Smoking Ban [Archive]

Erin

01-08-2007, 04:42 PM

Just thought I would sart a new thread to see what people think about this?

Im a smoker (well a smoker trying to quit) and I totally 100 % agree with the ban in pubs/restraunts that serve food.

I do think that the traditinal pubs that dont serve food should have the right to choose for them selves OR it should go back to having well ventilated smoking rooms.

I dont know about any other smokers but since the ban has come in,if we have been out anywhere eating and Ive been out for a ciggy,some people look at me as though I have some sort of disease :roll:

what are you views?

Donna

01-08-2007, 05:12 PM

Hope I dont offend the smokers but I think it is brilliant there is a ban. Was so fed up of going out for the evening and come back smelling so bad it made me feel sick!

I am happy that I can go out and sit in a pub with friends and have a few drinks and not suffer ill health from all the smokers. I used to get blocked nose, watery eyes and felt really ill (and that wasnt the alcohol!)

I am sure the smokers will get used to having to go outside soon. Its only been a few weeks!

alexgirl73

01-08-2007, 05:43 PM

I'm over the moon that there is a ban (sorry to all smokers lol). I hated trying to eat food in a restaurant, and no matter how far away from the smoking area you were, there was always that lingering taste and smell as you ate. However, I do believe that some pubs should be able to choose ie working mens clubs etc and perhaps one or two in a town, therefore giving people a choice.

sammy

01-08-2007, 05:55 PM

I think choice is the key word here, as in, we no longer have any and neither do pub landlords. If a pub is purely a drinking pub, then it should have been up to the landlord to decide whether it is smoking or non-smoking. I know there is the argument about bar staff, but they would have a choice whether to work in a smoking pub or not.

Our local back street boozer which has never served food is now just an empty space with hordes of people drinking and smoking out back and front. Last Friday there were thirty people on the narrow pavement in front of the pub, and I cannot imagine how the local residents who live close by feel about it - it is a narrow road of terraced houses with this pub plonked in the middle.

I dread to think what will happen when winter comes and people don't want to sit outside and drink - I fear they will stay at home and the pub may go under. :(

Erin

01-08-2007, 06:13 PM

as I said in my first post I totally agree with the ban in places that serve food,but like sammy I think in bars that dont serve food the choice should be down to the owner.
My mom is doing ok at the moment (other than a few complaints from local residents because of noise now everyone is sitting outside)but come the winter she is really going to struggle.The winter months especially Jan after the christmas and new year celebrations are quiet She only hung on to the pub by the skin of her teeth last winter before the smoking came in so Im really hoping the ban doesnt make it worse for her this winter.

Its far to early to see if this ban will/has had any effect on businesses at the moment but we will see during the winter

Fran

01-08-2007, 06:27 PM

I agree with the ban where food is served but I don't agree it should be across the board in every establishment. I think a lot of pubs will suffer after a winter with the no smoking ban in place. I for one would rather stop at home than have to sit outside in the freezing cold to 'enjoy' a cigarette whilst I have a drink. I think the Government have taken people's basic right to choose whether they wish to smoke or not away. I think they are bang out of order here just like I think they were with the hunting ban. The hunting ban didn't work and I doubt the smoking one will either once 'ways around it' are sort ;) I'm just glad I'm older and prefer the comfort of my home anyhow. If I were younger and still enjoyed pubbing and clubbing, I'd be extremely miffed about it!

Emm

01-08-2007, 07:03 PM

I am totally FOR the ban.

Some people have mentioned the right to choose - unfortunately allowing people to smoke does infringe on those who choose not to smoke - and vice versa!

The smoking ban is still quite new to England we went through the same thing here as I'm sure Ireland did when they introduced it. It hasn't affected pubs - they are all still open and people still go drinking in the Winter time - the pubs are definately not empty at all.

The only problem is that walking past pubs and shops is really unpleasant because of all the smokers but I'm sure it won't be long before there is a ban to smoke on the street :lol:

Everybody hates change but to improve our quality of life we need to embrace new ways of doing things.

Fran

01-08-2007, 07:07 PM

Elaine

01-08-2007, 07:15 PM

I am a smoker and i do also agree with the ban, we have had the ban for over a year now and that doesnt bother me but now they are talking about banning you from smoking in the street or in your car, where is it going to stop?
I am much more offended by drunks and junkies in the street than smokers.
There is so much more polution from traffic than from smokers in the street.

Elaine

01-08-2007, 07:16 PM

Emm

01-08-2007, 07:17 PM

but non-smokers have been stuck at home!

now its there turn to go out LOL

I don't see the problem - we live in a time when cases of asthmas are on the increase - why should these people be made more ill by smokers?

smokers don't have to stick at home they can still go out - notice there are tables and patio heaters for smaokers outside now - did we non-smokers have any of that? - no - did any-one care? no!

Mags

01-08-2007, 07:22 PM

It would be interesting to know the smokers views on smoking being a health hazard....

I am not a smoker but I have to admit it is good to be able to go into a restaurant now and not have to inhale the smoke of others...

Donna

01-08-2007, 07:22 PM

I agree the smokers cannot say their choice has been taken. When did the non smokers ever have a choice????

Everyone knows what harm smoking causes to people. My mum and dad smoked for years until they both gave up around 12 years ago.... my dad's heart attack today is no doubt down to all the years he smoked.

Why should non smokers have to suffer the same effects when they chose to look after themselves and be as healthy as they can?

Fran

01-08-2007, 07:22 PM

I'm afraid this is one of those topics that you have to agree to disagree, there is never a right or wrong with these types of debates, we all have our own opinions.

Interesting...my hubby is an ex-smoker but even he thinks the Government has gone too far implementing the no smoking ban ;)

Mags

01-08-2007, 07:26 PM

Fran

01-08-2007, 07:30 PM

[/b]

He's trying to keep you sweet Fran! ;)

Not at all Mags, he'd love me to give up but we have had many serious conversations about the smoking ban and he really does think the Government has taken away a basic right of choice...

Emm

01-08-2007, 07:32 PM

Not at all Mags, he'd love me to give up but we have had many serious conversations about the smoking ban and he really does think the Government has taken away a basic right of choice...

but isn't that the difficult point here - with one hand they have taken away a basic right of choice....but with another they have given a basic right of choice.

Elaine

01-08-2007, 07:32 PM

I am not saying the smokers choice has been taken from them and as I have said I dont mind the ban in pubs and resteraunts but it becomes incredulous when people start talking about implementing a ban on the streets and in cars. What next? The nation is too fat so lets ban chocolate?
I agree this is not a debate to be won and each has their own opinion and my own personal opinion is that there are bigger things than smoking that need to be addressed by this government.

charliebubs

01-08-2007, 07:34 PM

I am a non-smoker and I agree with the ban totally in restaurants and other food-serving places. It's so nice to have a meal and go out and not come home stinking of smoke and wanting to wash my hair before going to bed!!! lol

When I lived in Australia they have a smoking ban on food serving places and it works really well over there.

I agree that people should have a choice though and I think it would be sensible to have some pubs that smokers can still go into and smoke, and others where non-smokers can go and be smoke free.

It is a tough one.

When I was growing up both my parents smoked really heavily at home and I think that has made me quite anti-smoking. Having said that, my mum still smokes (as do many of my friends) and it's just one of those things where we'll have to agree to disagree.

(Great topic Erin!! :))

Fran

01-08-2007, 07:41 PM

dandysmom

01-08-2007, 08:03 PM

I am n unabashed unashamed smoker, and I believe the government, both here and in the UK and Ireland have gone too far. I believe it should be up to the owner of the establishment to decide his policy. If a sign is outside saying this is a smoking establishment, then people who dislike/are allergic to smoke can decide wether to go or not. That's currently the policy in Virginia. As I said earlier, I and my friends who are also smokers only patronize restaurants in Washington that have an outside dining area; in Winter, we go to Virginia. If I. as a smoker, am not welcome, then neither is my money or patronage. I realize this is a "hot button" issue, and would not criticize those of you with differing opinions. This is mine.

Erin

01-08-2007, 08:14 PM

sammy

01-08-2007, 11:14 PM

They could have worked this out where they had smoking and non smoking pubs/bars then everyone would have a "choice".
Since this ban has come in my mom has been getting complaints about the noise outside the pub because everyone even the non smokers are sitting out side.

And while all this is going on they are still smoking in the house of lords,house of commons and prisons!

Exactly Erin! Comes to something when prisoners have more choice than the ordinary law abiding pub-goer! Of course the reasoning behind that is the probable trouble the inmates would cause if they banned it in prisons. As for the House of Commons, oh the hypocrisy! :evil:

Don't get me wrong here, I do agree that non-smokers have had no choice in the past, and it is right that they should be able to go out to smoke free places, but shouldn't smokers have some choice too?

Kim

01-08-2007, 11:30 PM

I am totally delighted that there is a ban. I am utterly utterly intolerant of smokers if they affect me and my quality of life. What they choose to do at home is up to them, but I am soooooooooo glad that, at last, the non-smokers will be protected from smoke in public places.

We all know the dangers of passive smoking, and I think it is wrong that I should come back smelling of others peoples cigarette smoke. I have noticed a definite increase in the amount of terminal cancer patients I visit suffering from lung cancer, not to mention other smoking related illnesses such as COPD.

I believe the government are 100% right in introducing this ban. :D

dandysmom

01-08-2007, 11:33 PM

Exactly Erin! Comes to something when prisoners have more choice than the ordinary law abiding pub-goer! Of course the reasoning behind that is the probable trouble the inmates would cause if they banned it in prisons. As for the House of Commons, oh the hypocrisy! :evil:

Don't get me wrong here, I do agree that non-smokers have had no choice in the past, and it is right that they should be able to go out to smoke free places, but shouldn't smokers have some choice too?
Exactly! Let the free market dictate the choice: if the owner wants no smoking, fine; if he doesn't post a sign so people will know. If the current trend continues there will probably be only a few smoking restaurants/pubs available, but at least there will be a choice!

Soupie

01-08-2007, 11:51 PM

I totally disagree, why should smokers stop at home? Non smokers should stop at home if they don't like to be around cigarettes. It's absolutely bizarre how this country is going. I'm so glad I'm not one of the younger generation of today.

Smokers don't have to stop at home - they just can't inflict carcinogenic toxins on other people in confined spaces. They can still go out and have a good time and if they can't enjoy themselves for 3 or 4 hours without a cigarette then I think that is a little sad ;)

The effects of passive smoking are something I feel strongly about as a relative who never smoked herself died as a result of lung cancer caused by passive smoking. It is a fact that one person's smoking habit puts other peoples health at risk.

I think the point about allowing drinking only pubs and working mens clubs to be able to choose whether or not to allow smoking is a pertinent one and perhaps something which should have been considered more closely when drafting the legislation. The very "culture" of working mens clubs is one where a high percentage of the clientele smoke heavily.

Whoever said barstaff could then choose to work in a non smoking or smoking workplace is seeing things too simplistically. Supply and demand would be such that there would be a higher number of applicants for the nonsmoking establishments and staff shortages in the smoking ones making it difficult for those who wish to work in a smoke free atmosphere to find employment. Some years back I worked for Chef and Brewer and we carried out a study into whether to ban smoking at the bar area and a very high percentage of bar staff stated they would prefer to work in an establishment where smoking was not allowed at the bar so at least they did not get smoke blown into their faces.

I cannot see the ban going any further than it does realistically - the effects of passive smoking are more of an issue in confined spaces where there is nowhere for the smoke to go - even ventilation does not completely disperse it.

I fully support the ban and I'm sure the smokers will probably jump on me for my opinions expressed above. The only aspect of the ban I feel is hazy is that the issue of smokers grouping on streets etc outside pubs has not been addressed.

I would point out that smokers standing outside on the pavement in front of a pub which does not have a licence covering drinking on the pavement are commiting an offence. Those pubs you see with tables and chairs on the pavement rather than in a beer garden to the front need a licence for those tables and for their customers to stand outside and drink.

So if you know anyone affected by this issue it may be worht their while checking with the Local Authority the extent of that pub's licence and reporting them if customers are standing outside drinking so they can smoke. If people cannot drink there while they smoke, they are less likely to stand outside and make a racket; and more likely to pop out for a sneaky puff and nip back in.

MrsH

02-08-2007, 12:37 AM

Well, I'm a great fence-sitter on this. I haven't smoked since Christmas last year, not that I smoked much, only about 3 or 4 a day. The thing is I always absolutely hated the smell of cigarettes in the house, the way it gets into cutains, carpets etc., so I always smoked out in the garden. Eventually I decided that I was smoking more out of habit than addiction, it was also bl***y freezing in the garden! so I stopped...just like that...no patches, no cravings, no regrets.

I don't object in the slightest to being in the company of smokers and I think it's a shame that the ban has been so complete, I would far rather have had smoking and non-smoking sections in the pub. However I am glad to be able to taste my food when we eat out rather than someone's cigarette smoke!

dinahsmum

02-08-2007, 08:54 AM

Ooops :oops:
Did I start this? Only mentioned how busy the local was, etc.
Catsey doesn't normally get into this sort of debate but it seems we've managed to keep our claws sheathed.
Seems to me that smokers like smoking, non-smokers generally hate the smoke and never the twain shall meet.

LucySiamese

02-08-2007, 11:16 AM

I used to be a smoker 4 years ago, and gave up for health reasons i think its unfair that smokers are being forced to either pack up or stay at home, if i still smoked i would have been annoyed about the ban! It should be up to the owners whether they have a smoking or non smoking pub or not! next they will say you cant smoke in your own home!! its crazy!

Soupie

02-08-2007, 12:20 PM

i think its unfair that smokers are being forced to either pack up or stay at home, if i still smoked i would have been annoyed about the ban! It should be up to the owners whether they have a smoking or non smoking pub or not! next they will say you cant smoke in your own home!! its crazy!

Now lets not go overboard here - smokers are not being forced to give up or stay at home - no one has said if you smoke you cannot go out of the house, just that you cannot smoke while you are in this place. They are being prevented from smoking in confined places where their habit affects people who don't smoke. Smoking is a health risk and the ban prevents those who don't mind risking their health from risking the health of those who don't indulge.

Smokers have not lost the choice to smoke at all and I find it rather irritating that those who oppose the ban use this as an argument when it is not correct. Smokers can still smoke - just not in certain areas where other people have to put up with it.

The government are hardly likely to stop people smoking in their own homes - that's a bit of a daft thing to say. If the government wanted to do that they would ban smoking altogether which they won't do as they get revenue from the tax paid on ciggies and the tobacco companies and people who smoke would be up in arms.

I find it a relief (as do many other nonsmokers I am sure) to go out for a meal or a drink and to be able to come home without a sore hoarse throat from the thick fog of smoke and with my clothes smelling like clothes rather than cigarettes. I have absolutely no objection to people smoking in their own homes and gardens and in the open air as it doesn't affect me but why should I have to have my health put at risk by someone elses choice which is what was happening where smoking was allowed in the places it is now banned.

Soupie prepares to get flamed :roll:

LucySiamese

02-08-2007, 12:46 PM

Now lets not go overboard here - smokers are not being forced to give up or stay at home - no one has said if you smoke you cannot go out of the house, just that you cannot smoke while you are in this place. They are being prevented from smoking in confined places where their habit affects people who don't smoke. Smoking is a health risk and the ban prevents those who don't mind risking their health from risking the health of those who don't indulge.

Smokers have not lost the choice to smoke at all and I find it rather irritating that those who oppose the ban use this as an argument when it is not correct. Smokers can still smoke - just not in certain areas where other people have to put up with it.

The government are hardly likely to stop people smoking in their own homes - that's a bit of a daft thing to say. If the government wanted to do that they would ban smoking altogether which they won't do as they get revenue from the tax paid on ciggies and the tobacco companies and people who smoke would be up in arms.

I find it a relief (as do many other nonsmokers I am sure) to go out for a meal or a drink and to be able to come home without a sore hoarse throat from the thick fog of smoke and with my clothes smelling like clothes rather than cigarettes. I have absolutely no objection to people smoking in their own homes and gardens and in the open air as it doesn't affect me but why should I have to have my health put at risk by someone elses choice which is what was happening where smoking was allowed in the places it is now banned.

Soupie prepares to get flamed :roll:

I agree that the smoking ban where food is served is a good thing, as i personally dont like to come home smelling of fags,or to sit and eat in a foggy place, but like i said to ban all pubs is unfair there should smoking and non smoking pubs, it makes it fair for everyone then.

My oh works with my dad and another bloke who smokes and he is not allowed to smoke in the works van, if he gets caught smoking in there the company gets fined, my oh and my dad have no problems with him smoking as they used to smoke so how is that fair?

In the winter people are going to have to either leave theire fags at home, smoke in the freezing cold or give up!

And i was just saying the way this country is going, soon they will tell people they cant even smoke in theire own homes its stupid, they are trying to ban everything, like dogs playing off the lead, tail docking, 4x4's, fox hunting ect, it just gets peoples back up at the end of the day!

Soupie

02-08-2007, 01:05 PM

[QUOTE=LucySiamese;408004]I agree that the smoking ban where food is served is a good thing, as i personally dont like to come home smelling of fags,or to sit and eat in a foggy place, but like i said to ban all pubs is unfair there should smoking and non smoking pubs, it makes it fair for everyone then.

My oh works with my dad and another bloke who smokes and he is not allowed to smoke in the works van, if he gets caught smoking in there the company gets fined, my oh and my dad have no problems with him smoking as they used to smoke so how is that fair?
QUOTE]

It's not about being fair or unfair - ithe ban is about the health risks caused by passive smoking. As I explained on a previous entry to have smoking and non smoking pubs is something which could have been considered more but re the staffing people are more likely to want to work in a non smoking pub - research was done into this by several breweries. So who staffs these smoking pubs? and how does one then deal with the issue of providing a safe working environment when the pub would be full of carcinogenic toxins constantly?

A workplace where any employee is at risk from passive smoking cannot be classed particularly "safe" - what happens in the future to those employees who worked there get lung cancer. Who is responsible for that? if one excludes the employers in smoking pubs from that liability then it will be even harder to staff those establishments!

That is where the bit about the van above comes in. A works van is a workplace and must be treated as such.

People keep talking about what is fair and what is unfair and bringing emotion into the discussion. The simple fact is smoking is a health risk to those who smoke and those around them! People talk about discrimination - this is not discrimination but an act brought in to control the health risk inflicted by a certain percentage of society's addiction.

For those who say it's not fair that they can't sit and have a cigarette inside while they drink my pint then please tell me what you would say to the person with lung cancer from passive smoking that they got from sitting in pubs in the evening with their mates unaware that they were breathing in carcinogens which would put their life at risk in the future? Not fair? you betcha it isn't fair they are ill because someone else smoked.

Now I may seem a little overdramatic there (and yes emotional) but it does frustrate me when people who oppose the smoking ban talk of civil liberty etc just because they can't smoke in a public place. They can still smoke and indulge themselves in their addiction. What the ban has actually done is attempt to protect those people who don't smoke.

Signing out now as repeating myself and as Fran I think it was says - the fence splits those people who will have to agree to disagree.

chelsea

02-08-2007, 01:08 PM

I used to smoke and gave up about 4 years ago now i think its right to stop smokeing where food is being served but for stoping smokeing in pubs i think is unfair cos when your haveing a drink thats when you enjoy haveing a fag they should have half smokeing and the other half non smokeing in all pubs and for people who think there health is at risk from being near someone thats smokes keep away from the smokers they could always go and stand out in the cold with there drinks works both ways in my book LOL

LucySiamese

02-08-2007, 01:13 PM

drinking is also a health risk it can damage your liver, why people harp on about smoking causing lung cancer it really grates on me!

Smoking, Drinking, and Eating all have health risks...

Samz5

02-08-2007, 02:18 PM

My mum is a landlady in a country pub, the pub has been run by my family for nearly 20 years, they serve food (curry) and every single member of staff is a smoker.
Most of the locals/regulars smoke too, so the smoking ban was going to have some kind of effect, we kind of expected a drop in regular customers and hoped the food would pick up to make up for it.
The first day of the ban, of course it rained, the pub was empty no food people or drinkers! Second day of the ban, up goes the smoking shelter and one of the locals comes in with a patio heater - purchased out of his own pocket because hes been coming in every day for years and he wants to help keep customers in the pub.
By the weekend the bar has 2 grumpy looking people sitting in it complaining that everyone is outside, and outside in the rain and wind are all the regulars smoking under there shelter having a great time, its really brought the village together and they are all putting their money together to get a big part of the garden some decking, they keep turning up with garden candles and all sorts of things to make it better.
Not what we were expecting at all, just seems very silly when a lot of the time there is no one in the pub at all and everyones outside - this is no exaggeration by 10 at night this is the usual situation.
As far as food trade being effected, so far its hard to tell, it seems just the same, except when its not raining more people chose to eat outside more than usual.

As far as my personal feelings on the matter, the ban doesn't effect me directly as I work from home I can smoke when I like, I don't often go to pubs / clubs because I don't drink alcohol and would rather not be around drunk people.

dandysmom

02-08-2007, 03:56 PM

Mags

02-08-2007, 04:00 PM

I agree with Soupie's point of view. The smokers think they are hard done by now.... but what about all the non smokers who, for years, have had to put up with with streaming eyes and inhaling other people's smoke?

People who smoke are still welcome in the pubs, it's just that they have to leave their habit outside the doors. Is it not possible to go into a pub and forgo smoking for an hour or two?

dandysmom

02-08-2007, 04:01 PM

I agree that the smoking ban where food is served is a good thing, as i personally dont like to come home smelling of fags,or to sit and eat in a foggy place, but like i said to ban all pubs is unfair there should smoking and non smoking pubs, it makes it fair for everyone then.

My oh works with my dad and another bloke who smokes and he is not allowed to smoke in the works van, if he gets caught smoking in there the company gets fined, my oh and my dad have no problems with him smoking as they used to smoke so how is that fair?

In the winter people are going to have to either leave theire fags at home, smoke in the freezing cold or give up!

And i was just saying the way this country is going, soon they will tell people they cant even smoke in theire own homes its stupid, they are trying to ban everything, like dogs playing off the lead, tail docking, 4x4's, fox hunting ect, it just gets peoples back up at the end of the day!

It's called the Nanny State! We here in the States have a ban on trans fats now in many places. Doesn't bother me at all as I don't eat the sort of food that it's used in, but what about people who love their french fries and doughnuts...they know it's not good for them, but do we really need the government making those decisions for everyone??

dandysmom

02-08-2007, 04:04 PM

dinahsmum

02-08-2007, 04:08 PM

[/b]Life comes with a health risk!!
I believe it's a terminal condition :roll:

dandysmom

02-08-2007, 04:13 PM

:-D :-D :-D Good one, DM!!!!

Kim

02-08-2007, 04:50 PM

drinking is also a health risk it can damage your liver, why people harp on about smoking causing lung cancer it really grates on me!

Smoking, Drinking, and Eating all have health risks...

I think the difference is that if people chose to drink to excess and damage their liver then that is their choice. I like a drink, but in moderation (mostly! :-D ) Smoking affects everyone around you. Apparently even our pets can be affected by passive smoking. It is not just the health risks I object to, I hate the smell of smoke on my clothes and hair.

I am overweight, I know that and I suppose that could damage my health, but it is not affecting anyone else!

I think like others have said, we will have to agree to disagree. I'm so glad this discussion never got nasty!! :)

Someone mentioned working mens clubs, I have to agree that a blanket smoking ban at these places is unecessary.

Donna

02-08-2007, 08:44 PM

drinking is also a health risk it can damage your liver, why people harp on about smoking causing lung cancer it really grates on me!

Smoking, Drinking, and Eating all have health risks...

Because if you want to drink yourself to death it does not affect me.

Because you want to eat yourself to death with unhealthy food it does not affect me.

:D

LucySiamese

02-08-2007, 08:59 PM

Because if you want to drink yourself to death it does not affect me.

Because you want to eat yourself to death with unhealthy food it does not affect me.

:D

That maybe so:

But what if they said right the nation is too fat and enforced it that restuarants and pubs cant sell burgers and chips ect,or steak and chips followed by choccy fudge cake and you could only get healthy food, people would be unhappy,

But because they say right smoking ban all the non smokers thinks its fantastic, you can see how this would annoy the people that do smoke.

I still say it should be up to the landlady/landlords whether they have a smoking or non smoking pub or not, depending on who they get the most custom from! why should theire profits suffer?

Donna

02-08-2007, 09:03 PM

That maybe so:

But what if they said right the nation is too fat and enforced it that restuarants and pubs cant sell burgers and chips ect,or steak and chips followed by choccy fudge cake and you could only get healthy food, people would be unhappy,

But because they say right smoking ban all the non smokers thinks its fantastic, you can see how this would annoy the people that do smoke.

I still say it should be up to the landlady/landlords whether they have a smoking or non smoking pub or not, depending on who they get the most custom from! why should theire profits suffer?

If they stopped selling steak and chips then I would not have the choice to eat it. Simple.

But that is not comparable in this argument because what people eat does not affect anybody's health but their own.

Pubs having the right to chose will not work, as some people smoke and some do not so it will split groups of friends, it will cause problems employing staff.

I am sure all the smokers will calm down soon enough anyway as no amount of moaning will get the ban unbanned ;)

LucySiamese

02-08-2007, 09:15 PM

If they stopped selling steak and chips then I would not have the choice to eat it. Simple.

But that is not comparable in this argument because what people eat does not affect anybody's health but their own.

Pubs having the right to chose will not work, as some people smoke and some do not so it will split groups of friends, it will cause problems employing staff.

I am sure all the smokers will calm down soon enough anyway as no amount of moaning will get the ban unbanned ;)

When was the last time you was in hospital, or needed to see a doctor? Because the tax on those fags are what pays for it! The nhs is bad enough and its going to get worse!

I just think there are more worth while things for the government to concentrate on rather than picking on smokers ect...

Also there are enough people unemployed not to worry about working in a smokey pub,most of them smoke anyway.

what im getting at with the food, is all the non smokers wouldnt like it if they were told what they could eat! so why tell smokers where they can smoke! :?

EmmaG

02-08-2007, 09:26 PM

I am 100% for the ban, about time too!!! I hated going into a pub/restuarant and having to breath in somebody elses smoke. I will certainly go to more pubs/restaurants now :)

Donna

02-08-2007, 09:28 PM

I am sure the tax on all the cigarettes that are bought doesnt even meet the bill half way on all the smoking related diseases this country has to pay for.

EmmaG

02-08-2007, 09:29 PM

But because they say right smoking ban all the non smokers thinks its fantastic, you can see how this would annoy the people that do smoke.

But NOT smoking isn't going to kill anybody is it???

EmmaG

02-08-2007, 09:30 PM

drinking is also a health risk it can damage your liver, why people harp on about smoking causing lung cancer it really grates on me!

Smoking, Drinking, and Eating all have health risks...

But smoking kills innocent people, me eating a cream cake and killing myself by overeating is only ever going to kill myself not anybody else.

EmmaG

02-08-2007, 09:34 PM

I am sure the tax on all the cigarettes that are bought doesnt even meet the bill half way on all the smoking related diseases this country has to pay for.

No it doesn't Donna, us non smokers who work WILL be paying for treatment for smokers through our taxes and national insurance payments.

Jac

02-08-2007, 09:36 PM

I wasn't going to get invloved with this but I'm going to put my two cents worth in.

The ban was brought out in Scotland over a year ago. I am a smoker. I never lit up when someone was eating. We had smoking and non smoking area's for eating. Most of the time I went to the non smoking area anyway.
What we are really talking about is freedom of choice here and it's been taken away.

You could quite easily have had pubs and clubs that didn't sell food to choose whether or not they wantd to be smoke free. Remember as someone quite rightly pointed out that the goverment gets alot of revenue from taxes on cigs.
In Scotland we have pubs and clubs going under because of this ban. People would rather sit at home and have people over than stand in the snow for a cig.

The powers that be are now saying there should be a ban on smoking in your car because your not concentrating. Right we will ban the raido as well and talking to passengers???? whatever next??? big brother is watching you!!!

Donna

02-08-2007, 09:44 PM

What we are really talking about is freedom of choice here and it's been taken away.

!!!

But why cant the smokers see that the non smokers NEVER had a choice in the first place???

That is what I find hard to understand. You are all educated and sensible people. But you cannot accept that us non smokers NEVER had a choice. We had to sit and breath in all that poison if we ever wanted to go out. We had the choice of staying in or being poisoned. The smokers now have a choice of staying in, going out and popping outside for a smoke. You have your choice still.

Am I missing something here?

Erin

02-08-2007, 09:49 PM

Nobody is disputing the fact that the no smokers didnt have a choice,just that this ban could have been been worked out better with smoking an non smoking bars then we would all have a choice.

Jac

02-08-2007, 09:54 PM

Exactly.. When I was growing up it was sophistactaed to smoke. All the film stars did it. It was advertised on all the bill boards raceing cars ect. Then someone found out it was "bad" and ofcourse it is. Nobody is taking that away. As Erin said it's the way it's been done.
You have gay bars. Why not smoking bars?

dandysmom

02-08-2007, 10:03 PM

Nobody is disputing the fact that the no smokers didnt have a choice,just that this ban could have been been worked out better with smoking an non smoking bars then we would all have a choice.

Exactly.. When I was growing up it was sophistactaed to smoke. All the film stars did it. It was advertised on all the bill boards raceing cars ect. Then someone found out it was "bad" and ofcourse it is. Nobody is taking that away. As Erin said it's the way it's been done.
You have gay bars. Why not smoking bars?

Amen to both of you!!!!!!!

EmmaG

02-08-2007, 10:10 PM

You have gay bars. Why not smoking bars?

But walking into a gay bar isn't going to have any effect on MY health?????

Jac

02-08-2007, 10:21 PM

But walking into a gay bar isn't going to have any effect on MY health?????

It would if someone forced there attentions on you.

Now were getting silly. Why wont you see the two sided penny?

and nobody said i would effect your health. Just pointing out a fact and an option.

Mags

02-08-2007, 10:22 PM

I'm sure my generation has paid enough into the NHS over the years without them having to worry about the income from cigarettes.

I think some people are missing the point here, the ban on smoking has been brought in for health reasons ....... the non smokers here are not critcising the smokers. They just don't want to breathe in other people's stale smoke and suffer from it through no fault of their own in later years.

Jac

02-08-2007, 10:25 PM

No Mags it's the way it's been done. No freedom of choice. You could quite easily have had smoking bars clubs pubs resturants ect as you could have had non the same.

dandysmom

02-08-2007, 10:25 PM

I'm beginning to think that this is coming to an end, or ought to. We have all expressed our opinions very clearly, and I'm happy to say, in a nice non-argumentive way; no one is changing her opinion. And, as was pointed out, whinging isn't going to change things. Anyone agree with me?

Jac

02-08-2007, 10:27 PM

Totally DM as I said it's been her in Scotland for over a year.

alexgirl73

02-08-2007, 10:27 PM

amen to that Eileen!

EmmaG

02-08-2007, 10:29 PM

It would if someone forced there attentions on you.

That "could" happen but it wouldn't be a certainty, as soon as I walk into an environment that contains smoke it immediately effects my health.

And as for seeing "the other side" of the penny? why should I when it is MY health at risk?? If I wanted to slowly kill myself by smoking I would do, however I choose not to, my choice, and me NOT smoking doesn't effect anybody elses health.

Well at the end of the day it IS now banned, like a lot of other things in Law for the good of people, if we didn't have laws to protect people what kind of world would be live in??

Elaine

02-08-2007, 10:38 PM

Final word from me;) maybe......
I do see and understand the points that non smokers have made but can i just say,
as soon as you walk into the street your lungs are being filled with pollution too.
as for paying for us smoking peoples ill health, we also pay for junkies, alcoholics, car crashes blah blah blah.
Final final word the Law continually fails people.
I have said it before but I personally feel there are much bigger things that need to be addressed. Violent crime being one of them.

dandysmom

02-08-2007, 10:44 PM

Summed up beautifully, Elaine!

Kim

02-08-2007, 10:51 PM

That "could" happen but it wouldn't be a certainty, as soon as I walk into an environment that contains smoke it immediately effects my health.

And as for seeing "the other side" of the penny? why should I when it is MY health at risk?? If I wanted to slowly kill myself by smoking I would do, however I choose not to, my choice, and me NOT smoking doesn't effect anybody elses health.

Well at the end of the day it IS now banned, like a lot of other things in Law for the good of people, if we didn't have laws to protect people what kind of world would be live in??

Well said Emma, I really can't see the 'other side' of the penny either. Non-smokers need to be protected from smoke in public places, simple as that. Now the government has seen sense to enforce a ban.

Regarding the incme from cigarette taxes. This really is consumed by the amount of money paid out to nurse / treat people suffering/dying from smoking related conditions; Lung cancer and other forms of cancer, COPD, emphesema, etc.

Fran

03-08-2007, 12:00 AM

they are trying to ban everything, like dogs playing off the lead, tail docking, 4x4's, fox hunting ect, it just gets peoples back up at the end of the day!

Long gone are the days I used to enjoy hitching my horse trailer up to my gas guzzling 4x4 and heading out into the countryside, fox hunting and enjoying several ciggies en route :roll: This Government has changed my life and in my opinion not for the better :(

No it doesn't Donna, us non smokers who work WILL be paying for treatment for smokers through our taxes and national insurance payments.

and having paid 20 years of tax and NI myself and hubby who continues to do so, how do I feel that my money has gone and still goes on to support the NHS treat obesity related diseases (High blood pressure, heart attacks, strokes, breathing problems etc etc)?? Visit A&E at this time of night and they'll be rushed off their feet with drink related problems?? Should the Government put a cap on how much we are allowed to drink per night? or indeed refuse to treat us over a certain weight?? It's all bizarre :?

Fran

03-08-2007, 12:20 AM

As I said previously, I do think we are all going to have to agree to disagree on this one ;)

dandysmom

03-08-2007, 02:17 AM

Amen, Fran; as I said earlier, I think we've all expressed ourselves, haven't changed anyones mind, and I do think it's time to drop this now.........

Rosie

07-08-2007, 02:14 PM

I am a smoker but I am happy with the ban BUT it really really annoys me that we are treated like lepers while drinkers cause far more antisocial behaviour that smokers, ie. you don't go and get into fights because you smoke or beat up your wife or kill someone drink driving etc etc etc. Time people stopped making a scapegoat out of smokers!!:evil:

babycakes

07-08-2007, 03:13 PM

I am trying not to smoke and am more of a social smoker now so this ban has helped me a lot to pack in because it does become a habit in the bar to smoke because everyone else did.

What I am opposed to is getting in a taxi before I go out and it stinks of smoke. :mad: The driver is or has been smoking, it's a confined space and I have to breathe in his smoke, granted it's his car but I am paying him to take me to my destination. I am not allowed to smoke in my job he shouldn't either. :roll:
So do we request non-smoking drivers in the future?

(I do agree there should be smoking and non smoking oubs as this gives people the choice to go in ir not.)

Hollybrigden

09-05-2008, 11:33 PM

I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect smokers to go outside to smoke. It is fact that second hand smoke is dangerous to your health, and non-smokers should not be forced to breathe it in if they want to go out. It personally makes me feel quite sick, I get light headed and queasy. When I was younger and tried smoking myself I just ended up nearly fainting or projectile vomiting, and would hate sitting in the same car as my mum who'd be puffing away. If I complained then it would just be, well walk then!!

Unfortunately so many people associate smoking with having a good time, or relaxing and so pubs and clubs are losing money. I know my local pub is so quiet now.
But hopefully in time it will pick up. You've just got to persevere and people will stop sulking and hopefully stop smoking as much too! My mum actually welcomes the ban because she smokes less now when she goes out which she knows is good for her. I hate the way some smokers get really angry. They don't own the pubs, and one of their human rights is not to inflict fag smoke on other people, damaging their lungs as well as their own. The ban isn't a deliberate way of telling smokers off, or making them feel uncomfortable by standing outside, it's just to free buildings of harmful smoke.

If you think about it fairly, which person should be made to go outside or stay home ? The smoker or the non-smoker? The 'right' or the most moral choice has to be the smoker. If you make it a non-smoking pub then both parties can go out, and the person who chooses to abuse their health can stand outside while doing so. In a smoking pub then a non-smoker will have to either be unhappy or stay home. Someone doing something harmful should not have power.

nursecroft

10-05-2008, 10:57 AM

If i have a glass of wine im not forcing it down someone elses throat too. I love the fact smoking is banned, i hated going into bars and having to inhale other peoples smoke, damaging my lungs. I am a thoracic nurse, alcohol when it is not abused can be good for your health, eg red wine, the problem is people dont do it in moderation. Smoking is NEVER good for your health trust me if you saw what i have seen on my ward you would not be able to put a cigarette in your mouth again, my housemate gave up with some of the horror stories i told and the times i came in in tears after a horrible day. Not being able to breath because your lungs are so damaged is my greatest fear now, its horrible to watch, its not just lung cancer there are multiple conditions and diseases you can contract through smoking. Also if you need to go have an op for something else it effects your fitness for anaesthetics.

My real dad smokes (not alot) and so do a few of my friends and it really breaks my heart.

Hollybrigden

10-05-2008, 11:33 AM

Nursecroft- please tell me some of the stories!! My mum smokes and I wish she'd stop. My worst nightmare is watching her die, especially of something agonising like emphysema.

nursecroft

10-05-2008, 11:40 AM

I dont want to upset or scare you, its very difficult to persuade someone to stop smoking, i lived with my housemate for 2 years before her gave up, he hated seeing me upset at times (im only human!) i used to smoke socially when i was out but it actually makes me wretch now, i couldnt do it if i wanted to. If she came on my ward and saw the size of the chest drains we put in think that would be enough to put her off, alot of patients give up after being on my ward, trouble is sometimes its too late.

Lian

12-05-2008, 11:45 AM

I'm 100% behind the ban. I personally think it is a horrid habit and it is finally nice to go out and come back home not smelling of smoke. It is the smokers choice to smoke, but what choice does a non smoker have when they are forced to inhale other people's smoke in pubs and restaurants!

scarycatlady

12-05-2008, 02:29 PM

You are right, it is a horrid habit. However, it is not anyone elses place to "outlaw" it.
Most smokers are pretty considerate of non smokers. To not smoke in a steak house or the Mcdonalds is one thing. But to ban smoking from the bars??? That should be the owners choice. He knows best if his clientele is smoking or non smoking.
Also I have a sister who is "allergic" to cigarette smoke. IF you light up around her she will cough and sneeze. But if she goes to the Casino you don't hear one cough out of her. Now what is up with that??
This is just one more nail in our personal rights. You wait, now it is smoking. Let that sink in, and then there will be another ban on something else, and another.....
Next it will be overweight people that they go after. I read an article the other day that says obesity has surpassed smoking as the number one health problem. So how do you suppose they will handle that? Will the government start counting your calories for you?
I know smoking is bad, but so is drinking, but so far no ban on that. Oh, wait, they tried that and it didn't work.
And what about the fact that we in the midwest have to smell the hog manure? Nothing done about that. Now that WILL bring tears to your eyes!!
I work full time. I pay taxes, I go to church, I vote and am involved in community service. And I am tired of being treated like a second class citizen because I smoke!!

Lian

12-05-2008, 02:49 PM

Yikes, I was just giving me opinion along with everyone else!

yola

12-05-2008, 02:59 PM

Don't worry Lian - I'm 100% with you on this one, and for once in total agreement with our govt for pushing this through!

Scarycatlady - it's actually law here in the UK now, and I think even many smokers will admit that eating/drinking environments are far more pleasant as a result.

I think even our drinking culture here in the UK is moving away from the ciggie and a pint to wine-based drinking with food and this move just reflects that transition. Unless your talking about going out clubbing of course.

As for your diet/overweight comment - that's for another discussion thread, but there is some argument in encouraging people to take responsibility for their own health rather than always looking to someone else to sort their problems out for them!