Kitten Food for kidney patients

[AnnShoebridge]

Hi,

I'm brand new to the forum and apologise if there is already an answer to my question. If there is then I don't know where to find it :roll:

Our 11 year old cat is suffering from renal insufficiency. As a consequence he's on Fortekor. However, he has recently gone off almost every single type of cat food we try to give him. He even refuses fresh chicken, which previously he absolutely loved. I'm thinking of giving him kitten food since a friend told me that it's good for cats suffering with kidney problems.

Has anyone ever heard of this before? If so, is it a good thing to offer him?

I'm desperate to give my cat something he will eat :cat26

[babycakes]

Welcome to Catsey X Sorry I don't have any experience of this but I am sure other members will have some good advice for you

[Fran]

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Warm welcome! I'm sorry to hear about your cat's kidney problems. I am not experienced in this area although there a couple of members here who are and who hopefully will be along soon to help you. My gut instinct is that kitten food which contains higher protein than adult food may not necessarily be the best idea here but as I say I am no expert.

Hope you'll stick around and tell us a little bit more about your kitty.

[yola]

Welcome - sorry your join us at such a worrying time. I don't have experience of renal issues but several key members have had cats with kidney insufficiencies and have researched the illness at length. I'm sure they'll be along with advice.

[dandysmom]

Hi and welcome! I also am not familiar with this but several of our members here are very knowledgable and will be able to help you........

[dinahsmum]

Hello Ann - welcome to Catsey

Elaine is our kidney supremo. Here is an article/post she did a while back, in memory of her lovely Winston, who lived to 21.
http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?t=16080&highlight=kidney

I had a Siamese girl who was on Fortekor for the last year and a bit of her life. It kept her kidney issues completely under control and I lost her to an unrelated disease at 17+.
I was lucky that she enjoyed the prescription food, both wet and dry. As treats my vet suggested things like chicken and fish skin and fatty meat - basically not prime protein.
Personally i don't think kitten food is a good idea. That is high protein to support kitten growth.
Sometimes kidney patients suffer from indigestion (not sure if it's the disease or the medication). It's not nice having an acid stomach and this puts them off their food. Slippery Elm is a simple and harmless food supplement to coat the stomach and make them feel better.

Hope Elaine (or Kazz, who had Oscar and coped with his crf for years, without medication) will be here with more advice soon.

[Elaine]

Welcome to Catsey and i am so sorry to hear about your cat having CRF.
First things first though, kitten food is a big NO NO as it contains a high content of protein and phosphorus which may put more strain on the already damaged kidneys. That said, it is important to get your cat eating again and the sooner the better.
Excess tummy acid is a big problem for CRF cats and is the main one to cause inapetance. there are several things that can help with this.
Raising food bowls so the cat doesnt have to lower its head too much.
Slippery Elma bark is an excellent all rounder, it helps with excess tummy acid, ulcers or painful mouth, constipation and diahorrea. You can buy it in any health food shop, sprinkle it on the food or make a syrup which makes it easier to syringe into the mouth.
There is loads of info I can help you with if you wish.
But lets get this cat eating again, have you tried warming up the food a little? I used to get Winston eating again by giving him some smelly fish such as sardines, not good as a replacement food for CRF cats but if it gets them eating then on occasion its worth it. I used to heat the food by adding a little boiled water to it thus also giving him a little extra fluids.
Sometimes it helped if I sat with him and encouraged him to eat, talking to him and stroking him.
CRF is an emotional roller coaster the trick is to learn as much as you can and fast but there is alot of support out there to help you through it.
Do you have a copy of his last blood results?
http://www.felinecrf.org/
This is a bible to many owners of CRF cats and helped me enormously. There is alot to take in so if you need any help at all please dont be afraid to ask.
http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm
Hope some of this helps and I wish you both lots of love and best wishes.

[Kazz]

Hello

First step is to say Hello. Whats you cats name? he sounds lovely.
I agree totaly with Elaine - I'd be silly not to, warming the food a little, stimulates the taste buds it works - if you look at bread - it looks okay but you can walk away; look at just out of the oven warm bread you have to have a piece - why because your senses "smell" work in conjuncition with your others and tell your you are hungry.:)
Works for cats too. :) Slightly warmed is great.
He needs to eat though, because as you know his body cannot tolerate periods of not eating as well as it could.
Sardines warmed smell nice, gets them eating again as does I have found lamb - grilled/roasted whatever smells. Do you feed his chicken still warm?

Also I always added a little extra water to all food to keep fluid levels up and would recomend this to everyone even kittens as I think it would help prevent the onset of kidney disease. But I have no proof justa gut feeling.

Raising the food bowl also helps more than you first think.

But even though the kitten food should be a NO NO I have always been an advocate of the idea eating something is better than eating nothing as you know - eating is the key.None eating in my opinion is worse than eating the "wrong" things. So if he wil eat kitten food try that.

He is your cat and Elaine has said learn what you can but most of all REMEMBER no one knows his as well as you do and use your common sense. to his best interest.
Try some packet foods with gravy - my old lady Cleo was 24 when she was PTS from old age but she had CRF too and adored Whiskas Oh So Fishy/Meaty worked for us just added warm water to stimulate her taste buds.

The key is learn what you can but take what you consider to be best - lots of vets recommend the special food and it works for lots of cats, but I have always been onf the belief every cat is different so sometimes you have to think outside the box, and step outside it.

Keys.
Raise food slightly. I food an argos catalogue x 2 under the dish the right height :)
Warm food slighly. Adding much needed fluid to it about a tablespoon or two see what you think?
Any food eaten in my opnion is good food.
Time, I also found sitting with Oz in particular helped him eat. He may have ignored what was on his dish but always wanted what I was eating ;)
The slippery Elm Bark - worked for many people incliuding Elaine and can't hurt.

I wish you all the best and sitting here reminds me of the constant worry and tummy churning concern that is iving with a cat with Renal problems. I do hope he is eating by the time you read this. Take care and we do need t know his name.

Karen

[AnnShoebridge]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I will most definitely NOT be buying kitten food for Tigs (there you are Karen :) ).

I am, however, a little confused. Some of you mention CRF. I've been told that Tigs has 'slight' renal insufficiency. Is this just the early stages of CRF? Or is all renal insufficiency CRF?

Tigs is our fourth cat, although the other three have, over the years, passed away. He's very much the love of my life.

I will try some of the suggestions and let you know how we get on. He did eat some of his meat this morning.

Ann

[Elaine]

Excellent post Karen, thankyou. xxx

If you have been told Tigs has slight renal insufinciency, that would indicate to me that his kidney values are slightly elevated. CRF (chronic renal failure) and renal insuficiency are all in all the same thing.
What this means is that there is ongoing damage and eventual loss of sufficient nefrons(Definition: small tube in kidney: a fine tubule in the kidneys of vertebrates that filters and excretes waste materials from the blood and produces urine)
for the developement of CRF. Clinical signs of CRF are not usually apparent until three quarters of the total number of nefrons have been destroyed, so the process may continue over many months or years, by the time signs do apear, the condition is well advanced.
Can I ask when Tigs was blood tested? Was it a routine blood test given his age or did you feel that all was not well with Tigs?

[dinahsmum]

I agree with Elaine and Kazz that eating something is much more important than eating exactly the right thing or not eating the 'wrong' thing. There were times when Mini was miserable that she ate the strangest things, after turning her nose up at prescription food, ordinary cat food, chicken, fish etc. Just pressing the trigger and getting the system going again seemed to stimulate the ordinary appetite. Ham is good and smelly and often acceptable when other things aren't.
I found a 'cat drinking fountain' was good at encouraging her to drink too - that's important.
I'm sure you'll get more confidence in her health and your ability to cope with it very shortly. It's all a horrible shock at the beginning.
Hope Tigs is a good boy at taking his pill. Is it just one a day?
Stay with us, you'll get lots of support and advice here - we're all in it with you.

[AnnShoebridge]

Hi Elaine

Tigs' blood was tested just a few weeks ago. It wasn't routine. We already knew that he had renal insufficiency from a previous blood test. However, just a few weeks ago he went off his food, his tummy became very distended and his 'meow' was a very weak attempt at a proper meow whereas he's normally extremely vocal.

Hope this helps you.

Ann

[Elaine]

Do you have a copy of his blood test at all?
I used to find it very helpful to keep a copy or a record of the blood results, that way you can keep an eye on how fast/slow the condition progressing.
As Hilary said drinking and fluid intake is as important as eating with renal issues such as CRF. Cats do not instinctively go to water when they are thirsty, due to their history in the wild as hunters they would have gotten all the fluids they needed from their pray. Ofcourse this is no longer the case with many cats since domestication.
I think I am right in saying that myself, Karen, Hilary and Charlie all gave our cats some extra fluids in their food.
CRF cats are prone to dehydration due to increased urination and are at time unable to replace the amount of fluids lost through urination by drinking alone.
Did your vet say what was causing the tummy to distend?
Sorry for the long winded posts, I tend to get a little carried away when it comes to CRF. Just tell me to shut up when you think I am rambling;) :lol:

[charliebubs]

You're not rambling, Elaine!!

Hi Ann and welcome to Catsey. I sadly lost Midas to CRF last year and he was only about 7/8 years old :( Elaine has given some wonderful advice already and was my oracle when Midas was poorly.

I had problems with Midas wanting to eat towards the end of his life and it was caused by him having such high stomach acid and he was bringing up a lot of bile. He was prescribed antacid tablets by the vet (as well as Fortekor and the renal diet) and I raised his food bowls and added warm water to the food to try and entice him.

Although kitten food is a no, no........towards the end I was feeding Midas whatever he wanted to eat, as I thought that was better than nothing.

As Elaine has said, I was also adding water to his food to try and make sure that he was drinking enough. I also bought a water fountain to try and encourage him to drink more and that seemed to help. I was quite lucky (if that's possible) that Midas did want to drink a lot, I think because of his stomach acid and bile he was always drinking - probably to get rid of the taste. :(

You are fortunate that Tigs has been diagnosed in the early stages. Unfortunately Midas was diagnosed too late and there was really nothing to prevent to onset of the problem. I did have his bloods tested fairly regularly and kept the results so that I could personally monitor how he was doing - as well as the vets monitoring. It helped me - probably psychologically :)

I hope some of that helps.

Charlie
x

[Elaine]

http://www.catsey.com/showthread.php?t=19732

The above link might help you to get some photos of your dear kitty onto Catsey.;)
I would love to see him xxx

[AnnShoebridge]

For those of you who want to know what Tigs looks like...here he is.

Ann :-P http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff214/Shoeysmum/May2004.jpg

[Elaine]

Aww thankyou Ann, Tigs is gorgous xxx

[Fran]

What a handsome cat!!!

[Elaine]

How is Tigs' appetite? Is he eating any better now?

[AnnShoebridge]

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff214/Shoeysmum/May2004.jpg

Hi Elaine

No, I'm afraid he isn't. We're averaging 1 sachet per day whereas, as you know, cats usually have 1 sachet per meal time. Whatsmore, most of this is being thrown away. We have an appointment at the vets on Tuesday so I'll let you know how we get on :(

Thanks for your concern and interest.

Ann

[Elaine]

Is he vomiting at all or drooling excessively?
Anything else out of the ordinary that may seem small and insignificant can sometimes be very relevant indeed.
I do hope he feels better very very soon and starts to eat again. xxx

[AnnShoebridge]

Hi Elaine

No he's neither vomiting nor drooling. Apart from the lack of appetite everything else appears to be normal.

Ann

[Elaine]

Maybe he just needs a little steroid or food stimulant to pick him up again.
I have everything crossed for his vet appointment on Tuesday xxx Please let us know what the vet says and how Tigs gets on. In the mean time please give him a big snuggly cuddle from me xxx

[Kazz]

He is stunning, a lovely lad, you know I had a feeling he was a ginger Tom. :) spooky. And he's got a baggy belly too :)

I was wondering how you were getting on and Elaine beat me to it. I wonder if he just ain't to hungry - if your weather is as bad a ours maybe he just is not hungry - but I remember Cleo went off her food and it was in fact tooth trouble. May be worth checking out, let us know. Karen

[mable1718]

hi and a warm welcome to catsey i really cant help out there so i do hope everyones advice has helped you

[charliebubs]

He's scrummy Ann!!!!! :smt007

I hope all goes well at the vets tomorrow. Keep us posted.

[Elaine]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/ElainePirie/Catsey%20cats/adorabletigs.jpg
Hope all goes well tomorrow xxx

[charliebubs]

Awww - Elaine - that's lovely :)

[AnnShoebridge]

Hi All

Firstly, thank you so much Elaine for that lovely picture of Tigs.

We've just got back from the vets. I was shocked to learn that Tigs has lost .7 kg in a month. The vet thinks that Tigs' kidneys are inflamed but he's given him an appetite stimulant (steroid) as well as another injection to try to reduce the inflammation and we have to go back on Thursday.

I told my vet about the wonderful advice you've all given me on this website and that I appreciate that Tigs' condition can't be cured. However, the vet told me, without me asking, that he doesn't think now is the time to let Tigs go. We also talked about diet and he told me how bland the senior cat meat is for cats.

As soon as we got back home Tigs went straight for his food bowl and had some more of the fish and rice I'm now giving him. I don't think for one moment that the steroids work that quickly...:lol:

I'll let you all know what happens Thursday.

Ann ;)

[Elaine]

Aww bless Tigs xxx
Sounds like you have a nice vet and one that you can talk things over with which is excellent.
I have been talking with another woman for most of this afternoon who's cat has been diagnosed with CRF, long and very complicated one but any way, I was talking with her about trying to encourage her cat to start eating again, so here are another few tips just in case you may need them.
Catnip, sprinkled ontop of some food may also help as an apetite stimulant, provided you have a cat that loves catnip that is.
Egg whites are full of vitamin B and can be mixed with a little of what ever food you are feeding. Make sure the egg white is cooked as uncooked it contains avin which in the eggs raw state doesnt allow the cat to absorb the B vits but when cooked the avin is destroyed.
Hills a/d, prescription food for convalessing cats and very rich in liver. Not good for a CRF cat to be fed this often but may well help the cat get its apetite back. It is of a squishy consistancy and so can be watered down with a little boiled water easily and placed into a syringe in order to help assist feed if necessary.
Just thought I'd mention these now incase I forget about them again.
As always I wish you both all the very best. Stick around Ann and keep us informed as to how you and Tigs get on.
Elaine xxx

[Kazz]

Pleased the visit went well its lovely isn't it when you have a good vet. Good on Tigs, power to your appetite.

[charliebubs]

I'm glad Tigs has eaten, but a shame that he has lost that bit of weight.

I hope all goes well at the vets again tomorrow. :)

[AnnShoebridge]

Good news!:lol: The vet was very pleased with Tigs today. His appetite has greatly improved and he's gained .05 kg. He'll be seeing the vet again in 2 weeks and will have another injection. :) ;)

Ann

[dinahsmum]

Fab!
My Mini did really well on the Fortekor; let's hope Tigs reacts in the same way.

[charliebubs]

Oh great news Anne!! :):)

Please pop back again in 2 weeks and let us know how Tigs got on................or just stick around and keep us posted. More pics of the handsome man would be good too ;)

[babycakes]

That's good news you must be relieved

[Mags]

Excellent news!....

[Elaine]

Very pleased to read the good news, long may it continue xxx