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Kitty
28-02-2007, 12:52 AM
I was talking to someone today and i told them my cat was a month pregnant and she had bred with the neighbors tom the day i moved up to christchurch. i was going to get her speyed but after she got out and bred with him i didn't bother thinking about speying her till the kittens where 5weeks old, but this person told me this is irresponsible and theyre moggy kittens so i should take her to the vet now and spey her, she also told me some vets spey right up to labour! i was so shocked to hear this, i think it is wrong and cruel!:mad:

p.s i put this thread in Debates, i thought it might be a debatable subject.

dandysmom
28-02-2007, 03:32 AM
Some people do have strong feelings about having moggy litters; but I feel that's a personal choice and entirely up to you. If you're able to take care of the kittens and arrange for them to go to good homes (hopefully with a spay/neuter agreement!), then I'd let her pregnancy continue. But do have her spayed when it's time. Have you found a good vet in Christchurch? You might want to take her in for a checkup to see if everything is going well. Good luck, and let us know what you decide.

alexgirl73
28-02-2007, 09:06 AM
I know that this is a subject which raises a lot of emotions. For my 2p's worth, I think it is wrong to spey a cat who is already pregnant, unless there is a danger to the mums health. As long as you make sure that the kittens all have good homes and that they and mum will be speyed as soon as old enough. Good luck and as dandysmom said, find a good vet who can advise you better.

Rosie
28-02-2007, 10:20 AM
So baby moggies are less worthy than pedigree?:cry: I think once it is too late and the babies are on the way I would go ahead as long as they go to good homes. I personally think there are way too many cats and dogs being bred and would stop everybody from selling them for profit - if someone loves the breed that much they could just have one litter and find excellent homes for them, why should they need to charge. I know people who make a good living out of breeding and I think it is totally wrong but that is quite another debate!

charliebubs
28-02-2007, 02:57 PM
Kitty, my cat is pregnant too and it's the result of an accidental mating. She is a pedigree and I did consider for a split second having the kittens aborted. This was for health reasons though (see my other threads) and I discussed this at great length with my vet.
It is true that the kittens can be aborted and the womb removed right up to the time of birth, but I'm not sure how this would affect any creature psychologically and there is no research into that.
Alternatively, there are drugs that can be used to abort the kittens, but they induce labour too and would mean that the cat would have to pass (give birth) to something - whether or not it resembled a kitten would depend on the stage of the pregnancy.
It is an interesting debate and I do agree that there are far too many cats in rescue centres waiting to be rehomed, but I also think that once the cat is pregnant you should let nature take its course, find good homes for the babies and get mum neutered asap afterwards.
Good luck!!! :)

borderdawn
28-02-2007, 03:19 PM
Personally I would abort all accidental litters as they were not planned, therefore not ideal. Its how I feel, too many in rescue.
Dawn.

Kay
28-02-2007, 04:10 PM
As a breeder of Persians I have to disagree with your view that you make a profit. If it is done correctly and all your cats are looked after properly, that is studs, queens and neuters as well as the kittens you are lucky if you break even. I do it to try and improve the breed and I stick to all the GCCF rules and regulations. My kittens do not leave me till a minimum of 13 weeks, they have had all their vaccinations, are registered come with 6 weeks insurance and an extensive kitten pack. The kitten pack is a full starter pack I have put together consisting of food, 2 x stainless feed bowls, feeding mat, food storage tin, litter, litter tray and scoop, a blanket, toys, a book, a cat carrier and a specific booklet on the care of your Persian kitten that I have written. All my kittens are sold with a very strict contract that gives me the right to take back the kitten at any point if the contract is not adhered too and unfortunately I have had to do this on one occassion. If sold as a pet the contract states that the kitten must be neutered at 6 months of age and I do not let the paperwork go until I have got signed and stamped veterinary proof of this. My cats and kittens are fed on Royal Canin and not a cheap food. I keep an account book and I can assure you that my expenditure always outways any money I get from the sale of kittens. The pleasure I get from it is immense and I have made some lovely friends from the people that have bought my babies. I am still in touch with everyone that has a Tilsie baby and my help and advice is lifelong.
I do understand that there are breeders out there that do not treat there animals well and cut corners wherever, that do not follow the GCCF and sell unregistered kittens. These people probably do make a profit but genuine, responsible breeders do not.

So baby moggies are less worthy than pedigree?:cry: I think once it is too late and the babies are on the way I would go ahead as long as they go to good homes. I personally think there are way too many cats and dogs being bred and would stop everybody from selling them for profit - if someone loves the breed that much they could just have one litter and find excellent homes for them, why should they need to charge. I know people who make a good living out of breeding and I think it is totally wrong but that is quite another debate!

dinahsmum
28-02-2007, 05:04 PM
Could I just jump in here, before too much fur flies, and point out that the post was started by a very new member. I always think it's worth waiting a little while in such circumstances, to ensure we don't have the joy of a troll amongst us.

Rosie
28-02-2007, 05:06 PM
I don't wish to offend anyone about the cat/dog breeding thing it is just something I feel very strongly about. I was mostly involved with dogs and I do know several breeders who lived on their earnings. Litters were born in outhouses etc (also know cat breeders who do not rear kittens in their own homes).

If you pick up something like Loot anytime of the week there are several hundred adverts for litters of kittens/pups. I don't believe they all get good homes and yes there are some very respectable breeders but as long as people see a profit in breeding pets we are always going to be overrun. Cross breed puppies now bring as much as pure pedigrees. Something really has got to be done.

Elaine
28-02-2007, 08:50 PM
Personally I would abort all accidental litters as they were not planned, therefore not ideal. Its how I feel, too many in rescue.
Dawn.


Sorry, dont want to get into a fight over it but I am with Borderdawn on this one. Too many cats looking for homes and not enough homes to go round. Moggy and Pedigree.

Kazz
28-02-2007, 11:04 PM
Could I just jump in here, before too much fur flies, and point out that the post was started by a very new member. I always think it's worth waiting a little while in such circumstances, to ensure we don't have the joy of a troll amongst us.

Just reminding you all.....:)

borderdawn
28-02-2007, 11:07 PM
Far too many Elaine, its a disgrace. Tonight we have 3 lots of kittens and one adult cat for sale (mom to one of the kitten litters) One of the ads says "accidental" pregnancy, infuriates me, it really does. In the same pets column, there is FREE spaying and castration for all Cats in this area, (Cats protection) plus numbers for other areas too, there really is no excuse at all.

Luke
28-02-2007, 11:21 PM
My tuppence? I honestly could not say what i would do in that situation, therefore i will do all i can to prevent it from ever becoming in such *does snipping motion*
I honestly would not like to be in the position of an unplanned litter and having to decide whether to end new life before its either been given a chance or not, then again you have to view the fact of how many established lives are ended due to lack of homes:?
Eeesh not a good place to be!

Kazz
01-03-2007, 12:12 AM
I honestly would not like to be in the position of an unplanned litter and having to decide whether to end new life before its either been given a chance or not, then again you have to view the fact of how many established lives are ended due to lack of homes

Thats a good way of looking at it Luke, my choice would be to end a life before its begun, planned litters yes accidents unplanned no not for me. Spaying and neuturing is the only way forward.

Karen

Rosie
01-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Bit of a moral dilemma here. Is it purely the domain of pedigree breeders to flood the market with kittens? Are we saying here that basically all moggies should be spayed and not allowed to breed or if accidents happen they should be destroyed?

charliebubs
01-03-2007, 04:04 PM
Far too many Elaine, its a disgrace. Tonight we have 3 lots of kittens and one adult cat for sale (mom to one of the kitten litters) One of the ads says "accidental" pregnancy, infuriates me, it really does. In the same pets column, there is FREE spaying and castration for all Cats in this area, (Cats protection) plus numbers for other areas too, there really is no excuse at all.

I don't want to get into an arguement about this again, but I do have to say that accidents can and do happen. No matter how careful you are or how responsible.....tom cats can find a way!! :)

I thought I had done all I could to protect Lily from straying toms and spent a fortune on cat-proofing the garden to try and give them the best of both worlds, indoor and outdoor, but I have been caught out.

What I'm saying is that accidents happen and people shouldn't be judged for that.

The debate about moggies and pedigrees I'm not going to get involved in!! lol

We all have our own opinions and I respect that.

borderdawn
01-03-2007, 07:59 PM
I don't want to get into an arguement about this again, but I do have to say that accidents can and do happen. No matter how careful you are or how responsible.....tom cats can find a way!! :)

I thought I had done all I could to protect Lily from straying toms and spent a fortune on cat-proofing the garden to try and give them the best of both worlds, indoor and outdoor, but I have been caught out.

What I'm saying is that accidents happen and people shouldn't be judged for that.

The debate about moggies and pedigrees I'm not going to get involved in!! lol

We all have our own opinions and I respect that.
My post wasnt aimed at you Charlie, its just how I personally feel. :)

Animagus
01-03-2007, 08:13 PM
As I am also quite a new member and I dont' want to be drawn into a huge debate....

However Kitty I am sorry that you got caught out in this way... I feel that the choice is yours if you don't like the idea of putting your poor baby through an abortion and hysterectomy all at once and are quite willing to take care of her babies until you can rehome them to good families then you should go ahead.....

If you wish to stop her from having them because of the increase to the feline population then again that's what you should do....
Don't let yourself be bullied into making a choice by anyone.
In the long run its what your heart and concience allows you to choose for your baby.....

Good luck and my support in whatever you decide...

:smt102
Vive La Moggy!!!!! :pom


Wendy xx

Elaine
01-03-2007, 08:32 PM
Bit of a moral dilemma here. Is it purely the domain of pedigree breeders to flood the market with kittens? Are we saying here that basically all moggies should be spayed and not allowed to breed or if accidents happen they should be destroyed?

No I am not saying that as I feel the same way about Pedigrees as I do about Moggies.
Thats my personal feeling.

Kay
02-03-2007, 12:49 PM
Sorry, dont want to get into a fight over it but I am with Borderdawn on this one. Too many cats looking for homes and not enough homes to go round. Moggy and Pedigree.


If there are too many pedigree kittens and not enough good homes why do most responsible breeders have kitten waiting lists? I think the debate on moggy kittens is different though. Although I would not agree with abortion.

Elaine
02-03-2007, 12:56 PM
If there are too many pedigree kittens and not enough good homes why do most responsible breeders have kitten waiting lists? I think the debate on moggy kittens is different though. Although I would not agree with abortion.

That may well be but as we know there are more irresponsible breeders out there than there are responsible ones.

Kay
02-03-2007, 01:05 PM
That may well be but as we know there are more irresponsible breeders out there than there are responsible ones.


So as a responsible breeder I am to be punished for the irresponsible ones? That doesn't seem very fair.

charliebubs
02-03-2007, 01:10 PM
My post wasnt aimed at you Charlie, its just how I personally feel. :)

Thanks Dawn!!!! Phew!!!!!!!!!!

;)

For the record as well - I have homes lined up for 4 of Lily's kittens already.........if she has that many!! lol

And they are all going to friends where I can keep in touch with their progress and see them from time to time. :D

dinahsmum
02-03-2007, 01:14 PM
Could I just jump in here, before too much fur flies, and point out that the post was started by a very new member. I always think it's worth waiting a little while in such circumstances, to ensure we don't have the joy of a troll amongst us.

Once again may I point out that the originator of this thread (who has made only 3 posts on the forum, ever) has not returned to take part in the discussion.
The blue paper was lit and the poster has retired to watch the fireworks.
This topic has been covered before and people on either side of the debate will just maintain their own opinions (to which they are fully entitled, but from which they are unlikely to be persuaded)
Shall we call it a day?
DFTT

charliebubs
02-03-2007, 01:17 PM
Good idea DM!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Good job there's someone sensible on here!!! lol :)

dinahsmum
02-03-2007, 01:19 PM
Good idea DM!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Good job there's someone sensible on here!!! lol :)
Who's that then CB? :smt102

smudgley
02-03-2007, 01:26 PM
Dftt?...............

Elaine
02-03-2007, 01:27 PM
So as a responsible breeder I am to be punished for the irresponsible ones? That doesn't seem very fair.

Punished? I am simply stating how I feel and am entitled to that as much as anyone. I havent punnished or been nasty to any one.
Thats me I am done now as this would go round and round for all eternity.

dinahsmum
02-03-2007, 01:31 PM
DFTT
Don't feed the troll

charliebubs
02-03-2007, 01:35 PM
DFTT
Don't feed the troll

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I take back that "sensible" comment!!!!! You're as mad as the rest of us!!!!!!! lol :-D :-D :-D

Elaine
02-03-2007, 01:37 PM
I'd say she's madder LOL

Kay
02-03-2007, 05:15 PM
Punished? I am simply stating how I feel and am entitled to that as much as anyone. I havent punnished or been nasty to any one.
Thats me I am done now as this would go round and round for all eternity.


Sorry Elaine :oops: :oops: I tend to get very defensive about my breeding and go overboard. Am I forgiven :(

dandysmom
02-03-2007, 05:37 PM
I agree; let's retire this thread. People have reached their own opinions, and are unlikely to change their minds. Let's agree to disagree politely like the adults we are.

Elaine
02-03-2007, 06:34 PM
Sorry Elaine :oops: :oops: I tend to get very defensive about my breeding and go overboard. Am I forgiven :(

Ofcourse you are. I bear no malice towards any one;) :D

Mags
02-03-2007, 07:14 PM
I agree; let's retire this thread. People have reached their own opinions, and are unlikely to change their minds. Let's agree to disagree politely like the adults we are.
:smt038:smt038 :smt038

Here endeth the thread!