Chloe has forgotten the litter tray exists..

[Donna]

How can I stop Chloe weeing on my carpet? And how can I stop her pooping on my lawn?

She used to use the litter tray, but now would rather go anywhere other than the appropriate place!!

I have tried the stuff you put on the lawn to stop her pooping but that doesnt deter her. And my dining room carpet has just about taken as much of her weeing as it can stand. My house must stink, but I must be used to the smell :roll:

I am gonna have to pull up the carpet, but cant afford to replace it with anything so will have to have rough floors. Will the wee smell have gone through carpet, underlay to scent the floorboards?

I have tried two litter trays but that is no good as Misty will just use two, so then Chloe still has no where to go?

How can I get round this problem, as it is driving me nuts constantly finding wet patches on my carpets. :evil:

[dinahsmum]

Oh Donna - this is awful for you :(
here's Moli's recipe for removing pee smell
Mix 1 part water to 3 parts vinegar. Then dampen the area that was urinated on, with the vinegar-water solution. DON'T BLOT. Here is where most people go wrong. Place something semi-heavy that won't absorb the solution, like a large laminated book, on top of the area you are treating. Let the spot dry. Most people don't put anything over it and then the vinegar just evaporates without taking away the urine smell. But if you do place something on top of it the vinegar will have time to neutralize and evaporate the urine. It will take some time for it to dry, several hours. When it is all dry treat the area again, but with 3 parts water and 1 part vinegar. Don't forget to put something over it. After it has dried for the second time, the urine smell should be gone. It may take a couple of days for the vinegar smell to go away. This really does work though

I would think there's a good chance that there is some in the floorboards, so it would be a good idea to treat them.

But what to do with Chloe? Well, if it was me, I would put her, her bed and a hooded litter tray in a crate, whenever i couldn't watch her. Sort of total retraining. The hooded tray would be hers, and she would learn again that she must use it each time. If she doesn't, she will wet/soil her bed. It sounds a bit unkind but I think Chloe has a dangerous future if she doesn't come round.

Have you tried different types of litter by the way? Maybe a change would appeal to her more. But (in my amateur way) I think her issues are territorial and to do with Misty. When she is 'released' you must make sure she has her litter tray in a private space and that Misty doesn't use it .... water pistol patrol or something, to keep her out.

Hope somebody else has better ideas for you. take care x

[charliebubs]

Oh dear Donna :( Poor you and poor Chloe :(

I would agree with DM that it sounds like a terratorial issue with Misty.

If it were me I would:
1. Shut her out of the dining room. She will be able to smell her pee in there (no matter how well you have cleaned, I would imagine that it has gone through the carpet) and so she will be thinking that the dining room is her toilet, as it smells like it.
2. Get more litter trays - maybe 3 or 4 - just in the short term, until she is re-trained. Perhaps have a couple that are open and a couple that have covers - in case there is one type that she doesn't like :roll:
3. Try different litter - maybe she has gone off the type of litter you use :? Perhaps have one tray with one kind in and another tray with another kind in.
4. Take her to the vets for a check up to make sure that she doesn't have any urine infection that is causing her to want to pee on something soft - rather than the litter.

How old is she? How long has this been going on?

I hope that you can resolve it soon.
Hugs
x

[Donna]

She is 3 in September, and this has been going on, on and off for three years... but it is getting worse and worse.

The 24/7 access to outside seems to help as she is happy to pee and poop outside, BUT only if it isnt raining and only if there are no other cats outside that she doesnt like.

I know deep down the issue is Misty. She doesnt like her and never has. I always expected them as kittens to get along and to love each other and hoped each day it would happen, but each day the divide is greater.

Misty is a huge strong cat and as such does huge strong pees that Chloe turns her nose up at, having to go in the tray. But how to stop Misty using another tray if I put that down for Chloe??? Impossible!!

I can try shutting Chloe in the kitchen/lobby/bathroom area of a night with her bed and a litter tray just for her, and also the cat flap but is this not cruel? What about day time when I am at work? Should I restrict Chloe to that area again?

I am at a loss as what to do. I wonder if I should lock the flap at night in case a cat wanders in, as she would be terrified if a cat came in and she was in the restricted area and could not get away from the cat.

Thanks DM for the cleaning tips. I might try that before ripping the carpet up as I will have no money to replace the carpet if I get rid (not that it is a nice carpet as Chloe has also shredded it with her claws). Would love wood flooring downstairs eventually....

[Jac]

Sorry nothing to add to the above advice, sounds good to me.

[Donna]

Just to add, I have tried every litter that exists.... her favourites are Catsan varieties as they seem to stop the urine smell the best.

Also she was at the vets recently for check up etc and the vet said she was in good health. She looks really thin, but the vet said her weight was ok. I assume I think she is thin as I compare her to Misty who is huge. I may weigh them both later to see the difference in size.

[dinahsmum]

Donna - have you read Cat Confidential? I'm sure she covers situations such as this (though I don't remember an instant answer. I know there is number of cats plus 1 for the number of litter trays needed and try to give your cat a bit of privacy) and she does give a good insight into cat-think.
If you haven't got it PM me your address and I'll send you my copy. It might help - it's a good read ayway.

[Donna]

Yes I have read it. And I know I need more than one litter tray for two cats.

But I just cant work out how I can stop Misty using the tray that Chloe would want to use!!! Or am I being really thick here???

I will put another tray down today, but know Misty will jump in it, as well as her one then I will have two trays down that Chloe wont use!!!

Thanks for the kind offer DM...

[dinahsmum]

The only thing I can think is to get a hooded tray for Chloe and prevent Misty using it - avarsion therapy with a (gentle) water pistol. Yes, leave Chloe in the kitchen (easily cleaned deodorised) with her tray when you can't supervise.
But this might not work with your house layout etc.
Sorry I can't help more :?

[Donna]

Thanks DM you are being helpful!!

I have one hooded tray already that Misty HAS to use as she doesnt squat when peeing!!! If she has a normal tray it goes all over the place so will keep the hooded one for Misty and will shut Misty in the house away from Chloe (in effect tonight Misty will have the run of my bedroom, emma's bedroom, hall/stairs, and dining room (front room door shut always). Chloe can then have the kitchen, lobby and bathroom and the garden if she chooses. I think I have another tray I can put down for her (normal one) to use in the kitchen.

How many days should I do this, to see if it is working? And should I keep them separate when I am at work? If they are separated for large amounts of time, will that make their relationship better or worse??

One other thought.... two girls that dont get on at all..... would a boy cat have been better??? Or what is the heirarchy of two girl cats?? Would another boy cat introduced settle the pecking order?? Or would that make things worse~?

Will try anything!!

[dinahsmum]

Eeek - lots of questions and I have so few answers - none in fact!
Try keeping them apart when you're not around for at least a week? maybe two? Their smells (normal not pee! :? ) will be all over the house anyway, so hopefully they won't forget each other.
What does everyone else think?
I'm not sure about the heirarchy and how it could have been better. Sounds like Chloe is a wimp and Misty is a bit of a bully ... their genders are probably immaterial. But remember animals aren't genetically programmed to be kind to each other and to look after the weaker members. Exactly the opposite - if they see off the weakling they get more food, better breeding partners, better living space etc.
A big soft boy as enforcer might work .... but if he didn't you'd have WW3 with 3 cats :?

More ideas people please!

[Donna]

But Chloe being the wimp doesnt fit; as she is the one always pouncing on Misty when she walks by. Chloe seems to be the one in charge, but has all these issues....

Its like she refuses to associate herself with the low life that she sees being Misty. Whether it be a room to share, or a food bowl or a litter tray. Chloe will just not lower herself to have anything to do with Misty and will swipe at her when she gets the chance (even though she is quarter of the size of Misty).

Misty is good natured and doesnt fight back hard, usually just a slap with her paw rather than claws showing so has handled the harrassment up to now. She is a bit dim so doesnt really know what is going on I think!

I just wanted a nice happy household, but after three years I have had enough...

Please anyone else have any suggestions???????????? BM has been great and thanks for that, but we have now both exhausted all thoughts!! We need more advice!!!

[Fran]

I think you have been given excellent advice already, I so empathise with you, it must be wearing you down, I know it would me :( I really don't know what else to advise. I'd certainly give the crate a go and try and re-train her. Other than that, perhaps consult an animal psychologist??

Good luck, I do hope you find an answer to your problems..

[Donna]

Thanks Fran, yes it does get me down a lot. I have now soaked my dining room carpet in vinegar solution and will shut Chloe in bathroom area tonight with a new litter tray just for her.

I cant afford an animal psychologist, so I will have to sort her out myself or put up with this forever more.

[Fran]

Donna, just a thought here and I know it's more common in male cats than female ones but have you have her checked for a urine infection? It's a big cause of inappropriate weeing??

[Donna]

Yes, she has had a clean bill of health from the vets Fran.

She did suffer from cystitus once, so know the symptoms of that to look out for, but it is not that...

This is definately a problem that is in her head and nothing else!

[Fran]

Have you tried any Feliway plug-ins Donna? Not an instant cure but can be very helpful with spraying/urinating problems and stress related problems too??

[Donna]

No I havent gone down that route just yet, know this has been mentioned to me on and off for a while with Chloe as this problem has reared up from time to time. It just seems so expensive and there is always something more important to buy - like food!!

I will shut her in with the litter tray tonight and see if she uses it.

One worry is that she will see that she is shut in, with Misty having the rest of the house to run around in - will she think she is being pushed out? Dont want her to feel any more stressed!!

[Fran]

The only other thing I can suggest Donna, is homeopathy. I have used homepathy with great success in the past...and it's not that expensive and the treatments can be tailor made to specific problems...

[Donna]

Thanks Fran, its not an easy one to sort out, of that I am aware - and at the same time I have to take Misty into consideration too.

[Donna]

http://www.expresschemist.co.uk/bach_rescue_remedy_range.html?gclid=CPzo5MaG840CFQ 0eEgoddkfJOw

This seems quite cheap - can it be used for cats too? Could i sprinkle some in the water bowl? Both cats would use it so wonder if it would do Misty any harm if she doesnt need it?

Think I need some too!! I am always stressed out and worry all the time - might get a bulk order.

I wont order until someone tells me its ok for pets too :)

[charliebubs]

Yes, it can Donna! I use Rescue Remedy in my cats water when they are stressed - it's good for you too!! :)

I think a Feliway is a good idea too - or maybe as a cheaper alternative some honeysuckle or valerian spray/drops. I have some valerian drops that I would be happy to post to you if you want? They are meant to calm and relax and I got them for Bernard, but he was past that stage by then and needed the cat shrink!! lol

Do you have them insured? My cat shrink was covered by the insurance.

Other than that (and my earlier advice) I'm not really sure what else to suggest. Sorry.

I think separating them tonight is a good idea. You never know, Chloe might be desperate for some time alone if she really doesn't like Misty. It might do her the world of good :)

Personally, I wouldn't think about getting another cat. I don't think that gender really has anything to do with it and I'm not sure that would make anything better :?

Have the two girls lived together from kittens - the whole three years??

[charliebubs]

Also, if you are willing to try anything and give homeopathic stuff a try....................I have been giving Arnica to my new boy, Red, as it's good for stress, agitation and fear. I'm not sure if that would be applicable to your girls, but it might help?! It's only about a fiver too, which isn't too bad.

http://secure.dorwest.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ARN15C

[Donna]

I got them both at six weeks old from different places. Chloe came from a very relaxed quiet home from quite a nice family. Whereas Misty came from a rough area where there were two female cats both had kittens at the same time and lots of rough kids swinging the kittens about. Completely different characters emerged!!!

There is about a six weeks between them in age, so Chloe was here first for about six weeks or so, then Misty came along.

I thought as they were so young they would just snuggle up together but it never happened... Chloe just attacked Misty from day one.

My cats are not insured... just have a credit card at the ready for my pets unfortunately.

As this Rescue Remedy can be used on cats I will definately get some. And I am probably a good candidate for testing it out too - can I buy it in the High Street or only online?

[Donna]

Also, if you are willing to try anything and give homeopathic stuff a try....................I have been giving Arnica to my new boy, Red, as it's good for stress, agitation and fear. I'm not sure if that would be applicable to your girls, but it might help?! It's only about a fiver too, which isn't too bad.

http://secure.dorwest.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ARN15C

Am happy to try herbal stuff. It seems a bit cheaper than the feliway stuff which makes it more affordable.

Have you noticed any difference in Red since you started using it?

[charliebubs]

Am happy to try herbal stuff. It seems a bit cheaper than the feliway stuff which makes it more affordable.

Have you noticed any difference in Red since you started using it?

Yes, I would say so. He's been here about 10 days now and it has been a slow process with him and the others, but yesterday and today he seems to have turned a corner :) I definitely think it's worth a try.

You can buy the Rescue Remedy in Boots.

Do you want me to send you the Valerian drops?? :)

[Donna]

Thanks for the offer Charlie. I would rather you keep them in case you need them and I will try the Rescue Remedy and separation/own litter tray first.

I dont want to put anyone to any trouble over this :-)

[charliebubs]

Thanks for the offer Charlie. I would rather you keep them in case you need them and I will try the Rescue Remedy and separation/own litter tray first.

I dont want to put anyone to any trouble over this :-)

Okay. Best of luck with the separation over the next few days.

Let me know if you change your mind about the drops, as they are just sat in my cupboard ;)

[Donna]

Thanks for all your suggestions girls, tis such an annoying problem, and sure there is an answer!!

If anyone else has further tips please post as I am sure this is going to be a long process - will update everyone in the morning on how the night goes...

[Donna]

I shut Chloe in the bathroom last night - she did not like that al all.... but she did use the litter tray for a wee. She had a fluffy rug, bed, food and water and tray in there. She did not eat any food at all which was her dinner :cry:

This morning I let her eat in there so Misty couldnt be in sight and she has eaten a small amount of wet food and a few kibbles. Its raining here today so she has not gone outside at all like she normally does in the morning.

She is skulking around the place now - think her night in solitary confinement has made her more on edge than before :(

I am on a mission to get her to put on a little weight as she is only 6lbs. But she doesnt seem to like ANY food.

[Fran]

Donna, have you tried Royal Canin's kibble for fussy eaters? My lot can't get enough of it and Meezers are notoriously fussy. If you haven't tried it, I'm off down the pet shop later, I'll see if I can get you a couple of sample packs to try her with???

[Donna]

I must admit, I have been feeding the cats the cheaper food - Misty gobbles up anything I buy... Chloe does like those small sheba tins, but I cant afford to be buying that all the time.

If the shop has some samples, that would be great Fran. And if you could let me know what sort of cost is involved with this food.

At the moment I am feeding my cats Tesco tinned cat food at 34p a tin which does one day for two cats plus a box of kibbles from Tesco that are around 89p that lasts a few weeks.

I know I might have to up the price of the cat food to get her to eat some more food and will have to adjust my budget accordingly!

[Fran]

I'll try and get you some samples today Donna. I buy big sacks of it but I'll find the current price of a 2kg bag when I go. It would last you a good while, particularly if you feed the girls seperately so only the fussy eater was having the food. If I get the samples I'll pm you for your address...

[Donna]

Thanks Fran, I think I will continue to feed separately whatever the outcome for the weeing problem..... she is very nervous when eating and always ready to run if she hears the slightest noise....

[Fran]

I've just had a look at the full RC range. The food I feed is for sensitive tums and fussy eaters. They also do one specifically aimed at fussy eaters. I'll see if I can get samples of both. If she hasn't got them today . I am sure she'll get some in for me ;)

[charliebubs]

Thanks Fran, I think I will continue to feed separately whatever the outcome for the weeing problem..... she is very nervous when eating and always ready to run if she hears the slightest noise....

It sounds like her anxiety is the root of all her problems, Donna. If you can get her to overcome that somehow then I'm sure she'll be a happier cat, stop peeing inappropriately and eat more and put on some weight.

Easier said than done though, I know. :(

[dinahsmum]

Donna - sorry to bombard you with even more suggestions but here's my latest 'brainwave'. :roll:
I think all we 'experts' :roll: are saying that Chloe is a scaredy cat and that is probably at the root of her problems. And she is in a vicious circle - stressed/anxious, pees inappropriately, stresses you (even if you try not to show it - cats are good at ready body language), stresses Chloe more etc etc. So try to break the circle. Pay attention to her at 'good/calm times. Speak to her, stroke her, play with her lots more than you do now. And include Misty as well.
Rescue Remedy sounds good - for all of you.
Once again - good luck

[Donna]

It sounds like her anxiety is the root of all her problems, Donna. If you can get her to overcome that somehow then I'm sure she'll be a happier cat, stop peeing inappropriately and eat more and put on some weight.

Easier said than done though, I know. :(

Hit the nail on the head Charlie methinks. ;)

[Donna]

Donna - sorry to bombard you with even more suggestions but here's my latest 'brainwave'. :roll:
I think all we 'experts' :roll: are saying that Chloe is a scaredy cat and that is probably at the root of her problems. And she is in a vicious circle - stressed/anxious, pees inappropriately, stresses you (even if you try not to show it - cats are good at ready body language), stresses Chloe more etc etc. So try to break the circle. Pay attention to her at 'good/calm times. Speak to her, stroke her, play with her lots more than you do now. And include Misty as well.
Rescue Remedy sounds good - for all of you.
Once again - good luck

Thanks for taking the time to try to help DM!

Yes she is a scaredy cat; not sure why, but dont think tht is necessarily needed to know. Perhaps she is just scared at EVERYTHING!

I have just got in, and she has pooped in her tray and eaten her food that was in the bathroom (new space). I offered some more when she was sitting on dining room chair (not usual place to eat) and she ate it with me sitting next to her. Seemed to be fairly relaxed but did keep an eye on her surroundings. Think little and often rather than just the two meals that Misty gets a day.

She is happy for snuggles on the sofa from time to time and I will encourage that more, and will try and get her to play more, but the usual scenario is:

Chloe playing nicely. Misty hears the fun and tries to join in. Chloe runs off.

Will get Rescue Remedy for me and the cats soon!

[Donna]

Well have now been to shops and placed a few drops of rescue remedy in the water bowls.... Chloe sniffed and turned away...

just have to wait and see if she drinks any.

[dinahsmum]

Well have now been to shops and placed a few drops of rescue remedy in the water bowls.... Chloe sniffed and turned away...

just have to wait and see if she drinks any.
I think you can rub a drop on the tips of their ears :shock:
Ask Elaine!

[Donna]

I think you can rub a drop on the tips of their ears :shock:
Ask Elaine!



Does that work???? :shock: :shock:

Elaine????

[Fran]

I've always put homeopathic remedies either in the drinking water or on mucous membranes i.e. nose or gums. Not sure about the tips of ears??

[Donna]

I've always put homeopathic remedies either in the drinking water or on mucous membranes i.e. nose or gums. Not sure about the tips of ears??

I could try getting some on her nose and she may lick it off??? This is gonna stress her out even more :shock:

I, on the other hand had a glass of water earlier with my four drops so will see if I am less stressed when she gets stressed :-D

[Fran]

I, on the other hand had a glass of water earlier with my four drops so will see if I am less stressed when she gets stressed :-D


:lol: @ Donna!! Well if Chloe doesn't drink the remedy at least you'll be chilled out about it :-D

[Donna]

Well I hope I am not boring you with this ongoing saga, but would appreciate any input as to what I am doing, as some of you know a lot more about cats than I do!!

Chloe has just eaten around 60g of Sheba chicken in Jelly (her fav) as I treated both cats to a tin today (wont be able to buy on a regular basis). On Chloe's dinner I put a few drops of Rescue Remedy so she must of taken in some of it.

Misty tried to jump in and finish Chloe's leftovers, but I shooed her away. Does it matter if Misty finishes Chloe's once she has walked away? Not worried about the RR in the food, more over what Chloe thinks.

[Fran]

I would say but this is only my personal feeling that it would be ok for Misty to eat Chloe's food but only after Misty has completely finished and has walked away from her food bowl...

[Donna]

Thanks Fran! Misty is a bigger cat so it makes sense she would want more than Chloe!!

In general today I would say more food has been eaten by Chloe, and I think separate feeding is definately helping. Also smaller, more frequent meals for Chloe as she obviously cannot eat a large amount in one go as she is tiny.

[charliebubs]

I would say that it's fine for Misty to finish her food, as long as she has finished first and walked away and not just been scared off :shock:

I hope the separate feeding and RR start to work wonders for you soon Donna. :)

[Donna]

Chloe has just finished off Misty's leftovers!!!! LOL!!!

[Elaine]

RR can be applied to the ears, I know of many people, including myself, who have used it in that way. One to two drops on the fingers and gently rubbed into the ear tips.
If the cat will allow, you can also give her a drop orally.
There is no harm in adding it to her food/water as well as on the ears.

[Donna]

No accidents overnight. Chloe's litter tray has been used and I think it is Chloe as Misty usually does tons!! Hard to tell though really.

Bought some Purina One kibbles yesterday too and those are going down very well - Chloe was eating them out of my hand last night very nicely. In all she had four small meals yesterday so am pleased as that is more than double what she has been eating.

This morning I have given them a small amount of Purina kibbles again, and off to work now with two full bowls of wet food for them to munch on.

I didnt lock the cats up last night as Chloe really was not happy about being stuck in the bathroom. I think she knows where her tray is now so is happier.

Think she will eat more if I buy the better food which I am going to have to do - the cats will eat better than the humans in this house!!

Not given her any RR today as off to work now. Back at 12 so will see how it goes.

How many drops a day can she have?

[dinahsmum]

Sounding hopeful! Keep it up
Don't know about the RR dosage - Elaine or Fran again!

[Fran]

I've never used RR. I know the homeopathic remedies I use, you can't overdose. I think it rather depends on the carrier solution, i.e. if it's alcohol based or not. Everything I use is water based. I think herbal remedies are alcohol based. Maybe Elaine would know?

[Elaine]

RR is completely harmless and cannot be overdosed on, how ever I would probably use one or two drops, two to three times a day.
http://www.wellbeings.com/html/bachflower-rescueremedy.html

[mable1718]

i hope you will sort it out soon and everyones advice has helped

[Donna]

Well would just like to thank Fran for the samples that arrived today and the lovely card x

It is so much appreciated as the postage alone has cost you a fair bit!!!

Once again, thank you all - whether it is advice, support or indeed taking the time to post some sample foods x

I will update you all on what Chloe thinks of the samples.

[charliebubs]

Awww - that's lovely of Fran.

I hope our advice helps Donna. :)

[Fran]

Donna, it really is no problem at all. I just hope she likes it ;)

[Donna]

Well one sachet of sample of food has been munched up pretty quickly.

Both Chloe and Misty have eaten the packet between them. I think Chloe just prefers better quality food so will obviously start buying better food.

She has had three small meals so far today and she will have one small meal before bedtime.

Misty on the other hand has probably had three large meals so will soon be posting about Misty being overweight rather than Chloe underweight!!!

Well I think the food problem has been solved just by feeding a different brand. She seems fairly relaxed today and I have not given her any RR as she runs away when I have the bottle in my hand!!! I will put a few drops on her last meal tonight.

I also have not found any further accidents, so will continue with the second litter tray and see how that goes.

Looking good!

[Fran]

Glad they liked the food Donna!

[charliebubs]

I'm so pleased it's going well Donna. Fingers crossed that this is the road to recovery for Chloe.......no more accidents and a happy, eating cat. ;)

[Donna]

I knew this would happen..... :(

Misty is now using Chloe's litter tray which means her pee is now going everywhere cos she doesnt squat low enough (which is why she has the hooded litter tray).

I am now clearing up Misty pee rather than Chloe pee :evil:

What to do now girls?

[dinahsmum]

Get a second hooded tray and throw out the non-lidded one.

[Elaine]

Dear god, what a time you are having with those two rascals.
I agree with Hilary but is it possible to also keep the un-hooded tray too?
http://wizz-catz.co.uk/soiling.html
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=1&cat=1310&articleid=158
Maybe these links can give a little extra help too. Wizz is a lovely woman and you can contact her via her website for some help too.