rescue dog policy (neutering)

[smudgley]

Now I'm not want to usually start a debate & neutering is the one thing that people often feel strongly about.
I'm not wanting to know if you breed from or neuter your own animals...put them aside for a minute and let me know your thoughts on this.

On a dog forum that I go on, there's a debate about neutering rescues. Won't say anymore at this stage other than what are your thoughts....(talking dogs here)
I'm happy to tell you my views on this but wondered what you lot think first.


Do most breed rescues that you are aware of neuter?

Do you know any that don't?

Should they?

What about if a rescue didn't neuter & placed entire dogs?

What about if a rescue couldn't afford to neuter?

really intersted to hear your thoughts!

Thanks. :cool:

[alexgirl73]

My tuppence worth (for what it's worth lol) Is that dog rescues should work on the same principle of cat rescues! Almost all cat rescues neuter as soon as a cat is brought in, dogs should be the same. Many people let their dogs roam the streets the same as cats do (my street has loads out on their own), and as with cats, It's better for the animal to be neutered.

I don't know about the cost factor as I've no idea how much it costs to do a dog nowadays, but I do think it should be done as a rule.

[Animagus]

In my opinion there are too many strays, and all cats and dogs alike, who have been rescued should be neutered whether they are a particular breed or moggy or whatever a non breed dog is called .

[smudgley]

Mongrel. :-D

[Jac]

I personally think there are to many so called rescues about that say they spay, then when it comes to the crunch they dont with exuses like, sorry but he/she was not doing well in kennels. We had to get he/she out. It's then down to the new owner to get it done. OK some say if you dont send proof in 6 months we will take the dog back. It never happens.
If rescues dont have the resourses to spay they shouldnt be doing it.
I could get on my soap box but I wont.
At the end of the day, there are too many dogs/cats in rescue or abandond through ignorance.
Unfortunatly it's a throw away sociaty now a days. Whether pedigree, mungrel or moggy.

[Animagus]

LOl thanks that word just seemed to escape me lol x

[smudgley]

I personally think there are to many so called rescues about that say they spay, then when it comes to the crunch they dont with exuses like, sorry but he/she was not doing well in kennels. We had to get he/she out. It's then down to the new owner to get it done. OK some say if you dont send proof in 6 months we will take the dog back. It never happens.
If rescues dont have the resourses to spay they shouldnt be doing it.
I could get on my soap box but I wont.
At the end of the day, there are too many dogs/cats in rescue or abandond through ignorance.
Unfortunatly it's a throw away sociaty now a days. Whether pedigree, mungrel or moggy.

This is my thoughts exactly Jac
I've recently been going on a Rotti forum & somehow a debate started about breeders & one about rescues. I just read the posts & took it all in, but then they started talking about donations etc & then neutering. Some of the Rotti rescues don't neuter. :shock: Which I just find totally unbelievable. I can't believe that a rescue - a well known breed specific rescue(not just one, but 2 or 3 of them) don't neuter, I thought all rescues did & I think it's totally irresponsible. There arerescues that do... & if I was to get a rotti rescueI certainly know now who it would be through, but big strong dgs like Rottweilers, being placed with people uneutered....:evil: :evil:
Nothing against people who choose to or not to neuter their own dogs, that is very different. this is poor darlings who've found themselves in a rescue with an uncertain future....

[Jac]

Yeh they say they dont have the funds!!!!! Have you seen how much of a "donation" they ask?? Pure dribble. Ofcourse they can afford it, If they cant then they should'nt be "rescueing"
Another point. A donation is exactly that....a donation, but they put a price on how much of a donation they want. That's not a donation that's selling.

[vicki]

I think all rescue dogs should be neutered, regardless of breed.
I am aware of a lot of breed specific rescues who dont neuter and some who advise against it! *shock* which in my opinion is just wrong, a dog in rescue shoud not be given the oppertunity to possibly breed, chances are it has some issues related to non-neutering which is why its in rescue in the first place. I know of a boxer rehomed from a boxer rescue who is now being used as a stud dog *mad*.
I find that all breed rescues neuter all dogs, breed specific rescues tend to not or dont enforce it.

[Moli]

Yeh they say they dont have the funds!!!!! Have you seen how much of a "donation" they ask?? Pure dribble. Ofcourse they can afford it, If they cant then they should'nt be "rescueing"
Another point. A donation is exactly that....a donation, but they put a price on how much of a donation they want. That's not a donation that's selling.I am with Jac on this one, if you run a rescue, every dog thats is rehomed should be neutered, I know of someone who took on a pedigree rescue and used it for breeding!!!!No body did a follow up, so do not know about it...

[borderdawn]

I am pro neutering females, but not nesessarilly males. For health reasons alone, I think all female rescuse shouel be spayed but males, personally I'd leave it up to the owner.
Dawn.

[Elaine]

Can I ask why you are not so bothered about the neutering of males Dawn?
My personal feeling is that all both male and female should be neutered, especially from a rescue point of view, both for medical and population reasons.
I also feel the same way about humans but thats never going to happen is it:lol:

[sarahd]

I always thought the donation you paid was to cover the cost of neutering and part of their stay whilst in the rescue. Obviously not it seems.
Seems an easy way for some people to make money if they can get hold of a pedigree dog via a rescue as no doubt they will be paying a lot less than they would from a breeder and then go on to mate the dog and sell the puppies. Some of the prices people ask for none registered pedigree dogs and cats are ridiculous nowadays but people still pay it.

Sarah
x

[random]

Ok i'm going to sound like a hypocrite here, having had 2 accidental matings of moggies, but I think all rescues should neuter dogs and bitches, whether they be mongrels, pedigree, or even excellent pedigree worth breeding from. The fact remains that once in a rescue home, they face an uncertain future, and as much as homes/owners are vetted, people can be deceiving and once a dog is in rescue for whatever reason, it is my opinion that it should be neutered. The fact remains that SOMEONE bred the dog, and whoever did should accept a lifelong commitment to the dog and take it back at any age if it can be no longer cared for by whomever the breeder sold it to. If they cannot do this then yes the dog should be neutered to prevent a similar reoccurance.

I say the same about breeders, it is obvious you cannot neuter an 8 week old pup, or tell if it will be worth breeding from in the future. But I believe all puppies should be sold with endorsements, and if sold to a pet only home, the new owner should have to sign a neuter contract, whereas if this is not carried out by a certain date/age of the dog, the dog is legally to be returned/collected by the breeder. The same point to be made as if a dog is bought with a view to breeding, the breeder should only lift endorsements when satisfied that said dog is a good enough example of the breed to be bred from, and if not then the dog must be neutered, and a contract for this should also be set up at the point of puppy purchase. JMO

I do know that a lot of breed specific rescues don't neuter, I would even say the majority of breed specific. I can't say for every breed but I do know of rescues for my own favoured breeds, and their policies.

All in all if a dog is bred for the right reasons (to better the breed), it will have endorsements on it's pedigree anyway, and 'should', never end up in any type of rescue as responsible breeders will always take back a dog they have bred, at any age, and keep in touch with the owners all pups they have bred for the lifetime of their pups. If this were always the case no dog would ever end up in a rescue in the first place, even accidental matings, but we all know the harsh truth and it will never be a perfect world!

[borderdawn]

Can I ask why you are not so bothered about the neutering of males Dawn?
My personal feeling is that all both male and female should be neutered, especially from a rescue point of view, both for medical and population reasons.
I also feel the same way about humans but thats never going to happen is it:lol:

It not that I am not bothered Elaine, I really cannot see any health justifiable benefit for a male. They often become targets for entire males, they are more likely (in my experience) to suffer weight gain, their coats change, as do some females, but in some breeds its conserably worse in the neutered males than the females.
Dawn.

[Elaine]

I have always beleived that there are health benefits for both males and females by having them neutered and spayed. Pyometra and mamery cancer in females, testicular canser, anal adenomas and prostrate problems in males.

[smudgley]

I have always beleived that there are health benefits for both males and females by having them neutered and spayed. Pyometra and mamery cancer in females, testicular canser, anal adenomas and prostrate problems in males.

agree with Elaine, I think there are health benefits for males & females to be neutered

[Rosie]

I am 100% for neutering BUT:

My Holly came from a very large northern dogs home. They deal with upto and I am sure sometimes, over 10,000 dogs per year. They neither neuter nor homecheck. My argument is this because of the quantities of dogs they have (not by choice but because they have to) a quick turnover is paramount to save as many dogs as possible. They do give neutering vouchers and have a very reasonably priced neutering scheme at the home. Although not ideal I can't see an alternative.

One person on a dog rescue said "I would rather have one dog rehomed properly". When asked the question of what happened to the other 9,999 I received no answer.

Pros and Cons

[Elaine]

I dont have the answers and recognise it's a big issue and not one that can be resolved easily. My feeling is that by not doing home checks and by not neutering/spaying stray dogs and cats you are only contributing further to the problems of homeless animals and are not part of the solution.

[smudgley]

I am 100% for neutering BUT:

My Holly came from a very large northern dogs home. They deal with upto and I am sure sometimes, over 10,000 dogs per year. They neither neuter nor homecheck. My argument is this because of the quantities of dogs they have (not by choice but because they have to) a quick turnover is paramount to save as many dogs as possible. it is by choice Rosie.They do give neutering vouchers and have a very reasonably priced neutering scheme at the home. Although not ideal I can't see an alternative.

One person on a dog rescue said "I would rather have one dog rehomed properly". I would agree with the person that said this When asked the question of what happened to the other 9,999 I received no answer.

Pros and Cons

It's a sad world out there & whilst we can not help rescue all the cats & dogs in it, we can certainly ensure the ones that are rescued are dealt with & rehomed responsibly. To not H/C or neuter is in my opinion irresponsible.

[borderdawn]

Vets! thats the pain, inject it, chip it, chop its nuts off!! its all they go on about and they make people feel very guilty if they question it. Take me for instance, I took Orey to be vacced at our "cheap" vacc and neutering branch of our practice, (£33 as opposed to £49) I got a newbie Vet! Shall I microchip him now? NO! Ill do him myself! Would you like to book him in for castration now? NO! and before the spiel came flooding out, I left! Its WRONG!

Prostate problems are nowhere near as common as they tell you, they make out its every other dog. Breeding bitches and unspayed bitches are the ones most at risk from illness, and illnesses that kill them, like Pyo and Mammary tumours, testicular tumour numbers in males are incredibly small in comparison.

I have just had a second year London Vet school student with me for a week, its drummed into them, spay and neuter, spay and neuter, spay and neuter, when asked about the health benefits, she could quote PYO etc.. which I agree with but the tumour thing, well its not as common is it!!!!

[vicki]

Well I'm afraid I'll have to disgree with you about hardly seeing the problems in male dogs! I would say on average we diagnose an elderly entire dog with prostate tumour/problems upto 10 times a week, we are always scanning entire dogs as they have the problems related to it and we are finding it, we castrate a large number of dogs with prostate tumours, testicular tumours and anal adenomas so maybe you are lucky with your entire dogs but it certainly happens on a very frequent basis and the health benefits for neutering dogs are just as high as those for bitches. A dog with a prostate tumour that owners wont castrate is a very poorly dog :(

[smudgley]

I work with dogs that are neutered "later in life"... we do see females with problems, but only rarely do we see males with any testicular tumours / prostate problems.

So I would guess females are probably more prone to health problems than males relating to being entire...

The reason I started this thread was about rehoming rescues uneutered, which is what I feel strongly about. I don't have any views either way about peoples choice to neuter their own pets. {except maybe outdoor cats}:roll:

[borderdawn]

Well I'm afraid I'll have to disgree with you about hardly seeing the problems in male dogs! I would say on average we diagnose an elderly entire dog with prostate tumour/problems upto 10 times a week, we are always scanning entire dogs as they have the problems related to it and we are finding it, we castrate a large number of dogs with prostate tumours, testicular tumours and anal adenomas so maybe you are lucky with your entire dogs but it certainly happens on a very frequent basis and the health benefits for neutering dogs are just as high as those for bitches. A dog with a prostate tumour that owners wont castrate is a very poorly dog :(
Yeah, my old dog was diagnosd with an enlarged prostate, turned out he ate a potato!!!!! Cant believe them all you know, many Vets are chop 'em off specialists!

[Rosie]

It's a sad world out there & whilst we can not help rescue all the cats & dogs in it, we can certainly ensure the ones that are rescued are dealt with & rehomed responsibly. To not H/C or neuter is in my opinion irresponsible.

Well I think the other 9,999 would disagree! I know many people who have rehomed from there and are very responsible. Am I to assume you would rather the others were pst?

[smudgley]

Well I think the other 9,999 would disagree! I know many people who have rehomed from there and are very responsible. Am I to assume you would rather the others were pst?

No you shouldn't assume I would rather they were PTS... never assume. ;)

They shouldn't take them in if they can't cope with the demand.
Any rescue that's taking them in should be responsible & not just get them in & out as fast as poss just to meet the demand!:roll:

[Elaine]

Yeah, my old dog was diagnosd with an enlarged prostate, turned out he ate a potato!!!!! Cant believe them all you know, many Vets are chop 'em off specialists!

:lol: :lol: :lol: That must of hurt, poor thing:lol: :lol: :lol:
I know you cannt beleive all vets, just look at all the animals PTS because of false negatives on inhouse testing. But thats digressing from this debate, sorry.

[Elaine]

Well I think the other 9,999 would disagree! I know many people who have rehomed from there and are very responsible. Am I to assume you would rather the others were pst?


I am sure many people who rehome are very responsible but there are equally those who arent and animals are once again back on the street. Its very sad to say and I know that the RSPCA etc have a reputation for having healthy yet homeless animals PTS, (which breaks my heart) but sometimes we have to be realistic, there simply are'nt enough homes to go round and as long as these animals are left un-neutered and un-speyed we will never find a resolution.

[Jac]

There are also people out there doing rescue who ARE only in it for the money! I speak from experiance.
Some dont home check, Vet check or do follow ups. Entire males are just left entire as are females.. Iknow of at least two people that have bred (sorry my heads away tonight and cant think how to spell) from rescue dogs and made alot of money from it. I'm talking about big breed dogs too. Totally out of order.
You get a dominant male, the people are afraid of him and he rules the roost, a resipe for disaster!
Iv'e seen that too!! People pinned to buckets because they have food in the car, or giving a dog a treat because its groweling at them:roll: . Some people dont always tell the truth when they go to rescues. Instead of paying £600 for a pup they get a young dog or bitch for £200 even £250:shock:

[borderdawn]

:lol: :lol: :lol: That must of hurt, poor thing:lol: :lol: :lol:
I know you cannt beleive all vets, just look at all the animals PTS because of false negatives on inhouse testing. But thats digressing from this debate, sorry.

It was similar symptoms Elaine, lower abdominal pain, hunched up, reluctance to poo, and with his age it was just "assumed" it was his prostate, diagnosis, castration!!!! It was only when the following day he sicked up a Jersey mid and he became cured, all was revealed!! Some Vets do not give enough consideration to other possibilities and reasons for not neutering, often making out owners are irressponsible.
Dawn.

[Rosie]

They shouldn't take them in if they can't cope with the demand.

They have absolutely no choice in the matter as it is more of a pound than a rescue and do a brilliant job so once again I ask do you think the majority should die to save the few (i.e. neutering and home checks) as there are only limited resources for that many dogs.

[smudgley]

They have absolutely no choice in the matter as it is more of a pound than a rescue and do a brilliant job so once again I ask do you think the majority should die to save the few (i.e. neutering and home checks) as there are only limited resources for that many dogs.

Of course they have a choice!!They do not HAVE to do anything. :roll:
I'm not saying that they don't do a brilliant job. I don't think the majority would die just because some of them are neutered...:? I haven't really got an issue with not home checking.

At the end of the day we all want the same things, we all want to save all the animals, but lets face it.. it will never happen, so we do the best we can. Lets agree to differ on what we personally feel is right as I feel we are going round in circles here.

[Rosie]

Can you explain why they have a choice when all the police and local Dog Wardens take strays there? I promise I will now leave it.

[smudgley]

Can you explain why they have a choice when all the police and local Dog Wardens take strays there?

They are not Forced to take them are they?

[borderdawn]

Hang on Rosie, are you talking a strays kennel here? If you are its exactly the same if not MORE important that they refuse if they have no space. These places are LISENCED establishments that must adhere to the laws governing them, it would be incredibly dangerous to "double up" or take more than they can cope with, can you just imagine what might happen here?

Its the same with any place taking in animals, if they dont have the space they say no. They would be doing the animal in question no favours by taking it when they could not provide sufficient care for it,
Dawn.

[Emm]

I think all recues you should be required to neuter the dog before it leaves the rescue centre. I know money is an issue but when some-one is allocated a dog they should before they take the dog home pay for the operation.

I know of some-one who just recently got a dog from The Dogs Trust and the dog isn't neutered and has had two accidental matings with free roaming males - I think luckily there is no pregnancy - but I thought an organisation like the Dogs Trust neutered all dogs before they left? obviously not.

O.T - I think males and females should all be neutered unless they are breeders dogs - my own males were done at 6 months old and for them it hasn't affected their coats they did put a bit of weight on but that has been managed now with a better diet.

[Ramble]

I think if a bitch hasn't been spayed beofre leaving Dogs Trust you get a voucher to get it done when the time is right???? I think anyway???

[logoes]

I have had two rescues, one a breed rescue and the other from a general animal rescue. I was never asked to have the first one neutered, nor did anyone come round to see if my home was suitable. The recent rescue I asked to be spayed before I had her, I couldn't do with all the males in the neighbourhood beating a pathway to the door. She was duly done and the Vet's fee to the Rescue was £25.00, if I had had her done at my Vet, who I do know very well and who has had a lot of my custom in the past,the fee would, I am sure, have been far more than £25.00. Needless to say the second Rescue got a much bigger donation from me than the Breed rescue. Incidentally I didn't have the first one castrated, we had an escape proof garden.

I did have a dog castrated because he had persistant cystitis, (it cured it, though why I have no idea) but he was finally put down because he had prostate cancer!!!!) and I had to have a spayed bitch put down when she had had so many mammery tumours I just couldn't put her through another operation. Logoes

[borderdawn]

I have had two rescues, one a breed rescue and the other from a general animal rescue. I was never asked to have the first one neutered, nor did anyone come round to see if my home was suitable. The recent rescue I asked to be spayed before I had her, I couldn't do with all the males in the neighbourhood beating a pathway to the door. She was duly done and the Vet's fee to the Rescue was £25.00, if I had had her done at my Vet, who I do know very well and who has had a lot of my custom in the past,the fee would, I am sure, have been far more than £25.00. Needless to say the second Rescue got a much bigger donation from me than the Breed rescue. Incidentally I didn't have the first one castrated, we had an escape proof garden.

I did have a dog castrated because he had persistant cystitis, (it cured it, though why I have no idea) but he was finally put down because he had prostate cancer!!!!) and I had to have a spayed bitch put down when she had had so many mammery tumours I just couldn't put her through another operation. Logoes
Thats another reason I hate Vets pushing male dog neutering saying it will prevent it, it doesnt. Sorry you lost him to it Logoes.

[Ramble]

Thats another reason I hate Vets pushing male dog neutering saying it will prevent it, it doesnt. Sorry you lost him to it Logoes.

Hi Dawn!!!! :)
But if it is done early enough it can help to prevent it. It also stops the dog suffering from prostate disease, which isn't at all pleasant for them.
*Steps back and waits*.....:-D

(Bet your glad I popped over here aren't ya?!!! :lol: :cool: )

[Booktigger]

I think all rescues should spay/neuter regardless of what kind of animal they are dealing wiht - the whole point in rescuing them is to give them a better chance and to help with the population issues, and allowing people to have entire animals isn't the way to do that. If I could convince the rescue I foster for and the vets we use, I would have all our kittens done at 8wo, there are other rescues in the area who do it (and two of the three deal with dogs too), it is the only 100% way of guaranteeing that none of the animals we deal with will contribute to the problem. We cant afford to chip or vacc, but the spaying cost is covered by us, and I am currently working on finding out the statistics of how successful that is, but looking at teh vet bills, a lot of them use it. I also think it should be done for male dogs as well as females - there are behavioural benefits for it as well as health.