens to make any profit - they all went to good homes with friends of mine, or friends of friends. I have also worked at Wood Green Animal Shelter and seen that side of things; I have seen many pregnant cats brought in, or cats with young kittens and have spent a lot of time trying to educate people about the importance of neutering. I am now involved with pedigree rescue and rehoming.
I think it's possible to be an ethical, responsible breeder and also been involved in rehoming. In fact, I think it's essential. It's given me such a better understanding of the bigger picture.
Elaine
13-07-2008, 12:29 AM
I agree that there are many breeders that do it for money - even GCCF registered breeders can be unethical, keeping more cats than they should, keeping cats in outdoor pens and then rehoming the cats when they are no longer producing kittens and making money for them :evil: :evil: But please, please don't tar us all with the same brush. Ethical breeders are all for doing something to stop the unethical breeders and the back yard breeders. For me, my cats are my babies and they will always come first and foremost.
Interesting point, is there anything that the GCCF can do about such breeders?
Patch
13-07-2008, 01:42 AM
I'm all for early neutering, but unfortunately my vets won't do it. Despite the fact that early neutering has been going on in Australia and America for many years a lot of the vets in the UK seem reluctant to do it. My vet says that there hasn't been enough research, which personally I disagree with, if you Google it there is lots of information both for and against.
Cats protection advise 4 month spay for pets, [ as owners presumably are more likely to know where their kitten is at any time for one thing :lol: and can often be very accurate on the age of kitty ], but ferals are done at 3 months - often estimated of course - not least to minimise stress as many are beyond taming that that age so it`s a lot easier on them to be spayed younger rather than keep them confined for a month or more.
The vets I have used have been active for Rescues including feral round up neutering hence they have always been not just willing to spay pets also at 3 months but do suggest it to clients rather than the old fashioned, [ non-medical based ;) ], 6 months of age, so if your own vet won`t do it at that age it would be well worth you talking to a vet who is active for a rescue org to have it done :D
I am hoping to get my vets to change their minds regarding early neutering, as from what I've heard of other breeders that do it, the kittens actually bounce back from the GA quicker than most 6month plus kittens.
Having had it done on my own and doing the after care for feral baby`s at that age I can wholeheartedly and unreservedly confirm that has been my experience of seeing how quickly and easily they have recovered compared to older spays even just of a few months age difference.
The ferals had glue rather than external stitches so they did`nt have to be kept confined to wait for stitch removal time and they were usually fit enough to be re-released after 48 hours - they were released to where they had come from and were monitored for a time after release of course in case any had any problems and needed to be caught again for treatment but I never had to get any of them back in, they sailed through it and I would say the worst of the whole thing for them was being confined around humans for a brief time, but op wise for the young `uns it was as though they did`nt realise they`d had an op at all because pain management is so easy for them as they heal so fast because young tissues regenerate at an amazing rate especially as they are growing so much at that age which from my observations seems to enhance the healing process hugely compared to a 6 month old who`s growth to adult slows a lot by them as they slip into adult build,[ hope my rather poor wording make`s sense, I know what I mean anyway :oops: :lol:
Some more science based info here :
http://www.princeroyalbengals.com/controv.htm
Apparently research was done in Australia which concluded overwhelmingly that the safest and most beneficial ages for spaying is in fact 6 to 8 weeks for girls, 12 weeks for boys, but I can`t find the link to it, I`ll keep searching though and will post it when I do find it :smt001
Many on the thread have mentioned neuter for boys at that they won`t have it done young but it`s the queens which get pregnant not the boys, so the queens need to be done at an age where accidents can be guaranteed to be avoided ;)
Edited to add, forgot to include this link which is quite comprehensive especially as it highlights, [ to me anyway ], that people not feeling comfortable with younger spay - some vets included - is more about what people are traditionally used to rather than trusting in actual medical facts
http://www.messybeast.com/earlyneuter.htm
;-)
I agree that there are many breeders that do it for money - even GCCF registered breeders can be unethical, keeping more cats than they should, keeping cats in outdoor pens and then rehoming the cats when they are no longer producing kittens and making money for them :evil: :evil: But please, please don't tar us all with the same brush. Ethical breeders are all for doing something to stop the unethical breeders and the back yard breeders. For me, my cats are my babies and they will always come first and foremost.
Charlie people dont tar all breeders with the same brush.
This thread is about moggie kittens. Why some people say its an oops litter when it isnt and some jus out and out breed moggies.
Yes sometimes oops litters do happen but not often. Its just how some people seem to get away with breeding moggies and others get hell. I was asking what the difference is.
Your litter was a prime example of a woops. Like you would really put a Ragdoll to a local Tom!!!! and I remember what you went through.
charliebubs
13-07-2008, 10:17 PM
This thread is about moggie kittens. Why some people say its an oops litter when it isnt and some jus out and out breed moggies.
Yes sometimes oops litters do happen but not often. Its just how some people seem to get away with breeding moggies and others get hell. I was asking what the difference is.
Your litter was a prime example of a woops. Like you would really put a Ragdoll to a local Tom!!!! and I remember what you went through.
I understand this thread is about moggie kittens, Jac, but I felt that what I had to say was relevant anyway!!!
Personally, I am against breeding moggies at all. Just for the record :)
Jac, people do purposely put moggy to pedigree all to often. You only have to read the free ads online and they are definitely doing it for money as I have seen these kittens advertised for anything up to £200.
Yes I have too. Quite honestly I think its disgusting. When I saw that add at P&H the other day I saw red. I also blame stores like them for letting people advertise.
Remember when moggies were free? Even then people couldnt give them away. What changed?
ellenlouise
14-07-2008, 12:46 PM
I agree that there are many breeders that do it for money - even GCCF registered breeders can be unethical, keeping more cats than they should, keeping cats in outdoor pens and then rehoming the cats when they are no longer producing kittens and making money for them :evil: :evil: But please, please don't tar us all with the same brush. Ethical breeders are all for doing something to stop the unethical breeders and the back yard breeders. For me, my cats are my babies and they will always come first and foremost.
As for why we want to "further our lines and better the breed"....I can only speak for myself, but personally, I'm not a breeder on a big scale and nor will I ever be. For me, the joy is in showing my cats and I have bred because I would like to have my own home-bred cats on the show bench and to see them doing well. That would be the ultimate reward. I am not and nor will I ever be in it for money, because to be honest breeding costs a fortune :) I've already had 2 vet trips with my 7 week old kittens because I'm the kind of person that wants any little ailment
checked and double-checked :roll: So my expenses at the moment are already way-up and that's before the vaccinations etc.........but that's my choice and I'm happier to know that my kittens are healthy and well, rather than make any money.
Finally, as for the "accidental" litter debate - having had an accidental litter I do not feel I should involve myself except to say that genuine accidents can happen. I am not an unscrupulous person and nor did I sell those accidental kittens to make any profit - they all went to good homes with friends of mine, or friends of friends. I have also worked at Wood Green Animal Shelter and seen that side of things; I have seen many pregnant cats brought in, or cats with young kittens and have spent a lot of time trying to educate people about the importance of neutering. I am now involved with pedigree rescue and rehoming.
I think it's possible to be an ethical, responsible breeder and also been involved in rehoming. In fact, I think it's essential. It's given me such a better understanding of the bigger picture.[/QUOTE]
I would never say that all breeders are bad as obviously the lady I brought Lily off was purely doing it to further the breed and produce healthy well socialised kittens she admitted that she make no money at all because she puts so much money into her cats. She only had one female and a male that was it. Some Breeders are fantastic as I am sure you are it is sad that the majority have to let people like you down!
charliebubs
14-07-2008, 12:49 PM
Thanks Ellenlouise :)
bobbie3917
14-07-2008, 12:59 PM
was there not a lady on here that had either 2 cats of the same breed not on the active reg OR 1 pure breed and 1 cross with the same breed and she was thinking about mating them? the only reason she didnt get kittens from what i recall was that the boy left home never to be seen again, so is that OK?
or is some 1 just trying to have a go at 1 of the members on here cos of what she said about the ladies kitten
is it ok to have two cats find a foster home for them (which was good as she could no longer look after them) but when the times comes for her when she can then have a cat, she dont go and get her cats back she buys a new kitten,
alexgirl73
14-07-2008, 02:02 PM
was there not a lady on here that had either 2 cats of the same breed not on the active reg OR 1 pure breed and 1 cross with the same breed and she was thinking about mating them? the only reason she didnt get kittens from what i recall was that the boy left home never to be seen again, so is that OK?
or is some 1 just trying to have a go at 1 of the members on here cos of what she said about the ladies kitten
is it ok to have two cats find a foster home for them (which was good as she could no longer look after them) but when the times comes for her when she can then have a cat, she dont go and get her cats back she buys a new kitten,
Bang out of order bobbie! Jac did the best thing for her cats, not for her. She put the welfare of them first,and rather having them uprooted yet again, especially when one was susceptible to stress related illnesses, she left them in a loving and genuine home. Upsetting both her and her young daughter.
Muffinmay
14-07-2008, 02:28 PM
was there not a lady on here that had either 2 cats of the same breed not on the active reg OR 1 pure breed and 1 cross with the same breed and she was thinking about mating them? the only reason she didnt get kittens from what i recall was that the boy left home never to be seen again, so is that OK?
or is some 1 just trying to have a go at 1 of the members on here cos of what she said about the ladies kitten
is it ok to have two cats find a foster home for them (which was good as she could no longer look after them) but when the times comes for her when she can then have a cat, she dont go and get her cats back she buys a new kitten,
Hi everyone,
Well after reading some post's i don't think i will be posting again, Yes her cats got fostered and yes she didn't take them back however giving the cats away to a good and loving home what was best for the animal then maybe you should keep your silly school girl petty remarks for your sewing group!
It's been fun!
xx
Muffinmay dont let one person put you off Catsey. You can always block there posts.
As for your childish digs Bobbie at least get your facts right. It was Abi I was going to breed from bought on the "Active" registar.
Nat - I remember you being in a similar situation? Being forced to move for similar reasons and finding you couldn't contain your indoor-only cats to the point where you had to rehome them?
You too now have new cats yourself do you not?
Surely some sensitivity and understanding of Jac's dilemma might be called for here . . .
bobbie3917
14-07-2008, 02:39 PM
well sorry Alex and Jac i didnt know that as i dont read here very often, i did say that finding them a foster home was a good idea, and i did ask that same question on a different post but got no reply so what am i to think?
but it does seam to be jac is having a go at another member for breeding moggy kittens just cos that member said she had her kitten to young. and that person is right and that breeder could get a fine off the GCCF it they were reported for selling kittens so young and with out vac.
i know people shouldnt throw stones when they live in glass houses and i really know that as i have done plenty of things wrong in my life and have learned from them, but it does not make it OK to start a thread that has been done lots and lots of times and 1 not so long ago just to have go at some1 cos of wot she said.
Jac should of know that getting her kitten at 7 weeks would course upset with some people
charliebubs
14-07-2008, 02:43 PM
well sorry Alex and Jac i didnt know that as i dont read here very often, i did say that finding them a foster home was a good idea, and i did ask that same question on a different post but got no reply so what am i to think?
but it does seam to be jac is having a go at another member for breeding moggy kittens just cos that member said she had her kitten to young. and that person is right and that breeder could get a fine off the GCCF it they were reported for selling kittens so young and with out vac.
i know people shouldnt throw stones when they live in glass houses and i really know that as i have done plenty of things wrong in my life and have learned from them, but it does not make it OK to start a thread that has been done lots and lots of times and 1 not so long ago just to have go at some1 cos of wot she said.
Jac should of know that getting her kitten at 7 weeks would course upset with some people
I have to say that I agree with Nat's comment.
The fact that Jac said "who made you God" to one member who stood up for what she believed in and stated that it in indeed WRONG for a GCCF registered breeder to be letting kittens go at 7 weeks - and now has started this thread clearly against that same member :roll: :roll:
It's all a bit churlish - we are all entitled to opinions without it getting personal
My behavourist at my vets, has always said 13 weeks is too old to get as kitten, she advises to get any kitten Moggy or pedigree earlier than that...
well sorry Alex and Jac i didnt know that as i dont read here very often, i did say that finding them a foster home was a good idea, and i did ask that same question on a different post but got no reply so what am i to think?
but it does seam to be jac is having a go at another member for breeding moggy kittens just cos that member said she had her kitten to young. and that person is right and that breeder could get a fine off the GCCF it they were reported for selling kittens so young and with out vac.
i know people shouldnt throw stones when they live in glass houses and i really know that as i have done plenty of things wrong in my life and have learned from them, but it does not make it OK to start a thread that has been done lots and lots of times and 1 not so long ago just to have go at some1 cos of wot she said.
Jac should of know that getting her kitten at 7 weeks would course upset with some people
Possibly you should take time to read before posting then. Actually there were circumstances to getting Ola. there again you wouldn't have read that either would you? As for breeding moggie kittens, that's what this thread is about. You only have to look in the free ads or P&H.
Dont sit in judment of me again. You obviously dont know what your talking about.
charliebubs
14-07-2008, 02:47 PM
My behavourist at my vets, has always said 13 weeks is too old to get as kitten, she advises to get any kitten Moggy or pedigree earlier than that...
Really? That's interesting, Pat. I would think it all depends on how well socialised the kitten is though? :?
But GCCF rules do say 13 weeks - so for a pedigree that should be that ;)
bobbie3917
14-07-2008, 02:47 PM
hi Yola
yes i know, and as Jac i did it for the right reasons, but i found mine new forever homes jac fostered her's out and cos i dont read every post i didnt know that it was best for the cats for them to stay where they were, like i said i am sorry
and it may of been Abi (sorry i cant remember names) but was it not C-Fur (or what every his names was) that was going to be the dad?
i just think its wrong to start a whole thread that is done again and again to have a go at 1 person cos you didnt like what was said (thats the way it looks from here)
and just to let people know my windows are now cat proof so i no longer have the problem i had when i found new homes for my MCs
alexgirl73
14-07-2008, 02:49 PM
There is absolutely NO difference between a pedigree kitten and a moggie kitten, except the price. And if it is alright for people to rehome their moggy kittens at that age (and I bet the majority of people on here have had kittens of that age), then what is the problem with a pedigree?
There are enough unwanted litters out there every year, that imo , NO breeding should take place except under very strict guidlines and better controlled as to who is allowed to do it. Our CP branch is full to bursting again, we have dozens of kittens that we cant rehome, I have 4 and their mum in my pen, plus 2 adult females in my dining room (yet again lol) but no one wants them, yet people will go out and pay hundreds of ££ for a fancier cat. Why? What is the difference? A cat is a cat, and they all do the same thing. Sleep and puur and eat!! I would never pay that sort of money for an animal. All mine have come to me through circumstance and that is the way to go imo, or rescue!
charliebubs
14-07-2008, 02:50 PM
There is absolutely NO difference between a pedigree kitten and a moggie kitten, except the price. And if it is alright for people to rehome their moggy kittens at that age (and I bet the majority of people on here have had kittens of that age), then what is the problem with a pedigree?
There are enough unwanted litters out there every year, that imo , NO breeding should take place except under very strict guidlines and better controlled as to who is allowed to do it. Our CP branch is full to bursting again, we have dozens of kittens that we cant rehome, I have 4 and their mum in my pen, plus 2 adult females in my dining room (yet again lol) but no one wants them, yet people will go out and pay hundreds of ££ for a fancier cat. Why? What is the difference? A cat is a cat, and they all do the same thing. Sleep and puur and eat!! I would never pay that sort of money for an animal. All mine have come to me through circumstance and that is the way to go imo, or rescue!
Purely because it's against the GCCF rules, Alex !!
See you have it wrong again. I was going to take Abi to a breeder. Infact Sarah had sent me a list of them.
bobbie3917
14-07-2008, 02:52 PM
jac i am not sitting in judment nover any 1 but if you dont like it done to you maybe your shouldt do it to others
i know i have had my fear share its not nice but treat others as you wish to be treated
Annestaff
14-07-2008, 03:44 PM
Totally off topic and will I probably be deleting it later but as far as I'm awear Nat when Jac had to get rid of her cats no money changed hands which is how it should be when you rehome, didn't all your pets end up on the findit free adds site for sale?
Totally off topic and will I probably be deleting it later but as far as I'm awear Nat when Jac had to get rid of her cats no money changed hands which is how it should be when you rehome, didn't all your pets end up on the findit free adds site for sale?
Re-homing is re-homing whether money exchanges hands or not. Infact, I am of the opinion that people who are prepared to pay some money for a cat are often more serious about re-homing than those who want one for free. Of course Jac would not of charged anything for her cats because she wasn't selling or re-homing them was she? she was supposed to be having them back, they were only being fostered out ;)
Thats 100 per cent correct. I paid £75 fuel left £50 for food ect and when I said that they could stay didnt charge a penny.
Annestaff
14-07-2008, 04:00 PM
We'll have to beg to differ Fran if you are in a situation where you have no choice but to rehome a pet money is the last thing on your mind, I know I've been there.
Saying that I rehomed through word of mouth and could vet the new owners, doubt those that sell on the crappy freeadds do that :roll:
I wonder what your reasons really were though for not having them back Jac? Perhaps because Caspurr is a Calici carrier and you intended to breed? And of course as he is a known carrier, you couldn't really have charged anything for him anyhow. It's not like you were re-homing a healthy cat is it?
We'll have to beg to differ Fran
yup we will Anne!
I wonder what your reasons really were though for not having them back Jac? Perhaps because Caspurr is a Calici carrier and you intended to breed? And of course as he is a known carrier, you couldn't really have charged anything for him anyhow. It's not like you were re-homing a healthy cat is it?
I know the real reason Jac left him with Emma, and him being a carrier was nothing to do with it, she had not intended breeding Caspurr, only Abi.....She did what was right for the cats, who had settled really well with Emma and he wee boy....
I know she was only intending to breed Abi but no breeder would have a calici carrier in the house or it would be a recipe for breeding disasters. That's how it appears to us, that Jac re-homed Caspurr because he was a carrier and she wished to breed, so Caspurr had to go!
Then if that's the case why didn't I get Abi back then? Why was my only stipulation that she be spayed (and offered to pay for it)
See were not all just out for a buck. I had my cats BEST interest at heart NOT mine or my Daughters.
I know the next thing that's coming. Ola will be on the non active registar.
I know she was only intending to breed Abi but no breeder would have a calici carrier in the house or it would be a recipe for breeding disasters. That's how it appears to us, that Jac re-homed Caspurr because he was a carrier and she wished to breed, so Caspurr had to go!
I truley feel sorry for the way you think.
bobbie3917
14-07-2008, 04:14 PM
so Abi is a ragdoll? i was on about c-fur and perdie (sorry if i have spelt that wrong) that she thought about breeding, and i think that was talked about before cat pagies became catsey so we cant check
charliebubs
14-07-2008, 04:14 PM
come on ladies - let's not make this personal. We can all have opinions without dragging things down :)
I know she was only intending to breed Abi but no breeder would have a calici carrier in the house or it would be a recipe for breeding disasters. That's how it appears to us, that Jac re-homed Caspurr because he was a carrier and she wished to breed, so Caspurr had to go!
That is rubbish, I know Jac better than you, and no how much the loved Caspurr....Just because you breed, although you have done it for long, does not make you the expert!!!:twisted:
Then if that's the case why didn't I get Abi back then?
I am guessing because even you are not heartless enough as to split them up if they have bonded
charliebubs
14-07-2008, 04:16 PM
I am guessing because even you are not heartless enough as to split them up if they have bonded
.......and technically speaking if Caspurr was a carrier of calici, so would Abi be, even if she wasn't shedding
Getting personal Fran tut tut
Getting personal Fran tut tut
kettle calling the pot black comes to mind :roll:
kettle calling the pot black comes to mind :roll:
You should know. Two words Morse, Porsha. I didnt start this but I will end it PK. Oh and when's the next brood due? Opps sorry been born. Poor B liss is nothing but a breeding machine:twisted:
You should know. Two words Morse, Porsha. I didnt start this but I will end it PK. Oh and when's the next brood due? Opps sorry been born. Poor B liss is nothing but a breeding machine:twisted:
You know nothing about Morse and Porsha and I haven't got a problem with re-homing anyhow, just lies about why it's done jac ;) Bliss is 2 and a half and has just had her second litter - hardly a breeding machine and her kittens don't leave me until they are 13 weeks old minimum ;)
charliebubs
14-07-2008, 04:29 PM
You should know. Two words Morse, Porsha. I didnt start this but I will end it PK. Oh and when's the next brood due? Opps sorry been born. Poor B liss is nothing but a breeding machine:twisted:
Come on, Jac
That's really harsh and a step too far :(
Come on, Jac
That's really harsh and a step too far :(
Not a step too far is when you get personal and dont have a clue what your talking about.
The trouble is I'm being judged by someone elses scheeming standards.
I asked before How many puppies? How many kittens?
charliebubs
14-07-2008, 04:35 PM
Not a step too far is when you get personal and dont have a clue what your talking about.
The trouble is I'm being judged by someone elses scheeming standards.
I asked before How many puppies? How many kittens?
Jac, you are equally as guilty of getting personal as Fran is.
Fran does have a clue what she's talking about when it comes to the welfare of her animals and their best interests.
I can see that we're fighting a losing battle trying to reason with you when you're like this though.
I agree with what Nat said earlier - people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. :)
Can we all just agree to disagree!?!?!?
Not a step too far is when you get personal and dont have a clue what your talking about.
The trouble is I'm being judged by someone elses scheeming standards.
I asked before How many puppies? How many kittens?
All within GCCF and KC rules and regulations Jac ;) You are really struggling Jac, you'll find no dirt to throw regarding my kittens and puppies that's for sure!
Got it wrong again. I'm the one that said people that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
When you pay my bills....I'll answer to you
charliebubs
14-07-2008, 04:40 PM
well sorry Alex and Jac i didnt know that as i dont read here very often, i did say that finding them a foster home was a good idea, and i did ask that same question on a different post but got no reply so what am i to think?
but it does seam to be jac is having a go at another member for breeding moggy kittens just cos that member said she had her kitten to young. and that person is right and that breeder could get a fine off the GCCF it they were reported for selling kittens so young and with out vac.
i know people shouldnt throw stones when they live in glass houses and i really know that as i have done plenty of things wrong in my life and have learned from them, but it does not make it OK to start a thread that has been done lots and lots of times and 1 not so long ago just to have go at some1 cos of wot she said.
Jac should of know that getting her kitten at 7 weeks would course upset with some people
No, Jac - Nat said it.
Now who's getting their facts wrong :roll: :roll:
Why is it that 1 particular member on this forum can continually get personal with several different members of this forum and keep getting away with it,but the minute anybody says anything personal back to this person its wrong? :roll:
Jac dont rise to it,its not worth it :)
This thread has gone way off topic,we are talking about Moggies here,not Jac rehoming abi and caspurr,not the GCCF rules (there is aother thread for that) and like Elaine said its a topic that needs to keep being discussed on this forum!
No, Jac - Nat said it.
Now who's getting their facts wrong :roll: :roll:
actually charlie jac said it on her pic thread but all off topic posts got deleted.
Think they need deleting off here too :roll:
Annestaff
14-07-2008, 04:47 PM
Locked pending admin review
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