Teddie very bad again

[alexgirl73]

Smudgley suggested I start a thread here, re my post in the daily thread. I honestly don't know what to do anymore. Teddie has had very bad runs again all last night, though she has been runny for the last 2 weeks, and I've spent all morning cleaning up runny poo from my living room and kitchen. She is only having fish, so I've no idea of the cause of it all, as far as I know she hasn't picked up any other food stuff as I'm vigilant about that now. I'm having to ask myself what is the best thing for Teddie, and I'm wondering whether it would be best to give her up to someone who can afford to run all the tests she needs to find out the underlying caus of it all. I don't know what to feed her now, although I am starving her again today. She doesn't have any other symptoms apart from this chronic diarrhea, the previous tests the vet ran came back negative for parasitic causes and I'm just at my wits end. I haven't stopped crying all morning 'cause this is just breaking my heart.

[smudgley]

Did the pro-biotic help when you tried that before?

[Mags]

Have you been able to register with a PDSA vet yet Alex?

[dinahsmum]

Alex I'm so sorry to read this.:(
You have tried everything within your means haven't you. No-one would criticise you if you did determine to give Teddie up to a home where, maybe, further vet work could pinpoint the cause and find a treament. However, look at Porsha - had all the tests under the insurance and still nothing - like Teddie she is well or she is ill, with no apparent trigger.

This is a very wicked thought of mine, so I'll say it very faint. If Teddie went to a new home, and the new owner insured her, and stated that they did not know any previous history because Teddie was a stray who had just walked in on them, or even if she could be relocated quietly via a rescue, without giving them medical details, then, after the qualifying period, she would be insured and could be properly investigated. It would have to be a good insurer, as it might be a long lasting condition requiring ongoing treatment. At least they could take a gut biopsy when she was speyed, so that would be a bit cheaper.
Cough cough, did I say that? :roll:

Anyway Alex - my sympathy with you. Remember my daughter's cat was so bad I was almost pleading with her to give up and have him pts, for everyone's sake, so I'm certainly not thinking you should go on and on and on. You have your own health (sure stress doesn't help you) and your family to put in front of a cat, no matter how charming a cat.
Take care x

[reddaisy]

Hi Alex, as you can see I don't post very much but tend to lurk in the background!! But I just wanted to say that I've been following Teddie's progress throughout all the posts that have been made about her. I wish I could tell you something that would help. All I can say is that I'm thinking of you and the lovely Teddie.

[dinahsmum]

That's a nice post Reddaisy.

Alex - hope my last post wasn't too negative. It's difficult. :(

Anyway, by way of penance I've been doing a bit of research. Here's a link to homeopathic remedies http://www.caninecaregroup.net/dholistichealth.htm#STOMACH%20PROBLEMS

and here's a link to a whole site on feline diarrhoea. It's a US site, so I'm not sure how helpful it'll be
http://www.colonbowelproblems.com/feline-diarrhea.html ... mm, I've tried to go through it but it gets mixed up with human and feline. There's this product http://www.allergicpet.com/products/diarrhea_formula.html?source=GoogleDiarezeAdWord&gclid=CKfL8IXCyYoCFRO_XgodMX40dw but probably only available in the US - you'd need to speak nicely to Dandysmom.

Thinking of you x

[Elaine]

http://www.catclinic.co.uk/index.htm
They have a forum whereby you get advise from vets.

[alexgirl73]

Did the pro-biotic help when you tried that before?
Yes the pobiotic helped Smudgley, however when it was stopped the runs began again, and I was informed by the vet that using it long term wouldn't solve any underlying problem. When I used the powder probiotic, it didn't help at all.
Have you been able to register with a PDSA vet yet Alex?

I can't get her registered with the PDSA until she is well enough to pass a vet check:roll: Catch 22 situation. I did however email PDSA yesterday and I'm awaiting a response from them as to whether I could register her at the PDSA pet hospital in Wolverhampton. They don't usually let you if you are not in their catchment area, so will have to wait and see what they say
Hi Alex, as you can see I don't post very much but tend to lurk in the background!! But I just wanted to say that I've been following Teddie's progress throughout all the posts that have been made about her. I wish I could tell you something that would help. All I can say is that I'm thinking of you and the lovely Teddie.


Thank you very much Reddaisy. It's nice of you to post and follow Teddies progress.:)


DM. No, your post wasn't too harsh or anything, it is only what I have been thinking too. I have pulled myself together a bit after this morning, going to Church always helps me to be in a better frame of mind. Anyway, I have decided to do a round of the various vets in Telford tomorrow and try and find one that I feel will be able to help more than the one I am currently registered with. I'm hoping that I'll be able to find one with a better knowledge of cat problems. I'm also going to try her on chicken tomorrow instead of the fish, not exactly going to do any more harm at this point. I will also enquire to the cost of testing for IBS etc and whether this could be the actual problem.

Thank you all once again for your support for my little angel. I honestly don't know whether I could bear to see her go elsewhere, and whether I'm being selfish if I do keep her. I will keep you all informed of her progress. xx

[alexgirl73]

Oh, and Elaine thank you for that link. I'll check it out.

[Fran]

{{{Hugs}}} Alex, did your vet mention how difficult it is to pick up certain parasites in stool samples? Often many samples need to be sent. Just because Teddie had a negative test doesn't mean there aren't any parasites. Just a thought as it really could be something a simple as this. How did she respond when she had the Metronidazole?

[alexgirl73]

{{{Hugs}}} Alex, did your vet mention how difficult it is to pick up certain parasites in stool samples? Often many samples need to be sent. Just because Teddie had a negative test doesn't mean there aren't any parasites. Just a thought as it really could be something a simple as this. How did she respond when she had the Metronidazole?

When she was on the metronidazole and the promax paste, she actually had a good few weeks Fran, but as soon as they both stopped, the runs started again. The vet didn't mention putting her on anything more, tbh I get the feeling that because I don't have the money to do test after test, he's not interested in Teddie at all, which is why I have now developed a great deal of dislike for vets as a whole. I think that the vast majority of them are money grabbes and have no real interest in the welfare of the animals they are treating. I've spent well over £300 on her since I brought her home, the vet has given me 2 different types of medication on more than one occasion that do the same thing. We are no nearer to knowing what the problem is, and I don't have any more money available to me to go the bloody vets! I'm struggling like crazy because I've used money on Teddie that should have paid bills, yet these people won't let me have an acount where I can pay money up every week. I would think that my commitment to Teddie and getting her sorted would count for something, but no!! Sorry to rant on again, but my blood boils when I think of that vet now:twisted:

[Fran]

:( I asked because as you know Porsha has responded so well to Metronidazole and my vet thought it was well worth keeping her on an extended course of it. So she will have had about two weeks worth all in all when she's done and she is brilliant, I have never had so many days of normal ppos from Porsha since I got her. Could you try a different vets that would allow you to have an account?

[alexgirl73]

I phoned around a few vets when I first got Teddie. None of them do accounts because of so many people not paying. Teddie had 3 weeks of the metronidazole, and as I said, when she was on it things were great, but off of it, it all started again.

[Kim]

I am so sorry to read of Teddie's problems again Alex. I know how much you love her and have done all within your means to help her. ((hugs))

[smudgley]

Alex - I don't know which vets you are using but PAH always seem to be extremely good in my experience. I wonder if you'd tried them (on the retail park)

[alexgirl73]

I've used them in the past Smudgley, with my dog Tia, but tbh I find them one of the most expensive vets out there!

[catsinc4]

sorry to hear it all but ive never had to pass a vet check to register with the pdsa??ive just made an appointment turned up with my appropriate paper work and pet and thats it.i wouldnt tell them you have previous tests done etc.just that its been going on for a few weeks now.i had that with lena she had a cold virus thing but it gave her the runs she was on 3 lots of antibiotics re wormed and they said if it didnt clear up she had to come in for tests.like you said vets are often in it for the money at least pdsa arent in it for that!!they are in fairness very very good.we have a budget vets just opened here too but not sure on their costs there is also an rspca hospital closish they charge you £12 to walk in the door tho

[alexgirl73]

The vets round here charge £12 for a vet check before they will take you on as a PDSA client, and then you also have to send the £3 away to register with PDSA (which takes up to 6 weeks), which strikes me as crazy when Telford is where their head office is!!! I won't tell them about how long it has been going on, though I do think they'll get suspicious when they see how small Teddie is for her age, but with the state her back end is in, and has been for some time, there is no way a vet will pass her check.

[Kazz]

Is there a budget vets by you Alex?

[alexgirl73]

Not as far as I know Kazz! Never heard of anyone talking about one.

[dandysmom]

That's a nice post Reddaisy.

Alex - hope my last post wasn't too negative. It's difficult. :(

Anyway, by way of penance I've been doing a bit of research. Here's a link to homeopathic remedies http://www.caninecaregroup.net/dholistichealth.htm#STOMACH%20PROBLEMS (http://www.caninecaregroup.net/dholistichealth.htm#STOMACH%20PROBLEMS)

and here's a link to a whole site on feline diarrhoea. It's a US site, so I'm not sure how helpful it'll be
http://www.colonbowelproblems.com/feline-diarrhea.html ... mm, I've tried to go through it but it gets mixed up with human and feline. There's this product http://www.allergicpet.com/products/diarrhea_formula.html?source=GoogleDiarezeAdWord&gclid=CKfL8IXCyYoCFRO_XgodMX40dw but probably only available in the US - you'd need to speak nicely to Dandysmom.

Thinking of you xAlex, I'd be glad to order anything for you and Teddie, and re-ship it if they don't do overseas orders,,,just let me know!! No problem at all! Edited to say I saw this site some time back when researching chronic feline diarrhea, and almost ordered it for you; but didn't want to be pushy...it sounds to me as if it would be well worth a try...let me know if you'd like some; certainly couldn't hurt to give it a try; anything to help poor sweet Teddie!

[catsinc4]

well that is weird?is it the pdsa pet aid centre or a regular vet that takes on pdsa work?or maybe it is something that theyre doing in other areas.so that would mean you couldnt go there as an e,mergancy if you hadnt already registered then hmmmmmmm defff not the way it is here i know that ive seen people turn up and register there and then.it is a big shame that ,that is their policy in your area then isnt it:(

[charliebubs]

Oh Alex, I've just caught up with this thread and I'm so sorry to hear that Teddie is so unwell again.

I know that you love her and that you have done everything that you can to help her and I'm sure she really appreciates that :). Nobody is going to think badly of you if you do take the decision to rehome her.

I wish I could wave a magic wand for you and make it all okay.

Lots of love and hugs coming your way and for Teddie too, and well done for looking after her and loving her as much as you have done despite her pooy bottom.

Take care
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[catsinc4]

ok ive just checked the website it does look like your just very unlucky in where you live that there isnt a pet aid hospital nearby i can see from the site that you have to register in advance etc as its a pet aid practice and only for 1 pet!im sorry for you both:(

[Moli]

Sorry to hear Teddie is bad again, poor little girl, she doesn't get much of a break from it.....Hope she improves soon....

[tilly]

Hi Alex
sorry to hear that Teddie is bad again.
Two thing have you got a pets at home near you as they have a vet which are cheaper and also Teddie may have Inflamatory bowel disease which is what Tilly probably has. It can cause constant vommiting or diarrhoea. Also my vets said that fish can be salty and can irritate so the chicken might work better. Also have you tried sensitivity contorl pet food from the vets as I have got some that I don't think Tilly can have so I don't mind sending you a few pouches to try. I will let you know what food tilly is on when she come home as that might work better for Teddie as it has to be very bland from what I understand.
http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/ibd.html

Hope Teddie and you are holding out OK.

((hugs)) to both of you.

I might hear more from the vet tomorrow and will pass on anything I know about Inflammartory Bowel Disease if you think that might help you.

Sally

[alexgirl73]

Hi Alex
sorry to hear that Teddie is bad again.
Two thing have you got a pets at home near you as they have a vet which are cheaper and also Teddie may have Inflamatory bowel disease which is what Tilly probably has. It can cause constant vommiting or diarrhoea. Also my vets said that fish can be salty and can irritate so the chicken might work better. Also have you tried sensitivity contorl pet food from the vets as I have got some that I don't think Tilly can have so I don't mind sending you a few pouches to try. I will let you know what food tilly is on when she come home as that might work better for Teddie as it has to be very bland from what I understand.
http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/ibd.html

Hope Teddie and you are holding out OK.

((hugs)) to both of you.

I might hear more from the vet tomorrow and will pass on anything I know about Inflammartory Bowel Disease if you think that might help you.

Sally


Sally that would be great if you can pass on info from the vets to me. My vets are pathetic tbh:evil: . I didn't know about the fish being an irritant, so will try her with chicken tomorrow, although when that has been tried in the past it wasn't a great success:roll: . As I said about the PAH vet, the one near me is more expensive than the vet I currently use (and that's saying something). She has been on the hills i.d sensitivity food before, which did help her somewhat, but my vet (yet again:roll: ) said that she couldn't remain on that long term, so I would be very interested to see what food your vet puts Tilly on.

As for how we are doing. Well, I've been up and down all day, Teddie is looking very sorry for herself and screaming at me for food every time I step foot in the kitchen:? , and she just keeps dripping out of her poor wee botty.

Thanks all for your various words of wisdom, and thanks catsinc for trying with the PDSA thing. xxxxx

[tilly]

I will PM you with any information I can get.

Sally

[EmmaG]

Hi Alex,

Sorry to hear Teddie is still having problems.

However have a read of this thread I think something is coming very much to light. I do not think you will get the answer going to a "cheap" vets, what you need to do is to a the "best" vet in your area.

Cheap vets only exist because they can do a high turnaround of cheap(ish) treatments, i.e. wormers, vaccines etc. I really think that you will be going down the wrong path by going to this type of vets. Know I know some are going to be good but they are going to be the exception rather than the norm I think.

Alex - irrespective of cost, who do you consider to be the best vets in your area??

[alexgirl73]

Tbh Emma, I've no idea! I've spoken to a few of my friends over the last few weeks, and not one of them would recommend the vet they use or some of the others they have tried. I honestly thought that the practice I registered my 3 with would be great. It was a brand new practice, very modern, clean and up to date equipment, but the actual vet is very cold, not very sympathetic (remember after our 3rd visit he talked about having Teddie pts!!!) and not very knowledgable imo! The vets where I had the boys neutered didn't impress me much either, the staff didn't seem to have much time for clients and kept stopping to speak to other people when taling to someone else. Companion care (which is the PAH surgery) are very unapproachable. The woman on the desk looks at you like dirt, the vets try to palm all sorts off on you, 'do you need flea spray, it only costs £????' etc, and are trying to practically shove you out the door to get the next client in. So I don't know who to go to. I know cheapest isn't always best, but with the experiences I've had (with the dog I had too, she had a cut pad that was going septic before we noticed it, and the vets refused point blank to treat her until we had the £100 for surgery), money came before the animal! I've had no recommendations from anyone as to who to go to, and I don't want to try vet after vet, as that is just throwing consultancy money away.

[Fran]

Alex, why don't you give the RCVS a ring? Explain everything to them and they may be able to offer advice and may certainly be able to recommend a reputable vet in your area


http://www.rcvs.org.uk/

[alexgirl73]

Thanks Fran. Just had a quick look there, my current vets is one of their 'accredited practices', lol!! Will give them a ring tomorrow though and see what they say.

[Elaine]

Alex, I remember when my old boy Winston was still around. I changed vets twice. The third vet I went to and have stuck with was very knowledgable on Winstons condition, very informative and willing to listen to me which is important because I knew him better than any one and I was his voice.
Maybe call around vets in your area. Take some notes or write down the questions you want to ask. The one that sounds the most informative and sympathetic is the one I would go to for another consult on Teddie. Go with your gut feelings. Dont be afraid to ask them questions.
Let us know how you get on chum, we are all here for you. xxx

[alexgirl73]

Thanks Elaine, I will. I'm just afraid of going to these vets and their eyes lighting up with pound signs!! 'oooh here's someone we can make a load of money off'.

[Elaine]

I know Alex, I felt the same. Arm yourself to the back teeth with all the questions you want answered.
From what they can do for her currently to what they would be prepared to do for her.
And do read as many links as you can about different possibilities so that you are not jumping in blind, if you know what I mean.

[Elaine]

You could even bring up the possibilities of pancreatitis, IBS etc and explain to them that you have already had a lot of different anti biotics etc which havent resolved the situation and in some instances made it worse.
Which ever vet you decide on can ask your vet for all Teddies notes, and they will see for themselves what has been tried and tested.
All the very best xxx

[alexgirl73]

I've read so many links today my head is swimming with info Elaine, lol! I am now leaning towards the IBS way of thinking, perhaps pancreatitis, but will have to wait and see.

[yola]

Alex - remember, you are the client/customer here. I think Elaine's right about putting together a list and actually saying that you are looking for the best possible vet care for your cat and would they please answer you concerning their experience of cats with stomach/bowel problems.

Emma too, is right. You could end up throwing lots more money at 2nd rate vets and still not have a solution, yet a good vet may cost more but may solve Teddie's problem sooner rather than later.

I know you're between a rock and a hard place with this at the moment. I wish there was some practical and helpful advice I could offer but it don't have any experience of the problems you're going through with Teddie.

All I can say is that your dedication and love for Teddie is quite inspirational and to be admired.

Hugs for you both {{{}}}

[Elaine]

Again Alex, I know and understand how that all feels. I was exactly the same with the whole CRF stuff. But its amazing just how much info your brain can hold.

[alexgirl73]

Thanks Yola x

[Kazz]

I have no advice other than to say I changed vets after many years, they are oddly enough no more expensive than the vets I was with before however THEY CARE. I have never had a problem at all everyone from the receptionist to the vets are nice and helpful and I think knowledgable although if they don't know they are wiling to listen and find out.

No idea what to suggest but my old Stafford bitch Gyp had IBS, once we hit on the right diet we were away but she was about 13-14 when she was diagnosed not a pup or kitten like Teddy is.

The key is regardless of the cheapest or most expensive vets in the area is a vet who you believe LISTENS to you and you can build a trust with,

Karen

[tilly]

Just having a look on the hills web site and I thought I would post the diet for sensitive diets.
the below link is for d/d
http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details_eu.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455244 41781976&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474395183417&bmUID=1172436900194&bmLocale=en_GB

Feline i/d™

For the Nutritional Management of Cats with Gastrointestinal Disorders Gastrointestinal (GI) disorders affect both the stomach and intestines, creating painful symptoms that can have an impact on your cat’s overall health. The most common symptoms associated with GI disorders are vomiting, regurgitation, flatulence, weakness, diarrhea or constipation. Prescription Diet™ Feline i/d™ is a highly digestible formula created specifically to help manage cats with GI disorders. There are several types of GI disorders that affect cats, including colitis, constipation/diarrhea, gastroenteritis and pancreatitis.

Feline z/d™ Low Allergen

For the Nutritional Management of Cats with Food Allergy and Intolerance Food allergy and intolerance, also called adverse reactions to food, can cause serious skin and stomach problems in your cat. This condition is usually an abnormal response to a specific protein in food. Prescription Diet* Feline z/d* Low Allergen has an exclusive ingredient called Hill’s Hydrolyzed Protein System*, a process that eliminates animal intact proteins and significantly reduces the possibility of an adverse reaction to food. For cats, most allergic reactions occur as a result of beef, dairy products and fish. Feline z/d* Low Allergen eliminates these.

The below link has got a kitten feeding guide on it so it must be OK for kittens
http://www.walthamusa.com/Learning%20Center/HP23-dry.html
anoter walthams diet
http://www.walthamusa.com/Learning%20Center/RD30-dry.html
nopt sure if any of the above will be any good I thought I would look to see what Tilly might be allowed and to see if there was any canned sensitive food as she likes that more.


Sally

[Fran]

and to see if there was any canned sensitive food as she likes that more.
Sally

Sorry for diversing here Alex just wanted to let Sally know that Royal Canin do a sensitive diet (wet diet) in pouches. Don't know if you have tried it Sally but Porsha tolerates it well and very much enjoys it

[tilly]

Sorry for diversing here Alex just wanted to let Sally know that Royal Canin do a sensitive diet (wet diet) in pouches. Don't know if you have tried it Sally but Porsha tolerates it well and very much enjoys it
Thanks I will see what my vet recommends.

Alex below is a link with another owner who sound like she had similair problem to you. There are also recipes for making cat food on there
http://www.catnutrition.org/

Sally

[borderdawn]

I use a good vet Alex, he now has 5 practices, Walsall, Brownhills, Lichfield, Darlaston and another in Walsall. I can reccommend them fully, if you want details let me know.
Dawn,

[alexgirl73]

Thanks I will see what my vet recommends.

Alex below is a link with another owner who sound like she had similair problem to you. There are also recipes for making cat food on there
http://www.catnutrition.org/

Sally

I have spent the last half hour looking at that site funnily enough Sally:D . It intrigues me the idea of doing a raw diet with her, and that website is very informative. I just wonder where I would get half of the ingredients from:? . It's certainly something to consider though.
I use a good vet Alex, he now has 5 practices, Walsall, Brownhills, Lichfield, Darlaston and another in Walsall. I can reccommend them fully, if you want details let me know.
Dawn,

Thanks Dawn. If I don't have any luck tomorrow I will contact you for details. I don't mind in the slightest having to do a bit of travelling if I could finally find a vet I like (and I'm not that fussy, honest)!

[Kazz]

See I think thats what you need a vet you have a little faith on or recomended by someone you know who wouldn't stand any rubbish ie Dawn, Smudgley :)

May be the way to go.
Karen

[Fran]

It intrigues me the idea of doing a raw diet with her!

I might be putting a dampner in here but as much as I raw feed my dogs and part raw feed my cats and as much as Porsha loves the raw diet it doesn't really agree with her I have to be very careful :?

[alexgirl73]

Ah! I hadn't realised that you gave your cats raw food Fran. Where do you buy your raw granule supplement thingy from or do you use a different recipe that doesn't need it?

[Fran]

Ah! I hadn't realised that you gave your cats raw food Fran. Where do you buy your raw granule supplement thingy from or do you use a different recipe that doesn't need it?


I don't feed a granule supplement Alex. My cats are only part raw fed so I feel they get enough of what they need from the cat food that they also have. My dogs have all sorts of supplements including alfalfa, kelp, salmon oil, nettle etc etc...

I love the raw diet and really think it is the best you can give your pets but I have to restrict Porsha, she just doesn't seem able to tolerate it very well at all

[alexgirl73]

Hmmm, I'll put that on the back burner for now then, but keep it in mind. Thanks Fran.

[Fran]

Hmmm, I'll put that on the back burner for now then, but keep it in mind. Thanks Fran.


It might not be the same for Teddie Alex but I just thought I would let you know how Porsha is with it. You've tried everything else so it might be worth giving it a go??

[Kazz]

Maybe we need to concentrate on whats made a difference to teddy good or bad?

What food has made her well - regardless of what the vets says about long term surely any nutrients/feed she keeps in her is doing her good.

What food do you know made her bad immediately?

Karen

[dandysmom]

Very good point, Kazz! Wasn't turkey one of the things that set her off?

[smudgley]

Good thinking... & if the probiotics got her sorted last time, is it worth trying them again (even in the short term) I'll provide the promax. ;) Or whichever one you prefer.

[Kazz]

See what makes her well is what we need to know.

Then when we find it STAY with it for a few months, say 3 months to build her up.
There is no point trying to introduce something that may make her worse, we need to establish good bacteria in her stomach to fight - as DM said her daughters cat just got better maybe strength and age have something to do with it.

I would happily provide the money for a diet that suits her - first we need to know what it is? Forget what the vets said any food is good food as long as you keep it down.

Thats what I worked on with Oscar - the books vets etc said he needed special food he wouldn't eat it so I reverted to what he liked and it worked he was healthier than cats half his age and without CRF. Why because he ate something and kept it down.

Karen


Edited as I put to many Karen's at the end soz :)

[alexgirl73]

Thank you all for trying so hard with Teddie. Right, the hills id worked well with her, but that is a subscription only food, and as we all know my current vet didn't want to have her on that for any length of time as he says it doesn't have enough nutrition (and fish does???). She was doing ok on the fish, but now that is upsetting her too. The promax was great, but again no by my vet for long term use (is a picture developing here?), also metronidazole helped, but no suggestion of using it again from you know who! Any type of processed cat food sets her off very badly as did turkey. She has had chicken in the past with mixed results, but at that time I was feeding it with rice (which seems to be another trigger), and I'm going to try her on chicken today on its own, boiled. She hasn't had anything to eat now for 36 hours (poor baby), so her stomach is completely empty and hopefully any irritation has settled down. I will let you know how we get on with that. xx

[Sweet]

I am catching up again ........

So sorry to read this, ((((((hugs)))))) x

[Fran]

Alex, although it says that it is a Vetinerary Prescription diet, I am under the impression that that is just the name of it and you can buy it over the counter and don't need a prescription for it.

Have a look on here


http://www.bestpetpharmacy.co.uk/search_results.asp?search_type=free_any&search=HILL&gclid=CMTOirnQy4oCFThhMAodPmNNcA

[dinahsmum]

Or here Alex
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=62_66_101&zenid=dd46639afdb6b7757ccc458b3d01d520
You can buy 'vet diet' without prescription. I got some of Min's renal diet on line, tho it wasn't much of a price difference.

Edit
I think I've posted this blurb before - it says that the i/d is a complete food and says nothing about not feedong it long-term

Hills prescription diet feline i/d is a highly digestible formula created specifically to help manage cats with GI disorders. There are several types of GI disorders that affect cats', including: colitis, constipation/diarrhoea, gastroenteritis and pancreatitis.

Hills prescription feline i/d indications:
• Gastrointestinal disorders: gastritis, enteritis, colitis, inflammatory bowel disease (i.e. most causes of diarrhoea).
• Recovery from gastrointestinal surgery.
• Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency.
• Acute pancreatitis, without hyperlipidaemia.
• Recovery from minor surgical procedures and mildly debilitating conditions.
• Complete for kittens.

Hills prescription feline i/d not recommended for:
Cats with sodium retention.

Hills diet feline i/d additional information:
Provides complete balanced nutrition for growing kittens as well as adult cats.

[yola]

I think that shows fairly catagorically that your vet is either taking the mick or doesn't know what he's talking about.

Do you think you should print it off and show your vet; basically challenge him to support what he is telling you in light of this contradictory evidence??

[Kazz]

Or here Alex
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=62_66_101&zenid=dd46639afdb6b7757ccc458b3d01d520
You can buy 'vet diet' without prescription. I got some of Min's renal diet on line, tho it wasn't much of a price difference.

Edit
I think I've posted this blurb before - it says that the i/d is a complete food and says nothing about not feedong it long-term

Hills prescription diet feline i/d is a highly digestible formula created specifically to help manage cats with GI disorders. There are several types of GI disorders that affect cats', including: colitis, constipation/diarrhoea, gastroenteritis and pancreatitis.

Hills prescription feline i/d indications:
• Gastrointestinal disorders: gastritis, enteritis, colitis, inflammatory bowel disease (i.e. most causes of diarrhoea).
• Recovery from gastrointestinal surgery.
• Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency.
• Acute pancreatitis, without hyperlipidaemia.
• Recovery from minor surgical procedures and mildly debilitating conditions.
• Complete for kittens.

Hills prescription feline i/d not recommended for:
Cats with sodium retention.

Hills diet feline i/d additional information:
Provides complete balanced nutrition for growing kittens as well as adult cats.




Thats what I have just read too DM, nothing about not being long term at all, so how about going back to that with the probatic or whatever?

Howabout forget the vet and move on with the Hill's and thense what happens after a month of feeding just that. If nothing else your heart rate and breathing will have calmed down if she is going well.

[dinahsmum]

Dr Kazz
I think that sounds like as good a course of action as any. Certainly as good as any advice the vets have given Alex
Dr DM :roll:

[alexgirl73]

LOL @ drs Kazz and DM!!

I have come to the conlusion that my vet is a waste of space and knows nothing about cats!! (and they had the cheek to send me a text to remind me that Teddie and Cooper are due to be wormed. Already been done)

She has had no runs during the night, but obviously her tummy is completely empty. I've just given her some lightly boiled minced chicken which I got from the butchers, so hopefully nice and fresh. She gobbled it down, bless her! So we'll see how her tummy reacts to that over the next few days, and then try introducing the hills! Haven't had a chance to phone around vets yet as I've had to run OH around this morning to docs, and chemists etc. Will do very soon. Thanks all. xxxx

[charliebubs]

I agree with the others Alex - stick to what you know she likes (and likes her!) and forget about what your stupid vet says!!!

When I worked at Wood Green we had cats on prescription diets long term and some were rehomed on those diets, with no mention of it being bad long term.

I hope she manages to keep the chicken down okay. :)

Keep us posted. Hugs to you both (((( ))))
Charlie
xx

[Mags]

The Catsey 'docs' have given good advice Alex, I do think it is worth a try .......
good luck! :D
((((hugs))))

[dandysmom]

I agree with the above good advice! Let us know how she does with the chicken!

[alexgirl73]

Well, got a message from the PDSA. The usual, we don't have a hospital in your area blah blah, but you can use a petaid practice. I rang round the ones they gave me and managed to find one that doesn't charge for a vet check, so if I can manage to get her stable with no runs, then hopefully I can get her registered with them. Here's hoping!!

[dandysmom]

Oh, good news, Alex! Fingers crossed that it will turn out OK!

[catsinc4]

oh i do hope you have some luck with it all alex!

[tilly]

Hi Alex
Tilly is back and they have said to me to feed her on hypoallegenic diets. She is on walthams sensitivity conrtol at the moment both biscuits and the pouches. But the vet has said to me that she can have the d/d, i/d or z/d and the walthams hypoallengenic diet and they also said that they think hills do a hypoallegenic diet. Anyway they also said that if the she can eat the diet and not be sick then to keep her on the diet/s forever. So I think that if Teddie will eat any of the above diets and they don't cause her diarrhoea then she can stay on them forever too. My vets have given me a small sample bag of biscuits they were feeding her whilst she was staying there to see if she will eat them. If I get any large bags of the above diets I don't mind sending you a sample to try Teddie on, but at the moment I am going to see what Tilly will eat.

Hope you are OK and Teddie has managed eat some chicken

Sally

[alexgirl73]

Thanks very much for that Sally! Teddie has wolfed down both lots of chicken I have given her, her appetite has never been in question lol!! I am going to try her on the hills and have some biscuits coming so we will see how she goes on them. She hasn't had biscuits for months, so this will be a great experience for her, something crunchy lol. I'm glad Tilly is home and I have everything crossed that this diet will work with her.
Alex xx

[Elaine]

Ok, just catching up here and now about to stick my big oar in where it may not be wanted:lol: .
I whole heartedly agree with sticking to what works for Teddie and di=ont understand your vet at all with regards to the prescription diets. They are all complete foods but designed to help with specific health issues.
Anyway, my worry is...............
when Teddie is well and eating with no runny bum, thats fine but I do worry about when the runs start and she is being starved. Now I kknow and understand full well why this has been done but seriously worry about it being done too often. As alot of you know Hepatic Lipidosis(liver failure) can set in fairly quickly and although our dear sweet Teddie has a lust for food, which is good, what damage is being done to her liver by these frequent bouts of runs and starvation?
I am no vet so maybe I am wrong to worry but none the less i do as it may have some bearing on any future outcome for her.
So now I have successfully put a dampner on things, here's what I think. Go ahead and feed her what agrees with her, I cannt see how probiotics and prescription food would harm her at all but please do find the time to call round some vets to discuss her current situation and find a decent vet. They can be expensive but may work out cheaper in the grand scheme of things.
Wishing you both all the very best as always. xxx

[alexgirl73]

Thanks for that Elaine, I didn't know about the liver failure thing. What do I do then when she has the runs? Continue feeding her and hope her tummy will settle on its own? I'm now more confused than ever. Let's just hope this chicken helps her (though her tummy is sounding very bubbly).

[Kazz]

No don't give up up the vets just try too stabilise her then go to the vets when all has calmed down not the least Alex.
a

[Elaine]

Sorry Alex, didnt mean to confuse the issue. I think you are doing a grand job and am not critisising.
I think you should feed her what agrees with her and keeps her tummy settled but I do think you should change vets because should her tummy get upset again........ it cannt be good for her to be frequently starved especially as she is so young.

[dandysmom]

Alex, I can understand your confusion; there are so many aspects of this problem to consider...I didn't know about the liver until Elaine mentioned it! One more thing to worry about .......poor Teddie and her bubbly stomach (((hugs)))

[alexgirl73]

The chicken hasn't worked, she now has the runs again.

[Kazz]

Can anyone hear that its me smacking my head against the wall

[Fran]

Oh Alex, I know there is the vet issue but it sounds to me like she does need some antibiotics, Porsha was exactly the same, noisy guts and everything running through her and I know my vet did not want Porsha starving. I had to keep feeding her throughout. You have had so much conflicting advice, you must do what you feel is right but she really cannot be starved for ever and we are not vets on here and I am worried that teddie really needs professional help. {{{Hugs}}} x

[tilly]

Sorry to hear that I am not sure what to suggest apart fomr trying the prescription diet again as whether it is ideal long term or not any food that doesn't cause diarrhoea is better than one that does.

I would love to say that the sensitity control work great for cats with IBD but Tilly is sulking and not eating!! Anything I find that works I will tell you.

Mean time a big hugs for you

Sally

[Kazz]

Did you ring round the vets Alex? or ask Dawn about her vets - I am so sorry she is poorly again.

Fran what did your vet do??

[Kazz]

Its frustrating from my end no wonder you are getting so upset

[alexgirl73]

I will keep feeding her the chicken until I can get her to the vets. I will phone the vets tomorrow and ask about having the metronidazole prescribed for her again, and see if that can help clear things up.

[alexgirl73]

I didn't have much of a chance today Kazz to ring vets, things kind of fell apart here. I did phone a couple of the PDSA petaid practices, but all of them will only register her with them after a vet check, and only one doesn't charge for that.

I know that many people on the board will be annoyed with me because I can't take Teddie to the vet when she's like this, but I simply can't afford to! I have spent much more than I've been able to afford on her up to now, and we're no nearer any sort of diagnosis. I can't get insurance on her either, I can't get her registered with the PDSA because of this bloody vet check system, and there isn't one of their hospitals in this area which I could just walk into if I was elsewhere. And I know there are those who are thinking, well, if you cant afford vet fees then don't have pets. I have always had my pets looked after by vets and managed to have them treated, but Teddie is a different matter. I had no idea that this was going to occur! I'm very upset right now because I feel like I'm failing her, I dont want to give her up, tbh i dont think I could, but I have no idea what to do anymore. I'm sorry for ranting on.

[EmmaG]

Alex I would continue to feed her the chicken, give her tummy a chance to settle itself down again, I think by keep swapping her food all the time and then starving her isn't really working. Giver her tummy a CHANCE to get use to the chicken, which could mean weeks rather than days/hours. I could understand if processed tinned food (even for a special diet) would upset her but surely chicken should be ok??

How is she in herself today? does she seem quite bright?

Hugs to you Alex, I know you are finding this very difficult.

[alexgirl73]

She has been quite bright most of the day actually! Carrying on round my feet everytime I went into the kitchen, begging for food. I didn't give her the chicken all at once, I spread it out throughout the day in the hope she could process it better. When I spoke to the butcher this morning he said all his cats were fed their food raw, but I did cook Teddies!

[EmmaG]

I would do the same Alex and cook the chicken for Teddie.

Good to hear she is still quite bright.

[Fran]

Fran what did your vet do??

Well, it was a little different with Porsha because she became dehydrated and very unwell so she was taken in to be hydrated on a drip. She was fed the Royal Canin sensitive pouches and dry food because Hills doesn't suit Porsha (what suits one doesn't necessarily suit another) and she was given antibiotics, promax, pain killers for the stomach cramps, something for the gas in her tummy and stool samples and blood tests were taken. All the tests were negative but my vet felt sure it was a reoccurance of the Giardia even though it didn't show up in the tests as it can be difficult to find often. So she decided to put her on Metronidazole an antibiotic as it is the best one apparantly for problems of this nature and it has some agent in it which helps sooth the inflammed guts and we haven't looked back since, touch wood. My vet feels Porsha isn't food intolerant but she says long term inflammed gut problems could make her food intolerant in the future so she was keen to settle her bowels asap

I really feel for you Alex, I have been there feeling that despair that you feel right now. I guess I'm lucky that Porsha is insured so cost isn't an issue and even if it was my vets would accept a payment plan. I also get a substantial discount with having so many pets registered with them so that help too. I really hope you can find an answer for Teddie. I can never rest with Porsha, it's like I'm waiting for the next 'attack' :(

[alexgirl73]

If I could find a vet willing to do a payment plan I would have them run everytest going on her.

[smudgley]

Right!

Can I make a totally random / bizarre suggestion?

here's my suggestion.....

What causes diarrhoea? We are all assuming it's dietary? right? Well most of the time it is.... BUT not always. diarrhoea can be caused for others reasons. a key factor in diarrhoea is often stress, or change of environment, parasites, & so on....I know Teddie does not appear stressed, but maybe there is a tiny little thing (no idea what) but something that is causing her to have diarrhoea. Therefore would you consider putting her in a change of environment for 1 week? Let her come stay with me for 1 week? New environment, with no other cats, see what happens & it will give you a break? She would obviously stay in a pen & you may not like that idea, but it may answer some q's???

What do you think Alex?

[Kazz]

Alex I have nothing but admiration for you, doing the best you can no animal can wish for more.

This is off track slightly - but I would happily let Cleo come and live with you.
I can say no more, and hope that says enough to you.

I realise you have a life to lead children to feed and bills to pay no one is critising you in any way you have done more than enough.

I have Pm'd you.

Karen

[EmmaG]

Excellent idea there Smudgley :)

[Kazz]

Right!

Can I make a totally random / bizarre suggestion?

here's my suggestion.....

What causes diarrhoea? We are all assuming it's dietary? right? Well most of the time it is.... BUT not always. diarrhoea can be caused for others reasons. a key factor in diarrhoea is often stress, or change of environment, parasites, & so on....I know Teddie does not appear stressed, but maybe there is a tiny little thing (no idea what) but something that is causing her to have diarrhoea. Therefore would you consider putting her in a change of environment for 1 week? Let her come stay with me for 1 week? New environment, with no other cats, see what happens & it will give you a break? She would obviously stay in a pen & you may not like that idea, but it may answer some q's???

What do you think Alex?


You know with the brains on here its lucky for the World we don't break out and take over.:-D

[Fran]

I think that's a very kind offer Smudgley, I hope Alex takes you up on it. I would be more than happy to let any of my cats stay with you and I do think Alex could do with a break and it might put a different perspective on Teddie's problems

[alexgirl73]

Right!

Can I make a totally random / bizarre suggestion?

here's my suggestion.....

What causes diarrhoea? We are all assuming it's dietary? right? Well most of the time it is.... BUT not always. diarrhoea can be caused for others reasons. a key factor in diarrhoea is often stress, or change of environment, parasites, & so on....I know Teddie does not appear stressed, but maybe there is a tiny little thing (no idea what) but something that is causing her to have diarrhoea. Therefore would you consider putting her in a change of environment for 1 week? Let her come stay with me for 1 week? New environment, with no other cats, see what happens & it will give you a break? She would obviously stay in a pen & you may not like that idea, but it may answer some q's???

What do you think Alex?

Wow Kelly. That knocked me for six!! I've just spoken to Robert about it and this is what we've come up with. We will give Teddie this week on the chicken and see if her tummy settles. If there is no sign of improvement by next monday then she comes to you for a week (and I'm actually shaking typing that). My utmost gratitude for making this offer
Alex I have nothing but admiration for you, doing the best you can no animal can wish for more.

This is off track slightly - but I would happily let Cleo come and live with you.
I can say no more, and hope that says enough to you.

I realise you have a life to lead children to feed and bills to pay no one is critising you in any way you have done more than enough.

I have Pm'd you.

Karen

Karen, that means a heck of a lot to me 'cause I know what that old gal means to you!

[smudgley]

ok, well have a think about it, I was really trying hard to think about the "bigger picture" sometimes we have cats that come in with certain problems & it's not always medical, sometimes it can be bahavioural. We all know you want what's best for Teddie & we know you are trying your hardest, but with so many people giving advise & opinions you are going round in circles & tying yourselves in knots.

You know I work in Telford, once a week, so it's no bother to collect her & bring her home....

[alexgirl73]

I've never even considered that it might be a behavioural issue, never even occured to me, yet with all of Elaines problems with Eva, it should have I guess. Rest assured that I will scream your name at the top of my lungs if needed on monday

(Are you sure this isn't just a way of getting your hands on Teddie? Teddie and Bluebell in the same place! You could charge people money to see that)

[smudgley]

Well Thursdays is usually my Telford day - so give me a shout!

[Elaine]

Thats an excellent plan Smudgley. Alex i hadnt given behaviour to be a possibility either. You have a very stressfull situation on your hands and no one is critisising at all. It is hard and yes it is going round in circles, I dont suppose I helped either.
Wishing you all the best xxx