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sherbert
09-01-2007, 08:47 PM
Don't know if anyone can help, but my Mom's persian cat Vallie is losing masses of weight. She is rapidly disappearing. She has been to the vets and had millions of tests - the vet says she is just old and is dying. For a while she was very depressed and not eating, the vet gave her steriods which made her ravenously hungry, but it was just going in one end and out the other. My mom has now stopped with the steroids as she can't bear Vallie being starving all the time. Vallie is now back to eating normally but is still losing weight and the food is just passing through her. Someone mentioned to my Mom that is might be a digestive problem and suggested homeopathy. Has anyone had anything that sounds remotely like this? Vallie is fine in herself, still agile and purrs like a motorboat. We would never forgive ourselves if we had overlooked something

Any advice appreciated

charliebubs
09-01-2007, 08:48 PM
How old is Vallie?

Fran
09-01-2007, 08:49 PM
How old is Vallie?

sherbert
09-01-2007, 08:53 PM
We are not sure as she is a rescue, but we believe she is about 14

charliebubs
09-01-2007, 08:54 PM
14 is a good age :)

Has she been tested for thyroid and kidney problems during the tests she's had?

Does she have outside access? Live with other cats?

Just so we can get an idea of the background...

:)

sherbert
09-01-2007, 08:58 PM
she has been tested for thyroid, kidneys and liver and they are all clear. she does not go outside. she lives with a 7 month old ragdoll who also does not go outside. Originally the problem manifested itself by her passing undigested food, that was last October time. A homeopathic person we spoke to suggested it may be a problem with her enzymes, but she had only treated people and not cats

Fran
09-01-2007, 08:59 PM
This all sounds rather a similar senario to what I went through with my old girl lucky. All her tests came back normal and they really hadn't a clue what was wrong with her except 'old age' and she was displaying similar symptoms to what you are describing. It was suggested that she may have had a tumour in her bowel as one vet did seem to think she may have felt something suspicious but at 18 years of age I wasn't prepared to let them open her up and in the end I made the heart breaking decision to have her pts :(

Has Vallie been tested for PKD - something which has a high incidence amongst persians I believe? it's a kidney problem.

One thing I will say to you though, is purring can often be a sign of illness in cats it's not always associated with them being happy as many people think.

I do hope that someone can come up with more suggestions for you...it must be a heartbreaking time for you all :(

sherbert
09-01-2007, 09:07 PM
thanks for that - will check out PKD - you never know. Did not know about the purring thing - mind you Vallie has always been very vocal so we would not know the difference

she may well just be old, but you have to try everything don't you

charliebubs
09-01-2007, 09:10 PM
I'm really sorry Sherbert, but I don't have any better advice to offer. I hope that someone else on here can help you.

I would say that I'm a big believer in alternative therapies and did an animal aromatherapy course last year. If you and your mum believe in homeopathic remedies then perhaps that is something worth pursuing further. There is a good booik by Richard Allport called "Heal your cat the natural way" which I recommend.

Good luck and keep us posted.

sherbert
09-01-2007, 09:15 PM
thanks very much - will check out that book. We appreciate all the advice and will keep let you know how things go

dandysmom
09-01-2007, 10:04 PM
Yes. please do let us know how Vallie is doing, poor girl! 14 isn't really that old, one of our members cats is 24, and I lost my tortie last Spring at 20...hopefully Vallie should have good years to come if they can find what's wrong with her!

Fran
09-01-2007, 10:10 PM
14 isn't really that old,

I think 14 might be a good age for a Persian. It would be an exceptionally good age for a Meezer. I think moggies tend to have a better life expectancy than some of the more extreme pedigree breeds Eileen??

dandysmom
09-01-2007, 10:15 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, Fran, you're probably right. All my cats that lived the longest: 17, 19 1/2 and 20 were moggies; my Siamese died at 12, and that was the youngest cat I ever lost......

yola
10-01-2007, 09:49 AM
Sherbert - being the owner of 3 persians, my heart goes out to you and your Mum. As my oldest is just short of 10 years old, I don't have any actual advice but I would suggest, if possible try and seek another opinion. A vet who says a cat is just 'old and dying' seems a little dismissive to me :shock: If a vet said that about one of my beloved fluffies I would be a bit concerned to say the least!

tilly
10-01-2007, 10:40 AM
Sorry I don't have any advice but I wish you all the best and hope that Vallie gets better soon.

Sally

Sweet
10-01-2007, 04:57 PM
I cannot offer any advice ((((((hugs)))))) x

dinahsmum
10-01-2007, 05:15 PM
I think I might look for another vet. True this baby is an old one, and it could be that she is suffering nothing more than being old and frail but the vet should suggest something to help her, or if there is no help to be offered than (s)he knows what and when to advise as the ultimate loving last step.
I hope you get soem answers.

Elaine
10-01-2007, 09:31 PM
Polycystic Kidney Disease

What is It?
http://www.felinecrf.org/images/my_cats/harpsie.jpgPolycystic Kidney Disease, known as PKD, is an autosomal dominant genetic disease of the kidneys which is passed on by one or both parents - siblings may be unaffected. PKD affects around 6% of all cats, but appears to be more common in Persian cats, British Shorthairs and others with Persian ancestry. One of our Persians, Harpsie (in the washbasin), has PKD. The distinguishing characteristic of PKD is that cysts are present, usually on both kidneys, and as the cat gets older, these cysts often increase in size and multiply until eventually kidney function is diminished. The cat then develops CRF and eventually dies.

Symptoms
PKD is usually asymptomatic, but a PKD cat may exhibit polydipsia (increased thirst). If the disease progresses so far that CRF results, then the usual CRF symptoms will be present. Most cats with PKD appear to develop CRF around the age of 5 - 7 years but seriously affected cats with multiple cysts can fall ill as young as two. Stress or infection can accelerate this disease.

Much depends how badly the kidneys are affected - Harpsie above has PKD yet he is almost 14 years old and not yet in renal failure. He does, however, get frequent kidney infections; these are relatively common in PKD cats because the bacteria can burrow deep into the cysts. Many PKD cats show a slight heart murmur and slightly swollen kidneys before CRF develops, and male PKD cats are often susceptible to FLUTD (feline lower urinary tract disorder).

Quite often PKD cats die from other causes before reaching CRF status. For those where the PKD does develop into CRF, then the usual CRF symptoms will be apparent, and the usual treatments can be used. CRF itself is generally considered not to be a painful disease. Unfortunately, this may not apply to cats who progress to severe end stage PKD: these cats may suffer pain from the cysts growing rapidly and occasionally rupturing. Sadly, nothing can be done for this, but you do need to watch for this occurring in a PKD cat.

Diagnosis
The University of California at Davis (http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmnews/23-1/vmnews23-1p06.pdf) has identified the gene mutation that causes PKD, and is now offering genetic testing at a cost of US$40 per cat. The test can be run as soon as a kitten is 8-10 weeks old and is almost 100% accurate. You can obtain the sample yourself, it is obtained by non-invasive means so your vet does not need to be involved. Details of how to apply for the test can be found here (http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/service/cat/PKD.html). You will be sent the results via e-mail. Veterinary Diagnostics Center (http://www.vetdnacenter.com/feline-PKD.html) in Ohio offers a similar test for US$48.
In the UK the test is offered by the Animal Health Trust (http://www.aht.org.uk/) (click on Science, then choose Genetics, Cat, Feline Genetic Services, PKD) in Newmarket at a cost of £30 or by the University of Bristol (http://www.bristol.ac.uk/vetpath/lvd/lvd.htm) (click on Downloads on the left, then click on Polycystic Kidney Disease PCR submission form) for £35.
The only other way to diagnose PKD properly is via an ultrasound of the kidneys. Ultrasound is a reasonably accurate method of diagnosis if it is undertaken by somebody skilled in sonography, and ideally with experience of PKD kidneys. Repeated scans may need to be taken if the cat is very young as the cysts may not be visible at that time; it is often hard to detect PKD in cats less than nine months old. Cysts are rare in cats but not all cysts are necessarily PKD; research is still being done in this area. Some PKD cats may also show cysts in their liver.

If you have a Persian cat suspected of having HCM and are planning to have the heart examined by ultrasound, I would recommend having the cat's kidneys examined by ultrasound at the same time in order to rule out PKD. This was how we discovered that Harpsie has PKD - the cardiologist checked his kidneys when he checked his heart. So far Harpsie shows no signs of CRF, although the cysts in his kidneys are growing.

Treatments
PKD is incurable (though see the links further in this section regarding research into two drugs which appear to slow the progression of the disease) and sadly, there are very few treatments available.

Potassium citrate/citric acid intake improves renal function in rats with polycystic kidney disease (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9644634&dopt=Abstract) (1998) Tanner GA American Society of Nephrology 9 pp1242-48 indicated that potassium citrate may help PKD rats; it is not known if this also applies to cats, but potassium citrate is an ingredient in Royal Canin's Persian catfood.

A soy protein diet may also help. Try to ensure that your cat leads a stress free life, free of infection and toxicity.

If the PKD develops into CRF, then the usual CRF treatments can be used. CRF itself is generally considered not to be a painful disease. Unfortunately, this may not apply to cats who progress to severe end stage PKD: these cats may suffer pain from the cysts growing rapidly and occasionally rupturing. Sadly, nothing can be done for this.

The PKD Foundation (http://www.pkdcure.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5284) reports on a drug called OPC31260 which appears to retard cyst production and thus progression of the PKD in humans. Trials are continuing. No studies appear to have been performed on cats as yet.
Effective treatment of an orthologous model of autosomal dominant polycystic kidney disease (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14991049&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum) (2004) Torres VE, Wang X, Qian Q, Somlo S, Harris PC, Gattone VH 2nd Natural Medicine 10(4) pp363-4 reports on the use of OPC-31260 in mice.
Effectiveness of vasopressin V2 receptor antagonists OPC-31260 and OPC-41061 on polycystic kidney disease development in the PCK rat (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15728778)(2005) Wang X (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Abstract&term=%22Wang+X%22%5BAuthor%5D), Gattone V 2nd (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Abstract&term=%22Gattone+V+2nd%22%5BAuthor%5D), Harris PC (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Abstract&term=%22Harris+PC%22%5BAuthor%5D), Torres VE (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_Abstract&term=%22Torres+VE%22%5BAuthor%5D) Journal of the American Society of Nephrology (javascript:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'J Am Soc Nephrol.');) 16(4) pp846-51 reports on research on rats into OPC-31260 and another drug called OPC-41061.

PKD Websites
Autosomal Dominant Polycystic Kidney Disease in Persian Cats (http://www.cfainc.org/health/pkd.html) is an informative article by US vets Biller DS, DiBartola S and Lagerwerf WJ.
PKD FAQs (http://my.erinet.com/~lebordo/PKD/pkdfaq.html) - this site gives a good overview of PKD.
PKD Links (http://www.felinepkd.com/) - this site has many links about PKD, including the main scientific references.
PKD List (http://www.topica.com/lists/pkd-list) - a support list for people with cats with PKD, where you can obtain feedback on research into this disease and support on living with PKD. There are primarily breeders on this list, so much of the discussion concerns research and diagnosis rather than treatment.

Elaine
10-01-2007, 09:32 PM
Sorry that was a bit long but thought it may be benficial to all you Persian owners/lovers.

sherbert
15-01-2007, 10:46 PM
Thanks for that Elaine, and thanks to everyone else who has replied. Just to give you an update, my Mom has now consulted with a homeopathic person (she normally only deals with humans) but she has suggested some of the Bach Rescue Remedys. Vallies weight loss has slowed down somewhat although she is still very frail, but she seems happy enough and is still very active and indeed interactive! The information about PKD has been most informative and we will pursue this line. In the meantime Vallies quality of life is still good, so we will keep our fingers crossed for her

Thanks again to you all and we will keep you updated

alexgirl73
15-01-2007, 10:53 PM
Good to hear that she is a little settled. Hope you find some answers soon. x

Sweet
15-01-2007, 10:55 PM
I use Bachs Rescue Remedy from time to time, its good stuff x

yola
15-01-2007, 11:50 PM
Thank you for the update Sherbert. I hope Vallie stabilises and continues is good health for a long time to come.

Fran
16-01-2007, 12:15 AM
Glad there is some improvement. Fingers crossed you will get to the bottom of Vallie's problems x

Elaine
16-01-2007, 06:45 PM
Glad to hear Vallie is doing well. Please keep us informed how it goes as I know of some one else with a persian and suspected PKD.

Kim
16-01-2007, 10:08 PM
Sorry to hear of the problems with Vallie, Sherbert. It is heartbreaking to see them suffer and not know what to do. I agree that your vet does seem rather vague. Has Vallie been tested for hyperthyroidism? Cats with this disease are always hungry yet lose vast amounts of weight. I really hope the situation improves.

Kay
23-01-2007, 02:37 PM
Does she or has she ever lived in a multi cat household? It is possible that she has FIP, sometimes known as the purring disease. Nearly all cats that live in a multi cat household will carry the coronavirus which in itself is harmless but in some cats for whatever reason, possible stress, it can mutate into FIP. signs are poor appetite, weight loss, lethargy and if it is the wet type their will be fluid in their stomach or lungs. This is not evident in the dry version though. Unfortunately their is no cure and it is fatal there is also no conclusive diagnosis other than by post-mortem. The vet can take a sample of bloood and do a titre reading but this only indicates that the cat has been in contact with the coronavirus not actual FIP. However if the reading is excessively high then FIP is indicated. It does however usually effect cats between 10months and 2 years although of course there are exceptions to this.

sherbert
23-01-2007, 08:03 PM
Hello everyone

I am sad to report that Vallie had to be put to sleep. My Mom took her back to the vets for yet another barrage of tests, but they could find nothing wrong and so concluded that it must be cancer. The vet said it would not be fair to take her home. She was a little fighter, she had had cancer of the mouth about 6 years ago, followed by eye problems that let to her having her eye removed, but through it all she remained active and loving. I think this was just a step too far, she was as light as a bag of feathers at the end. My Mom was really distressed, but I think in her heart she knew it was coming

I would just like to say thanks to all of you who have responded, it has given my Mom great comfort

Sherbert

Mags
23-01-2007, 08:13 PM
I am so, so sorry to hear of the sad loss of Vallie :( There was obviously something very seriously wrong with her and the heartbreaking decision has now freed her from all pain :( She is now at rest ...........

((((hugs)))) to your mum and you, Sherbert x

Run free Vallie ...... xx

sherbert
23-01-2007, 08:24 PM
thanks Mags

tilly
23-01-2007, 08:25 PM
Hi Sorry to hear about the loss of Vallie but be safe in the knowledge that she is free from pain.

Sally

Fran
23-01-2007, 08:35 PM
I am so very sorry to read this news :(

RIP Vallie x

alexgirl73
23-01-2007, 10:59 PM
So sorry to hear your news. RIP Vallie, run free little one x

yola
23-01-2007, 11:35 PM
Bless you and your Mum for doing the decent thing :( RIP beautiful Vallie.

sammy
24-01-2007, 12:24 AM
Very sorry. RIP Vallie. xxx

smudgley
24-01-2007, 12:44 AM
Sorry to hear about Vallie... :cry:

dinahsmum
24-01-2007, 09:34 AM
Sorry to hear this.

Elaine
27-01-2007, 08:47 PM
So very sorry to read about poor Vallie. Hugs to your mum xxx