View Full Version : Another dog attack hits the news
This time it's an elderly Poodle that has been killed in it's own garden by 2 Staffordshire Bull terriers :evil:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7268771.stm
Oh that is so, so sad. :( To get to 15 and end his life like that. As the article says he stood no chance. He should have been safe in his own garden. What on earth were these staffies doing out to allow this to happen? They get enough bad press without owners being so totally irresponsible. :evil:
Its not the dogs its the owners.....not read the article yet though so will read and then reply from there.
Its not the dogs its the owners.....not read the article yet though so will read and then reply from there.
In the main I do agree. However, my experience of staffies is not good so I don't trust them and stories like this don't really do much to change my opinion :?
That is so awful. That poor dog stood no chance at all. His poor owner must be in total shock.
R.I.P. Giamo.
dandysmom
28-02-2008, 09:57 PM
How dreadful! Dumb question: are Staffies akin to or are they what we call pit bulls here? Pit bulls and rottweilers are the ones here involved mostly in maiming/killing incidents.....
smudgley
28-02-2008, 10:43 PM
How dreadful! Dumb question: are Staffies akin to or are they what we call pit bulls here? Pit bulls and rottweilers are the ones here involved mostly in maiming/killing incidents.....
No they are 2 different breeds.
Staffies are staffordshire bull terriers.
American pit bulls are banned in this country... however, these 2 were actually staffy crosses, so could well be pit bull type.
Nobody knows what happened, noone was there when the attack took place. I know there is no excuse for this type of behaviour, but is it sensible to leave a 15 year old dog alone all day with access to the garden....I don't think so.
dandysmom
28-02-2008, 10:58 PM
Thanks, Smudgley; I wondered ..........
Smudgley, I was under the impression that the owners of the poodle witnessed the attack, so the dog was not alone?? and I tbh I think it is fair to say that if your garden is fenced so your own animals can't get out then you would and could assume they would be safe from other dogs. The owners of those dogs were in the wrong for allowing their dogs to get in to someone else's garden, it should never have happened imo
smudgley
28-02-2008, 11:12 PM
Smudgley, I was under the impression that the owners of the poodle witnessed the attack, so the dog was not alone?? and I tbh I think it is fair to say that if your garden is fenced so your own animals can't get out then you would and could assume they would be safe from other dogs. The owners of those dogs were in the wrong for allowing their dogs to get in to someone else's garden, it should never have happened imo
Noone was in. I heard the owner of the poodle being interviewed on Radio WM (local radio) early this morning and she said they leave the dog at home all day with the back door open. The son found him when he got home at 3pm.
Of course the owners of the staffy x's were in the wrong. And your right that you would assume your dogs were safe from other dogs in your own garden, but i still think it's irresponsible to leave a dog unsupervised in a garden like that when you are out.
borderdawn
28-02-2008, 11:25 PM
Noone was in. I heard the owner of the poodle being interviewed on Radio WM (local radio) early this morning and she said they leave the dog at home all day with the back door open. The son found him when he got home at 3pm.
Of course the owners of the staffy x's were in the wrong. And your right that you would assume your dogs were safe from other dogs in your own garden, but i still think it's irresponsible to leave a dog unsupervised in a garden like that when you are out.
Especially a 15yr old dog, and from what I gather, a very low fence that would allow a healthy dog easy access.
Quite a lot of people have dog flaps and allow their dogs ad-lib access to the garden. No, I don't think there is anything wrong or irresponsible about this as long as your dog is not able to get out of your garden. It's the owners of the staffies that have been irresponsible in my book :? there are obviously discrepencies in this story as what you are saying you heard on the radio does not match the story on the BBC news website nor the other news story I heard about it today :?
smudgley
28-02-2008, 11:31 PM
Quite a lot of people have dog flaps and allow their dogs ad-lib access to the garden. No, I don't think there is anything wrong or irresponsible about this as long as your dog is not able to get out of your garden. It's the owners of the staffies that have been irresponsible in my book :? That is what I said too there are obviously discrepencies in this story as what you are saying you heard on the radio does not match the story on the BBC news website nor the other news story I heard about it today :?
Don't know what you heard, but I definitly (can never spell that bloomin' word) heard the owner of the poodle on the radio at 6.45am she was on for quite a length of time & clearly said the dog was on his own all day & the son found it dead in the garden when he got home. Which is really sad & I feel very sorry this happened & feel sorry for the poor dog, but I still think that people who leave their dogs in the garden (dog flap / door open / other) are not very resposible.
From reading the BBC news website the owners were at home as it happened in the evening and the lady saw the two dogs clear her garden fence and it was her that described the dogs. She could hardly have done this if she wasn't there. I would like to think that an animal is safe in its own enclosed gardens and the owners are definitely in the wrong allowing their dogs to run free. I agree with you on this Fran.
I feel it is such a shame that such owners are yet again giving a breed a bad name. All the Staffies I know are absolutely gorgeous natured.
See I disagree, yes they risk their dog being stolen and they take that risk but they should never have the worry of someone else's killer dog invading/trespassing their property :roll:
smudgley
28-02-2008, 11:36 PM
From reading the BBC news website the owners were at home as it happened in the evening and the lady saw the two dogs clear her garden fence and it was her that described the dogs. She could hardly have done this if she wasn't there. I would like to think that an animal is safe in its own enclosed gardens and the owners are definitely in the wrong allowing their dogs to run free. I agree with you on this Fran.
I feel it is such a shame that such owners are yet again giving a breed a bad name. All the Staffies I know are absolutely gorgeous natured.
See I disagree, yes they risk their dog being stolen and they take that risk but they should never have the worry of someone else's killer dog invading/trespassing their property :roll:
Whatever... :roll:
I won't keep repeatng myelf.
The family pet called Gizmo was set upon in the garden in Harborne, Birmingham, on Wednesday evening. Carole Bishop said her pet was found decapitated after what she described as two Staffordshire bull terriers jumped her fence.
Where in that sentence does it say she was there?
I heard the lady herself say noone was in.
From reading the BBC news website the owners were at home as it happened in the evening and the lady saw the two dogs clear her garden fence and it was her that described the dogs. She could hardly have done this if she wasn't there. I would like to think that an animal is safe in its own enclosed gardens and the owners are definitely in the wrong allowing their dogs to run free. I agree with you on this Fran.
I feel it is such a shame that such owners are yet again giving a breed a bad name. All the Staffies I know are absolutely gorgeous natured.
I feel so sorry for ther family and the dog, but wish so much the news reports would get it right, they were Staffy x's.....As you say Kay once again irresponsible owners have given Staffs a bad name...:(
borderdawn
28-02-2008, 11:39 PM
So how do they know what Dogs attacked hers then if nobody saw them?
smudgley
28-02-2008, 11:39 PM
I feel so sorry for ther family and the dog, but wish so much the news reports would get it right, they were Staffy x's.....As you say Kay once again irresponsible owners have given Staffs a bad name...:(
thankyou Moli. ;) As I said earlier, they were staffy crosses!
smudgley
28-02-2008, 11:40 PM
So how do they know what Dogs attacked hers then if nobody saw them?
From what I understand, the son got home at 3pm and the poodle was dead in the garden, but the 2 other dogs were there too. One in the house, one in the garden.
I'm afraid that all the Staffie's I know are really nasty and would kill other dogs/cats :( I have no good experiences of staffies at all :? Staffie crosses or not they have those Staffie traits I'm afraid
Its very unfortunate you do not know any nice Staffies PK, my girls would not hurt a fly, yes some are dog aggressive, but not all of them...
Its very unfortunate you do not know any nice Staffies PK, my girls would not hurt a fly, yes some are dog aggressive, but not all of them...
Yes it is a shame I don't have any good experiences but I don't and i know a few. Even at the vets yesterday when I took Mil for speying, a staffie owner was asked by staff to remove their dog and wait outside as it was positively desperate to attack other dogs in the surgery :shock: :?
Yes it is a shame I don't have any good experiences but I don't and i know a few. Even at the vets yesterday when I took Mil for speying, a staffie owner was asked by staff to remove their dog and wait outside as it was positively desperate to attack other dogs in the surgery :shock: :?
She should not have been in the waiting room with a dog like that..:mad:
Hubby and I were talking about this story tonight and even he, macho man, said he wouldn't trust his mother's Staffie. I certainly wouldn't trust her round my children let alone my pets. She has been in court because her Staffie attacked another dog and caught a child in a pram in the process :shock: Mil is lucky she still has that dog, I feel everyone else in the community is very unlucky and that she should have been pts. I just don't do aggresive dogs at all, I'm sorry but there is no excuse of risk to life from attack be it human or animal..
Smudgley, Fran and I have both read the same news and this is it. It clearly states she saw them clear her gate and that she knew what type of dog they were.
'The family pet called Gizmo was set upon in the garden in Harborne, Birmingham, on Wednesday evening.
Carole Bishop said her pet was found decapitated after what she described as two Staffordshire bull terriers jumped her fence.
.
'Like a toy'
Ms Bishop said her pet had been in the garden.
"They cleared my garden gate, jumped in and massacred my dog," she said.
"He was 15, he had cataracts and hardly any teeth. "What chance would he have stood against those big animals, they threw him around like a toy."
Could be the media have got wires crossed it has been known.
I would certainly not keep a dog like that...My girls were trained and socialized from day one, they are determined dogs, and initially you have to keep on top of them.
smudgley
28-02-2008, 11:59 PM
Smudgley, Fran and I have both read the same news and this is it. It clearly states she saw them clear her gate and that she knew what type of dog they were. Where does it clearly say that?
'The family pet called Gizmo was set upon in the garden in Harborne, Birmingham, on Wednesday evening.
Carole Bishop said her pet was found decapitated after what she described as two Staffordshire bull terriers jumped her fence.
.
'Like a toy'
Ms Bishop said her pet had been in the garden.
"They cleared my garden gate, jumped in and massacred my dog," she said.
"He was 15, he had cataracts and hardly any teeth. "What chance would he have stood against those big animals, they threw him around like a toy."
Could be the media have got wires crossed it has been known.
If you talk about the bit sying they threw him around like a toy, then obviously they did - if he was in the state they say he was.
It says they cleared the gate. It doesn't say she saw them.
How would she know that they had cleared her garden gate if she hadn't seen them?
borderdawn
29-02-2008, 12:21 AM
From what I understand, the son got home at 3pm and the poodle was dead in the garden, but the 2 other dogs were there too. One in the house, one in the garden.
Ahh ok, thats explains it.
smudgley
29-02-2008, 09:45 AM
How would she know that they had cleared her garden gate if she hadn't seen them?
Can't be bothered with this thread anymore, but in answer to your Q. If they got in & killed the dog & there were no gates open, then I guess it's fairly obvious they cleared the fence.
I am only telling you what the lady herself said on the radio. Can't see why she'd say they weren't there if they were. :roll:
Not posting on this thread anymore. :)
Sadly this thread is beginning to turn into a tirade against Staffies and it is unfair to suggest all Staffies are nasty and would kill/maim cats and dogs. Any breed of dog can turn nasty if it hasn't had the proper training.
Sadly this thread is beginning to turn into a tirade against Staffies and it is unfair to suggest all Staffies are nasty and would kill/maim cats and dogs. Any breed of dog can turn nasty if it hasn't had the proper training.
So very true Mags, think this thread has run its course now...
borderdawn
29-02-2008, 04:31 PM
I think the problem with Staffies is they are capable of a LOT of damage WHEN they attack. In all honesty I board hundreds every year and we do not see any more dog aggressive ones than we do other breeds, its just that when they do attack they inflict such a lot of damage very quickly, and in this case, two would be worse than one.
I have banned more Labradors and Spaniels for aggression issues than I have Staffies.
There is no doubt there are many that are nasty with other dogs, we have a couple round here, but just the other day, I was on the common with my 3 Borders, and we met a few other people, in all we had 4 Borders, 1 PRT puppy, 1 GSD, 1 Golden Retriever, 1 Lurcher and a Border Collie. Along came a red entire Staffie male, round the corner from nowhere, Orey went to meet him, saw he had a ball on a rope in his mouth and he just took it from him! The Staffie never did a thing, he then had a PRT puppy bouncing on him and all the other dogs sniffing him till they checked him out, not a word, a normal well balanced Dog, who's owner was delighted that he was seen as a dog and not a monster! Pit Bull Terriers are a whole different issue, and whilst I think Staffies can be very dangerous in the wrong hand, they should never be judged purely by their history and most definately never compared or likened to a Pit Bull.
Dawn.
I think that the owners were wrong to leave their dog in the garden alone (if that was the case) however, you really would think that you dog was safe in your own garden. I think the staffy owners are at fault for allowing their dogs to do this. I have met quite a few staffies, some good, some vicious, in most cases the owners have made their dogs like this. Nothing personal, though but a staffy is not a dog I would ever choose to own.
Yet another blow, I do feel that eventually these poor souls will end up as hated as Pits!:(
I can speak from the voice of experience, of someone who from birth was in a house around MULTIPLE INTACT staffords [we had five at one time, plus two dobes and a little old n evil pekingese:evil::lol:] and can safely say, ours lived with other dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea-pigs, chickens, ducks, ferrets-You name it! And never we're bothered. We had one dog who disliked strange dogs approaching him if he was on lead, offlead he was fine but on lead he was different, and he was attacked quite badly as a pup. And we had one little boy who was pts on vet advice, he suffered greatly from epilepsy and was beginning to have "black out time" where he was really unstable as it were, my memorys a bit shaky on this one..I was quite small at the time and remember blocking it out a lot. Anyway I digress, live with a well bred, well socalized stafford before casting a response. By this I mean a stafford from a good breeder..not bred from a pair of dogs owned by some yobs, that vaguley resemble staffords. Bring one up as you would a lab, or a spaniel without holding the view "God it's a stafford, I must treat it like a time bomb". And then see what a level and loving family pet you get. You can't infact beat the love a stafford has for it's children, and they are most definatley it's children..not the owners. I think it's very unfair that as a breed they are headhunted so strictly by people who hold an obvious dislike for them as a breed, when in reality they probably have never known a TRUE stafford.
As Dawn said, they are a dog that if they were to "go" could do an awful lot of damage. But so could a Labrador, so could my English Springer as he's got a lot more weight and structure than any of our staffords, so could a collie..the list is endless really.
It's not labs and spaniels etc.. that we hear of killing children and pet animals though is it Luke?
The fact of the matter is that these are Staffie's or crosses thereof and it's certainly not the first story of it's kind. I'm sorry you will never convert me especially when stories of this nature hit the headlines coupled with my very bad experiences of the breed :?
And this one was only a couple of weeks ago - a child involved on this occasion :evil:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/7246192.stm
dinahsmum
01-03-2008, 12:22 PM
..:roll:..
Soupie
01-03-2008, 12:38 PM
Unfortunately any dog has the potential to be violent that's where correct training and responsible dog ownership comes in same as with any animal - I was savaged by a poodle as a child :shock: and you don't hear of many poodle attacks.....
It's an awful situation and although terrible it has happened I have to give some credit to the staffie cross owners for taking the responsible decision.
As an aside I have only ever met well socialised and beautifully behaved staffies and I am terrified of dogs so prone to think all are evil :oops:
If there is anyone to blame it is the owners of the dogs that killed the Poodle.
Additionaly, the owners of the Poodle should perhaps think about taking some responsibility for making sure their dog was not safe/secure at all times.
It would be interesting to see the garden, how secure it was, how big the fence was etc.
Do we actually know the dogs were Staffs? Or were they Staff crosses? Were they owned by 'wannabee ard' idiots?
ANY dog can be vicious! The two most nastiest dog aggressive dogs I have ever come across are a male chocolate lab and a male black border collie (who is also human aggressive!).
Yes, there is only so much you can do, but we'd need to know a _lot_ more about the incident before making any type of judgement.
Also, it's worth noting the highest number of reported dog bites on humans in this country are not by staffs, not by pitts - but Border Collies!
Going back to staffs - they are victims at this time because they are in fashion to the wannabe hard idiots. Take away the staffs and they'll go for 'the next best thing'. Keep doing that and one day you might find your own breed or a cross of your breed is the target. Did you know that lab crosses can fit the pit bull type too?
Punish the deed not the breed! We need better control of back yard breeders breeding to make a buck! And more control on who can and can't own a dog - send the owners to dog school, god knows so many need educating! :evil:
Annestaff
01-03-2008, 04:14 PM
Responsible Bull Breed owners are fully awear of the potential of their dogs, whats scarey is the fact that many pet dog owners are not and are blind to the fact that their precious pooch whatever the breed can cause just as much damage.
Did you know a lab was responsible for the first face transplant after mauling its owners face off? In Ireland this year a collie attacked a child the dog warden reported it was the worst dog attack he had ever seen. Maybe these sort of cases need bringing to light more so people realise its not just Bull Breeds that can cause damage.
Now who's the responsible owners? the ones that are awear of their dog potential or those dog owners who have their head in the sand who havn't a clue what their dog is capable of.
borderdawn
01-03-2008, 04:38 PM
It's not labs and spaniels etc.. that we hear of killing children and pet animals though is it Luke?
The fact of the matter is that these are Staffie's or crosses thereof and it's certainly not the first story of it's kind. I'm sorry you will never convert me especially when stories of this nature hit the headlines coupled with my very bad experiences of the breed :?
The sustained attack of a Staffie will do more harm in seconds than a lot of breeds in minutes, doesnt mean the offending animal is more nasty, just that the Staff is better equipped.
Ill be perfectly honest Fran, we board some awful tempered Labs, I have myself been attacked and my boss had a piece out of her stomach taken out by a lab. They, on the whole, tend to be more unpredictable as a breed when boarding. You will also find that many dogs that attack and harrass others are Labs, usually black ones (for some reason) we have 2 here, one is lethal the other just a damn nuisance and tied to an equally useless owner!
All dogs can bite, dependant on the breed of dog will depend on the severity of the attack and what damage is done is that time. Whilst I agree that the Pit Bull should be strictly controlled and I personally do not think they should be kept as pets, the Staff is a far cry from them.
Dawn.
Elaine
01-03-2008, 05:55 PM
20 Years ago it was the german shepherd, then it was the rottie and the boxer, today its the staffie. Its a damned shame, how many more breeds are to be damned before people realise that its the irresponsible owners that are the real danger.
I personally love the staffie, I fear being head butted by them than being bitten. I am much more scared of the Neds who breed and cross breed these dogs, when a ned enters our shop with a dog, I am always wary and not of the dog regardless of the breed.
We have several staffie owners on the forum, all live with cats and other dogs. Kazz's vet has on atleast one occasion I know of asked her to bring her dogs along to help socialise other dogs. I would not have any hesitations about meeting any of the staffies that own Catsey members;)
Well I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Certain traits are bred into certain breeds, obviously, as that is why different breeds have different abilities/jobs etc.. There are extremes/exceptions in every breed and the owners play a big part too but certain breeds like staffies are appearing far too frequently in the news for my liking, coupled with my own personal bad experiences of them, I just don't like nor trust them I'm afraid
Thing is, labs and goldies DO have a pretty high attack rate, but that's also bearing in mind they are a numerically high breed anyway, as do Border Collies..heck as do most breeds of dogs, but the difference..most breeds are not painted with the image of the minion of the antichrists by the media. Most dog breeds aren't eagerly anticipated by the media prior to an attack, just to boost their sales.
Like Dawn, I have met some foul tempered labs..especially on shoots, but I've also met many nice ones. We had a foster type lab at one point, she infact did some damage bite wise to someone..and totally unwarranted. But, I do not tarr this breed vile and naturally aggressive. My bad experiences tend to be focused around Border Collies and Boxers; yet I do not treat them any different and infact the latter is on my wish list for years to come.
As the old addage says, the bad apple within the barrel. And there are many barrels which make up this life, all of whom have at least one bad apple.
Give me a well bred stafford pup to bring up, and I'd snap your hands off. Though I think a lot of the problem is the "pikey" bred dogs that are of unsound temperament and a far cry from a true stafford in looks and personality.
I personally feel it very unfair to condem a breed by newspaper reports, I can understand that you have had bad experiences of the breed PK, but have you ever met a normal well socialised, well mannered Staffie, because there any many of them about...My son was brought up from a baby with 2 staffies, mytwo girls I have now mother any kitten that come into the house, they are good with any other animal, be it dog, cat etc, infact I can walk them past sheep and they do not bother totally ignore them....If we maybe had a good report now and then in the papers, maybe peiople would realise not all staffies are aggressive. It just takes one mindless owner who cannot control their dog, to cause trouble for the responsible owners.....
Well I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Certain traits are bred into certain breeds, obviously, as that is why different breeds have different abilities/jobs etc.. There are extremes/exceptions in every breed and the owners play a big part too but certain breeds like staffies are appearing far too frequently in the news for my liking, coupled with my own personal bad experiences of them, I just don't like nor trust them I'm afraid
I agree Fran that certain breeds have certain traits, etc. The greyhound is good for chasing, running, doesn't mean that all greys would kill a cat! As Az says, the owners are the problem; staffs can be a fashion statement or make their owners look 'hard' and they train their dog to be vicious/attack. Just look at the owner of the staffy who killed the toddler on New Years Day last year. The dog is only doing what it was trained for, which sadly means the situation is often like a time bomb. I have come across some lovely staffys on my walks with my dogs and 2 in particular are extremely well trained and obedient. However, a lady I meet has a staffy that attacked another dog without any povocation whatsoever :roll: Although I guess most breeds are capable of this. Unfortunately, the other dog sustained nasty injuries even though the attack only lasted a very short while. The media definitely seem to have it in for staffys and any attacks by them seem to be reported. I agree that you should punish the deed NOT the breed! :)
And another one :? :? :? .....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7278085.stm
Just because it looks like a staff, doesn't mean it is one - this is what many people have been trying to point out.
You have people breeding the offical KC reg staff, which is far removed from what back yard breeders are breeding - they are breeding 'Irish' lines that have been used in the (more recent) past for fighting etc
They are like different breeds. I would be VERY surprised if ANY of the dogs in these attacks were proper KC registered Staffordshire bull Terriers.
How about we start posting some positive stories on this thread because it seems to me its turning into a bit of a witch hunt,hey fran? Several valued members of this forum who are responsible Staffy owners have been sickened by this.These people understand their dogs breed,have never had any cause to worried about their dogs behaviour because they are just that "responsible owners".
I have to agree with Az about the Bull Terrier Type as there are many backyard breeders breeding these types. The UK KC sums them us as Extremely reliable, highly intelligent and affectionate, especially with children.
I think that it would have been much fairer Fran if you would have acknowledged that there are responsible Staffy owners with well behaved staffys on the forum.
http://community.livejournal.com/stop_bsl/130606.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7200006.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/6922746.stm
http://www.cleverstaffords.co.uk/clever4.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7239464.stm
Elaine
06-03-2008, 12:22 PM
Good to see some possitve stories about the breed for a change. Shame the positvie stories aren't as sensationalised by the media as the negative are. I feel very sorry for all the responsible staffy owners that have to bear the brunt of this breed hate campaign.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7239464.stm
Elaine, I read this report several weeks ago on the BBC website and I was heartened by its content. I did think about DM, Karen and Moli whilst reading it. I can't comment as I don't have any experience of SBTs at all - good or bad, but then I have a general wariness of all dogs and always have had.
Erin, I'm afraid that I don't know that there are responsible staffy owners on here, that own friendly staffies. People on here are after all 'cyber' people, they could tell us anything about themselves and who are we to argue as we don't know them?? I speak from 'real' experiences of the breed which in my case have not been good experiences and I'm sickend that day after day, children, other dogs and pets are being injured and attacked by not only staffies but certain other breeds too. Whilst I agree all breeds have the potential to injure, seemingly certain breeds do so a great deal more than others. How would you feel if it was your child injured by one of these dogs? I know how it feels as I know someone who's child has been attacked by one and I've witnessed an attack in our local park where two young boys playing footie were set upon by a staffie off it's lead. I'm aftraid that if petitions ever came into ban the breed I would sign them. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I appreciate that just as I am entitled to mine ;)
Fran - how do you know they were _actual_ staffs? As I said in my first post, just because they look like staffs doesn't mean they are.
And why are KC registered Staffordshire Terriers the ONLY breed that the KC recommend with children?
You need to realise that the 'bad' dogs are not proper staffs, they are something else, breed differently and brought up differently.
The nicest dogs I have ever come across are KC registered staffs! They would literally lick you all day long - worst guard dogs you could ever get because they are so friendly.
The worst dogs I have come across round here are border collies and that chocolate lab! Nasty things they are! (of course I am _just_ on about the ones here - I'm sure well bred and well brought up ones would be entirely different).
What we need is to stop breeding, esp BYBs! If people don't show their dogs, have wins behind them, they shouldn't be breeding imo.
smudgley
06-03-2008, 02:06 PM
Erin, I'm afraid that I don't know that there are responsible staffy owners on here, that own friendly staffies. People on here are after all 'cyber' people, they could tell us anything about themselves and who are we to argue as we don't know them?? I speak from 'real' experiences of the breed which in my case have not been good experiences and I'm sickend that day after day, children, other dogs and pets are being injured and attacked by not only staffies but certain other breeds too. Whilst I agree all breeds have the potential to injure, seemingly certain breeds do so a great deal more than others. How would you feel if it was your child injured by one of these dogs? I know how it feels as I know someone who's child has been attacked by one and I've witnessed an attack in our local park where two young boys playing footie were set upon by a staffie off it's lead. I'm aftraid that if petitions ever came into ban the breed I would sign them. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I appreciate that just as I am entitled to mine ;)
:shock: Can't believe you said that fran! :shock:
I too am shocked at that comment :(
After all the help and support you have recieved off us "cyber" people when you have needed it and thats the thanks we get,you have just gone way to far Fran!
I completely disagree with that statement, Fran - sorry.
I understand that people online are, to some extent, anonymous, however on Catsey there is a really strong family feel and a bond between many of the regular members.
I really feel quite insulted by that statement as it does, by implication, say that I am misleading people about who I am, what I do and what I believe. I would never do that in a place that I have spent 2 1/2 years in and with people I feel very comfortable with.
I am having a hard time believing what you have just posted PK, we have known each other for over 3 years okl, never met, but I would never ever think of you other than a responsible dog owner, and find it extremely hurtful you posting you do not know if I am a responsible staffie owner....I have owned the breed for over 20 years and feel I have real experience of the breed!!!!
I am stopping now before I say something I shouldn't...
dandysmom
06-03-2008, 05:13 PM
This has gotten completely out of hand, people! Lets stop, take a deep breath, agree to disagree and drop the subject ! Enough has been said and it is getting hurtful now !!!!!!!!
I Would like to add here that I have owned bull breed dogs all my life. Never once have I been bitten...even in rescue work.
I have stayed at Moli's house a few times and once with Ceilidh. Her Staffies were more in danger of drowning her with kisses than anything else. She was rolling about the floor with them, never having met them before and I will add they are not used to small children.
I have helped Tracy with Staffy rescue as well and not had any problems either.
There is always a "bad" dog of any breed but it's normally from a BYB or owned by a moron.
My Blue would welcome all and anything into the house. He was a BIG entire boxer. I had rescue dogs, tortoises, cats, snakes and hamsters. He never bothered his bum!!!
I don't agree with what you said either Fran. There are many people who have worked tirelessly to promote a positive image of SBT's and introduce the 'punish the deed not the breed' campaign. Many loving, friendly non-vicious SBT's have been taken from their owners, just for their breed, it is disgusting and heartbreaking. I have openly said it wouldn't be my choice of breed, simply becuse I am in love with sighthounds, but know many who love staffies and we just cannot tarnish them all with the same brush, So unfair!
Re the 'cyber' people comment. I have met a few people on here, including you Fran. Those of us who have been posting for some time I see as my 'friends' really and believe and trust all that they say. Yes, we have our disagreements, I know I am strong-minded over a couple of issues particularly, but I am who I am, I have never made anything up about myself or my life. I like to think that is the same for us all.
Erin, I'm afraid that I don't know that there are responsible staffy owners on here, that own friendly staffies. People on here are after all 'cyber' people, they could tell us anything about themselves and who are we to argue as we don't know them?? I speak from 'real' experiences of the breed which in my case have not been good experiences and I'm sickend that day after day, children, other dogs and pets are being injured and attacked by not only staffies but certain other breeds too. Whilst I agree all breeds have the potential to injure, seemingly certain breeds do so a great deal more than others. How would you feel if it was your child injured by one of these dogs? I know how it feels as I know someone who's child has been attacked by one and I've witnessed an attack in our local park where two young boys playing footie were set upon by a staffie off it's lead. I'm aftraid that if petitions ever came into ban the breed I would sign them. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I appreciate that just as I am entitled to mine ;)
Fran I have stayed out of this thread apart from saying at the start its not dogs its the owners, I have bitten my tongue and although I did compose a "reply/post I did not post it without thought.
But I have to say I have met you and Tom and spent a good few hours with you and your OH a few years ago and I am not sure really how to respond to this.
For the last 3-4 years we have chatted on here and I have never spoken an untruth and if you are now saying I am irresponsible then please reconsider because I myself take that as an insult. I pray you did not mean it that way....but given the fact you stated it in your first paragraph then you obvously do.
Yes I am a cyber person but one who has gone out her way in the past to support you, I cannot believe you feel I have lied or spoken untruths as that is not the case.
Irresponsible breeding is the cause of lots of problems people who breed for money ratehr than the care of animals no one will stop that. Its is as rife in my breed as it is in your own.
So this is one STAFORD OWNER of many years drawing a line in the sand and saying how dare you say I have been lying on here.....
And there are certain people who are not fit to own my breed, as in many cases they are to dense to own any dog let alone as lovely a breed as the Stafford.
Karen
I'm sorry but I may have met some of you but I have never met your dogs, I have very bad experiences with staffies, do not like them, will never like them I'm afraid and yes Az one of the worst I have met is KC registered, it's owned by my Mother in law :? and she has been up in court because of it's aggresive behaviour, lucky she still has it and imo shouldn't still have it! This is cyber space and like I say anybody can say anything about themselves and their pets. I'm afraid this is my opinion, you are of course entitled to yours but I stand by what I said earlier and I would sign petitions to ban the breed. I have to add here that it is not the only breed that I would like to see banned.
Fran are you calling me an irresponsible owner?
Fran are you calling me an irresponsible owner?
I never called you an irresponsible owner Kazz, neither have I said you are lying which you have accused me of in an earlier post :? I'm merely pointing out that this is cyber space and whilst yes, I have met you briefly, I have never met your dogs Kazz
So, obviously when we say our dogs are sociable and well mannered, not at all aggressive, you do not believe us PK??
Regarding your MIL dog, its aggressive , why is it aggressive, it was not born like that....has it been socialised with other dogs, has it been trained, taught some manners, sounds to me like it has not....No dog is born aggressive PK...
....No dog is born aggressive PK...
No but aggresion traits are bred into certain breeds Moli ;)
Fran did you not read that report that Elaine posted? have you not ready anything that the likes of Az,BD,Luke and others have replied with? ;)
Fran did you not read that report that Elaine posted? have you not ready anything that the likes of Az,BD,Luke and others have replied with? ;)
Erin, no matter how many reports I could read would change my opinion of this. I have several, not just one but several bad experiences and not one good one. That for me says more than any 'report' that I can read :?
I just hope that the next 'victim' of one of these attacks is not one of your loved ones :(
Fran you said I'm afraid that I don't know that there are responsible staffy owners on here, that own friendly staffies. You did not say there are responsible owners on here who could may own friendy Staffies!
People on here are after all 'cyber' people, they could tell us anything about themselves and who are we to argue as we don't know them?? You are quite right there we are all cyber people how do we know people are telling us the truth.
I myself have noticed there are people on here who pop on talking about breeding numerous litters in one year ..again how do we know why they breed so many litters? do their animals contibute anything to the gene pool to improve the breed?
We will never know.
We believe it because in essence we trust them, if you do not like Staffie fine I will loose no sleep over that but I object to being slated on a public forum. You have never raised the point previously.
If your MIL is not capable of owning a dog and making sure it is well behaved and looked after that is the HUMANS fault not the dogs.
However how do we know their is such a person as your MIL this is Cyber space and as you say people can say anything.
See what I mean you have to trust in some part what people say.If you approach every post and poster thinking you are lying to me....then what is the point of talking to them at all let alone for over 3 years?
Elaine
06-03-2008, 09:39 PM
This thread has turned into a soap box for some one who hates a particular breed, despite the fact that you have posted on threads about staffies on this forum, saying "what a pretty face" etc. Smacks of a little hypocracy;)
alexgirl73
06-03-2008, 09:40 PM
http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1925754.mostviewed.dog_attacked_jo gger_court_hears.php
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=65161
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/5288388.stm
http://www.chako.org/dogblog/forums/534/ShowPost.aspx
Edited to point out that these are all LABRADOR attacks on people!
I'm sorry Kazz but you are a cyber person, I haven't met your dogs, really I do not know you :? I haven't called you irresponsible nor a liar, just that i don't know your dogs and for that I'm not lying.
you are quite correct with what you are saying about my MIL that anybody could say anything on here including me - proves my point perfectly ;)
This thread has turned into a soap box for some one who hates a particular breed, despite the fact that you have posted on threads about staffies on this forum, saying "what a pretty face" etc. Smacks of a little hypocracy;)
yes long before I realised exactly what the breed was all about and had so many bad experiences. How looks can be deceiveing eh?? ;)
yes long before I realised exactly what the breed was all about and had so many bad experiences. How looks can be deceiveing eh?? ;)
http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?t=24427
not that long ago fran ;)
Elaine
06-03-2008, 09:46 PM
yes long before I realised exactly what the breed was all about and had so many bad experiences. How looks can be deceiveing eh?? ;)
Arent they just;)
[Edited because I cannot be polite.
http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?t=24427
not that long ago fran ;)
Yes well as some one put it so eloquently a while ago on here, it's such a fluffy pink forum everyone says such nice things about each other and their pets. The minute someone stands up for what they believe in, they are outcasted. Strange that isn't it Erin ;)
Strange also how people who nothing of the breed at all feel it neccesary to post in support of something they know nothing about ;)
[Edited because I cannot be polite.
Edited ....me too!
Yes well as some one put it so eloquently a while ago on here, it's such a fluffy pink forum everyone says such nice things about each other and their pets. The minute someone stands up for what they believe in, they are outcasted. Strange that isn't it Erin ;)
Strange also how people who nothing of the breed at all feel it neccesary to post in support of something they know nothing about ;)
I assume that im one of the peole who no nothing of the breed? and yes i dont know alot about the breed but obviously im a little more open minded than yourself and i know that there "good" and "bad" dogs in EVERY breed!!
I assume that im one of the peole who no nothing of the breed? and yes i dont know alot about the breed but obviously im a little more open minded than yourself and i know that there "good" and "bad" dogs in EVERY breed!!
I never mentioned anyone by name did I erin? yes good and bad in every breed more bad in some breeds than others though ;)
Elaine
06-03-2008, 09:56 PM
Just because people have not posted their own experiences with staffies dos not necessarily mean they know nothing at all about the breed;)
Just because people have not posted their own experiences with staffies dos not necessarily mean they know nothing at all about the breed;)
Well certain people on here would support anything if one of the others in their 'clique' said it was right :roll: Just posting links is easy isn't it? ;)
This thread is going nowhere. You will never change my opinion of this breed, I hope nothing happens to change your opinion of the breed for the worse but I know which of those options is more likely to happen :(
Originally Posted by Fran http://www.catsey.com/images/catseybuttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?p=464329#post464329)
Yes well as some one put it so eloquently a while ago on here, it's such a fluffy pink forum everyone says such nice things about each other and their pets. The minute someone stands up for what they believe in, they are outcasted. Strange that isn't it Erin :wink:
Strange also how people who nothing of the breed at all feel it neccesary to post in support of something they know nothing about :wink:
So Fran you can say what you like when you like and no one else is entitled to an opinion about a breed they do not own other than yourself. Interesting thought process there.
You are right this is a fluffy pink forum which has on occasion come to your defence and given you support obviously we did not realise as we are just cyber people we had a Cuckoo in the nest. Who could in fact have been telling us complete stories, and we were guilible enough to fall for it.
However if you do not like being a member of a fluffy pink forum where people are nice to each other then the choice is obvious.But how do you know we are all fluffy pink and not sharp Purple we are Cyber people.
I can honestly say, nothing will ever change my opinion of the breed, had them 20 years, and if anything like them more and more ...
EmmaG
06-03-2008, 10:05 PM
Christ guys you all really need to calm down and step back from this thread. Doesn't seem like this is getting anybody anywhere?
(http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?p=464329#post464329)
So Fran you can say what you like when you like and no one else is entitled to an opinion about a breed they do not own other than yourself. Interesting thought process there.
If you read back through this thread Kazz, you will see that on more than one occasion I have stated that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Perhaps you ought to pay attention more Kazz and keep up with the thread and not just pick the bits out you want to have an over the top go at :roll:
I assume that im one of the peole who no nothing of the breed? and yes i dont know alot about the breed but obviously im a little more open minded than yourself and i know that there "good" and "bad" dogs in EVERY breed!!
Well certain people on here would support anything if one of the others in their 'clique' said it was right :roll: Just posting links is easy isn't it? ;)
This thread is going nowhere. You will never change my opinion of this breed, I hope nothing happens to change your opinion of the breed for the worse but I know which of those options is more likely to happen :(
You are quite right there Fran (if indeed your name is Fran ;)) how do I know your experiences (good or bad) of Staffies is genuine? we are Cyber people, given to saying just anything I know this because one of the Cyber people said so earlier......therefore it must be true what they say. ;)
Well certain people on here would support anything if one of the others in their 'clique' said it was right :roll: Just posting links is easy isn't it? ;)
This thread is going nowhere. You will never change my opinion of this breed, I hope nothing happens to change your opinion of the breed for the worse but I know which of those options is more likely to happen :(
cheap shot Fran :roll:
cheap shot Fran :roll:
Sorry but it's true noted by quite a few members on here ;)
alexgirl73
06-03-2008, 10:08 PM
http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1925754.mostviewed.dog_attacked_jo gger_court_hears.php
http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=65161
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/5288388.stm
http://www.chako.org/dogblog/forums/534/ShowPost.aspx
Edited to point out that these are all LABRADOR attacks on people!
Those were labrador attacks
This is a german shepherd
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6361067.stm?ls
This is a poodle
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?sf=29&click_id=29&art_id=qw979049221939B241&set_id=1
Not just staffies is it?
Those were labrador attacks
This is a german shepherd
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6361067.stm?ls
This is a poodle
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?sf=29&click_id=29&art_id=qw979049221939B241&set_id=1
Not just staffies is it?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
alexgirl73
06-03-2008, 10:10 PM
what Fran, no comment on the labrador attacks?
what Fran, no comment on the labrador attacks?
No comment to you Alex I'm afraid!! nothing to do with the links i have no problem with them
alexgirl73
06-03-2008, 10:12 PM
Whatever Fran! Your true colours are showing aren't they!
No comment to you Alex I'm afraid nothing to do with the links i have no problem with them
That is totally uncalled for Fran,do you realise how childish you are sounding? :roll:
Whatever Fran! Your true colours are showing aren't they!
they certainly are Alex
That is totally uncalled for Fran,do you realise how childish you are sounding? :roll:
Look at the kettle calling the pot black :shock:
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