Kidney Confusion - any vets here?

[Gaina]

((Hello All))

Sorry it's been so long since I was here - I have just finished my first year at University and the last few weeks got a bit hectic :D

Anyhoo.....

I took Billy to have his teeth cleaned yesterday (well, the few he has left anyway, poor little mite! haha).

The vet nurse rang me to tell me that he had come out of the aneasthetic with no problems, but that they had checked his kidney levels with a blood test as this is standard proceadure on cats of 10 and over before giving aneasthestic and he had 'slightly raised levels'. Apparently normal is 12.5 and his were 14.4, but this was nothing to be alarmed about and they'd see him again in 6 months.

I tried to find out what these 'levels' are in terms of the name of substances in order to understand what's going on and what I can do in the meantime to help him but I'm no wiser than I was at the start of the call!

If there's a vet here who can explain this to me I'd be very grateful. I had a look online for some info on this type of test and the things it checks and the closest I could find with a normal range starting at 12 was 'BUN'.

Thanks in advance

Gaina x

[pinklizzy]

That seems quite odd to me, why didn't the vet let you know about the blood results before going ahead with the procedure and possibly given you the option to have IV fluids before and during the anaesthetic?
Obviously I don't know the exact tests your vet carried out but typically when running a bichemistry blood profile, you would look at two main levels-Urea (also known as Blood Urea Nitrogen or BUN) and creatinine, these are both waste products that are removed from the circulation by the kidneys, any increase in the levels of these products can indicate a degree of kidney diease.
I think I'd ask your vet if both of these gave high readings, a slightly high urea can also be caused by dehydration. It may also be a good idea to carry out a test for phosphorus and potassium levels (electrolytes) and urinalysis. In kidney disease, the ability to concentrate urine decreases, which is why some owners notice that their cat is passing more urine than normal.
You can help Billy by increasing his water intake and maybe by feeding a diet with reduced levels of protein, phosphorus/phosphate and sodium.
Hope that helps.

[Gaina]

That seems quite odd to me, why didn't the vet let you know about the blood results before going ahead with the procedure and possibly given you the option to have IV fluids before and during the anaesthetic?
Obviously I don't know the exact tests your vet carried out but typically when running a bichemistry blood profile, you would look at two main levels-Urea (also known as Blood Urea Nitrogen or BUN) and creatinine, these are both waste products that are removed from the circulation by the kidneys, any increase in the levels of these products can indicate a degree of kidney diease.
I think I'd ask your vet if both of these gave high readings, a slightly high urea can also be caused by dehydration. It may also be a good idea to carry out a test for phosphorus and potassium levels (electrolytes) and urinalysis. In kidney disease, the ability to concentrate urine decreases, which is why some owners notice that their cat is passing more urine than normal.
You can help Billy by increasing his water intake and maybe by feeding a diet with reduced levels of protein, phosphorus/phosphate and sodium.
Hope that helps.

Hello PinkLizzy :)

Thanks for your prompt reply. The vet nurse did say that if it has been high enough to cause concern they would have put him on an IV, but it was extremely low so there was nothing to worry about as they see far older cats with much higher counts that do fine.

He always has a bowl of fresh water available as well as his 'cat milk' and I check it frequently throughout the day for any noticeably excessive drinking (I'm probably a bit of a paranoid parent but he's my pride and joy ;) ).

One thing I did wonder: He was very poorly last year after his boosters (the reason I joined this forum actually) and we never actually found out what it was although I suspect it may have been a reaction as this time it was his 'big dose' so could that have affected him?

Thanks for the help, and I'll be sure to let you know what the vet says when I take him back for his 'follow up' visit for the dental work in 10 days :)

[pinklizzy]

Hope everything goes well for him at his 10-day check, I didn't mean to be critical of your vets as 14 isn't too high (not sure whether they meant urea or creatinine?) although I probably would still have given you the option! ;)
Anyway, it sounds as if you've been keeping a close eye on him already and he isn't polydipsic (increased water intake) that's a good sign.

[Gaina]

Hope everything goes well for him at his 10-day check, I didn't mean to be critical of your vets as 14 isn't too high (not sure whether they meant urea or creatinine?) although I probably would still have given you the option! ;)
Anyway, it sounds as if you've been keeping a close eye on him already and he isn't polydipsic (increased water intake) that's a good sign.

That's quite alright, to be honest I'm becoming uneasy about this particular practice because the annual bill for his boosters is going up quite considerably every year. But thats by the by...

He's absolutely mental today! For some reason he's always really hyperactive when he comes back having had aneasthetic! He would not got to bed last night, and today he's either having 'power naps' or rampaging around the house and garden - nothing in the middle! Haha. (they must be some good drugs, I wonder if I can get some too? :lol: ).

[Kim]

Hi, I can't help re his raised kidney levels, but PK has given you such a good reply anyway..

However, re his annual boosters. Have you considered stopping them? Once my cats reach about 7 I stop their bosters as I personally don't feel it is necessary. 2 of my cats regularly had bad reactions from them, 1 quite serious and I just don't see the point. They have built up enough immunity in my opinion and there is a lot of controversy as to whether annual boosters are necessary. My vet even agreed with me and said he no longer vaccinates his own cat! Obviously these are my thoughts, but maybe worth considering. :)

[Gaina]

Hi, I can't help re his raised kidney levels, but PK has given you such a good reply anyway..

However, re his annual boosters. Have you considered stopping them? Once my cats reach about 7 I stop their bosters as I personally don't feel it is necessary. 2 of my cats regularly had bad reactions from them, 1 quite serious and I just don't see the point. They have built up enough immunity in my opinion and there is a lot of controversy as to whether annual boosters are necessary. My vet even agreed with me and said he no longer vaccinates his own cat! Obviously these are my thoughts, but maybe worth considering. :)

Kim, that's a very good point. I remember watching a program about boosters on TV a few years ago and amongst the sensationalism you get with these kinds of programs I learned an interesting fact that some american vets actually do a blood test before you get the boosters to see what the cat or dogs' immune system is like first. I think this would be a good thing to impliment here.

When I go back in 10 days I'm going to have a chat about the boosters with my vet and see what she says as I'm never going to put him (or me!) through that again if I can avoid it.

Do your cats have access to outdoors? Billy likes to go and visit the girls next door (who are well cared for and vaccinated) and sometimes has the odd 'punch up' with a cat who I know for fact is not vaccinated so I have to consider that too.

Thanks for our input, anyway :)

[dandysmom]

Boosters are controversial here in the States also for older cats. My former vet did not encourage them; Leia does not have them. She is an indoor only cat, however.

[Elaine]

Cannt add anything much to what PL has already said other than, try not to worry too much about the creatinine and urea levels, expecially as they werent particularly high. Quite often if a cat has bad teeth or a gum infection, these can affect these levels as can stress. These levels are variable and can be brought back into normal range.
Is it your cats teeth or is it the gums that are the problem? Maybe a little slippery elm bark, added to the cats food, may help. Slippery elm bark can be good to sooth sore or inflamed gums. It can help with a number of complaints but does have its cautions too, i.e. should always be given either an hour before or after any other meds as it can inhibit the absorption of the meds. If you do consider using it, do consult your vet before doing so.
I personally have had some good results from using it and am currently using it to try to help Bernies inflamed gum problem.

[Kim]

Hi again Gaina

You can have your cats blood tested to establish their level of immunity, it is called titre testing. Most vets will encourage boosters as it is a good part of their income! Yes, my cats do go outside, but I still feel they have enough immunity now to cope with most things, and I have very healthy cats! I know of a few dogs that have become very ill (and 1 died) as a result of over immunisation, and after weighing up all the facts have made my choice. As I said a personal one, I wouldn't dream of telling you want to do, but just giving you another possibility to consider. :)

[angieh]

Hi Kim - thanks for the info on titre testing. When I googled it, all I could find was info on dogs. You don't perhaps have a link to hand about usage is cats????

[Kim]

Oh, I am sorry then I may have misled you. I know titre testing is done on dogs and just assumed cats could be tested too. Maybe not then, although I can't see why. I'm sorry I don't have a link.