Indoors or Outdoors?

[bobbie3917]

By Jean Hofve, DVM


Are you thinking about allowing your cat to go outside? To make the
right decision, you need to know the facts.

The average lifespan of an indoor cat is 15-18 years. For a cat
allowed outdoors, the average life is only 2-5 years. There are many
dangers that can harm or kill an outdoor cat.

If your cat goes outside, or you're considering allowing it, please
read this entire list. Then be honest with yourself, and answer this
one question truthfully: can you absolutely, 100% prevent every one
of these things from happening to your cat?


Injury from a fight with another cat (or other animal). A bite-wound
abscess can cost a couple of hundred bucks to treat, not to mention
that it's very painful to the cat.
Diseases from other cats, such as Feline Leukemia, FIV (feline
AIDS), distemper, rabies, toxoplasmosis.
Injury or death by car, truck, motorcycle or other moving vehicle.
Even a bicyclist can injure or kill a cat (and if the cyclist is
injured in the accident, you may also be privileged to pay her large
medical bills, not to mention replacing the bike!).
Stationary cars—yes, even a stopped car can be dangerous. Fanbelts
cause the most hideous injuries you can imagine, ripping the fur and
skin right off the cat's body and slashing through the muscle. It's
not pretty. Those few that survive carry the scars for the rest of
their lives.
Leaking antifreeze can also kill. A cat walking through a small
spill of antifreeze and then licking its paws has ingested a fatal
dose—usually within days, although I have seen it take months for a
cat to actually die of the resulting kidney failure.
Dog attacks. Sometimes cats with seemingly minor injuries will still
die from the extreme fear they experience from the attack. Dog bite
injuries can be painful and costly to treat. I had to do multiple
surgeries on one cat who was severely bitten. Of course, dog attacks
often have even grimmer consequences.
Stolen to be sold to a lab for "research" or dissection. Many cats
dissected in America's classrooms today are stolen from owners or
captured off the streets and sold, alive, to biological supply
companies. In Mexico, children are given $1 for every cat they
catch. "We have irrefutable evidence that the cats cruelly killed in
Mexico were going to American biological supply firms who supply
public schools with animals for dissection." (Cat Fancy 1995) In
1990, an undercover investigation of well-known biological supply
companies documented Class B licensed dealers delivering hundreds of
live cats of unknown origin to those companies. (www.neavs.org).
Tens of thousands of cats die every year so that children and
college kids and nursing students can dissect them.
Stolen, killed and eaten by people. In some cultures, this is
perfectly normal behavior, just as some people eat beef, which would
horrify a Hindu, and others eat pork, which is taboo in Islam and
Judaism.
Stolen to be used as "live bait" for training fighting dogs (common,
especially if you live in or near a good-sized city); live cats are
thrown into the pit or tied up and dangled above it to be ripped
apart by the dogs, to "blood train" them.
Abuse by juvenile delinquents (of any age)—beaten, shot, stabbed,
sexually abused, dissected alive, etc. All of these are common and
well documented in cities, towns, and rural areas. I personally saw
many of these cases, and was involved in others when I worked at the
Animal Protection Institute:
A kitten with a fever of 107ºF and two shattered, infected hind legs
and numerous puncture wounds. The kids apparently dragged her out of
the dog's mouth, but didn't tell mom. The injured kitten did not
receive veterinary care until it was almost too late.
A sexually abused 8-week old calico kitten.
A Birman kitten rescued by a street person from a group of kids who
were repeatedly throwing him against a brick wall for fun.
Numerous cats injured or killed by guns or arrows or, in one case,
beaten to death with a golf club by a man walking his dog along a
bike path. Why he was carrying a golf club in the first place was
never explained.
Cats soaked in gasoline and set on fire.
A litter of newborn kittens deliberately crushed to death in a trash
compactor.
A kitten set on a hot barbecue grill for laughs. Rescued by an
outraged neighbor, she survived for a few agonizing hours before
dying of massive burns.
A live adult cat tied into a black garbage bag and thrown into the
Platte River, where a passerby noticed the bag moving and pulled it
out.
Kittens thrown from moving cars. A client of mine behind one of
these picked up the kitten and adopted her. Angel was one of the
lucky ones. I've seen 2 dead kittens on the median of I-25 in Denver
just this year, out of perhaps a dozen trips.
Encounters with a poisonous animal. Depending on where you live, the
deadly options may include rattlesnake, copperhead, coral snake,
water moccasin (also called cottonmouth), tarantulas, black widow
and brown recluse spiders, and scorpions.
Predators. Besides people, there are a lot of critters that can hurt
or kill a cat. You may have several of these in your area:
Alligators (if you live in the southeast, you probably know someone
who has lost a cat or dog to a 'gator).
Broad-winged hawks (wingspan over 4 feet, dive speed over 100 mph)
Owls – A friend of mine watched an owl strike and fly off with a
large, screaming Maine coon cat in his talons.
Eagles (cats are on the menu of Golden eagles, 4 of which were seen
circling my town just last week)
Coyotes—these resourceful relatives of our domestic dogs live
virtually everywhere in the U.S., including Manhattan and downtown
Los Angeles. One night, on major thoroughfare in Denver, I
personally saw a very large coyote trotting down the middle of the
street!
Foxes—one of my feline patients was brought in with a clear set of
puncture marks across her back and down both sides, in a perfect
imprint of a fox's jaws. This particular fox was living in central
Denver. A large cat might be able to escape a fox—or it might die
trying.
Raccoons—they don't necessarily kill, but they can cause devastating
injuries. Raccoons also carry rabies in many parts of the country.
Adult raccoons typically weight 25-50 lbs. Your cat is no match.
Skunks—the danger is not just from the unpleasant end! As members of
the weasel family, skunks have vicious teeth and bad tempers.
Other large predators -— in my little town west of Boulder,
Colorado, there are bears and mountain lions that have been seen
near the schoolyard or trotting down Main Street. More than a dozen
domestic cats and two dogs have been taken by lions; in just the
last week, two cats were snatched within sight of their owners.
Diseases from other animals and from the environment (rabies,
distemper, feline leukemia, feline AIDS, feline infectious
peritonitis, Lyme disease, ehrlichiosis, cytauxzoonosis, ringworm,
sporotrichosis, and hundreds of other infectious organisms you've
never heard of). Some are merely annoying, others are fatal.
Traps and snares. Traps do not discriminate. Thousands of cats and
dogs have lost limbs and lives to steel-jawed traps set for raccoons
and other species. One of my neighbor's cats had what was left of
its leg amputated just recently after being caught in a leghold
trap. These traps are legal for control of "nuisance" animals—even
in states like Colorado that have banned leghold traps. Few of these
nuisance-control trappers are licensed or regulated. They do not
care what they catch; if they find a cat or dog in their traps, they
usually just kill it and dispose of the body.
Impoundment by animal control, an annoyed neighbor, or local cat-
hater. At the shelter, your cat will spend a terrifying few days in
a metal cage until:
you reclaim him (less than 5% of cats in shelters are ever re-united
with their families)
he is destroyed (the fate of the vast majority of these cats)
if he is extremely lucky, adopted to a family who will keep him
indoors!

[bobbie3917]

Parasites—fleas, ticks, heartworm, roundworms, tapeworms—as well as
the parasites of the parasites, like tapeworms that live in fleas,
or West Nile virus and rickettsial diseases carried by mosquitoes.
Skin cancer—cats with white or light-colored fur around the face and
ears are prone to cancer from exposure to direct sunlight.
Hanging/choking from a non-safety collar, or a malfunctioning safety
collar.
Accidental poisoning from eating a poisoned rodent or walking
through herbicides, fertilizers, pesticides, eating poisonous
plants, and other sources.
Intentional poisoning. I grew up in a neighborhood where a vicious
woman deliberately baited and poisoned cats for many, many years. In
those days, all cats went outside; no one ever heard of an indoor
cat. Our family lost several cats to poisoning over the years we
lived there.
Exposure to weather (heatstroke, snow, ice, severe storms) and
unable to find adequate shelter.
Being accidentally trapped in a garage, basement, car, or other
enclosure. Before I knew how dangerous it is for cats to roam, one
of my cats wandered into an open garage, apparently hid inside when
the car started, and spent a long weekend locked inside while the
people were away. I once found my other cat standing on the
dashboard of a van across the way. Evidently she slipped in through
the open sunroof and couldn't get out again. Had the Southern
California weather been just a little warmer that day, she could
have died of hyperthermia. I had thought it was safe to let them out
there, because it was a cul-de-sac with hardly any traffic and open
space all around. Not!
Undetected disease. Guardians cannot always carefully observe cats
who spend a lot of time outside. Urinary tract problems are
frequently missed because the cat so rarely uses an indoor
litterbox. I've had clients find their male cats dead of a urinary
blockage before they ever knew the cat was sick.
Stupid accidents. Things happen. One of my cats broke a toe when she
fell off a fence and caught her paw between two of its boards, which
is where I found her.
A lot of people let their cats out "supervised". That is, the
guardian is actually out in the yard with the cat, or pretty close
by, mostly, at least until the phone rings or the timer goes off or
the kids scream or some other distraction occurs.

If you think your mere presence is sufficient to protect your cat,
you're only fooling yourself. You're always within earshot?
Great...you might be lucky enough to hear the squealing tires—and
the thud. Here are a couple of other experiences from people,
including me, who thought their cats were safe outdoors

[bobbie3917]

A man was outside one morning, standing on his deck, with his cat
sitting right next to him. He was drinking his coffee and enjoying
the sunrise. Suddenly he heard a funny noise and looked to see what
it was. He saw, already a long way off, a coyote with the cat IN ITS
MOUTH—snatched from RIGHT NEXT TO HIS FOOT. The guy yelled, and
fortunately the coyote dropped the uninjured cat and ran away. All
concerned were definitely sadder, but hopefully wiser. Did you know
that coyotes can run as fast as greyhounds? Cats can't, and neither
can you!
One lady's cat was outside, on his harness attached to a
clothesline. She went inside for just a couple of minutes. When she
came back out, she found that the cat had tried to jumped over the
fence, and was partially hanging from it. His feet were on the
ground but he was slowly suffocating. The cat survived, but the trip
to the emergency clinic was both terrifying and expensive,
My neighbor's elderly cat, Boots, was sitting on his own porch one
summer day, just 2 weeks before his 20th birthday. We had a big
party planned for him. He was dragged from the porch and torn apart
by two pit bulls, who played tug-of-war with his broken body.
Unfortunately, he was not killed outright. His owner (who was in the
house, literally only a few feet away) heard Boots screaming, scared
off the dogs, and rushed poor Boots to the emergency clinic, where
he survived for a few painful hours until he was finally euthanized.
Happy Birthday, dear sweet Boots. I miss you so much! I cry every
time I think of you.
A cat being walked on a leash was chewing on some grass. The cat
started coughing, but the guardians couldn't see anything in his
mouth. They watched the cat, who was still coughing sporadically,
overnight, and took him to the vet first thing in the morning. The
veterinarian found a 3-inch piece of grass stalk near the cat's
larynx, which she removed. Lung x-rays showed fluid, possibly from
lodged grass seeds. The cat eventually recovered.
Many years ago, my roommates and I were sitting on the porch one
evening with our cat Mr. Crosby, watching our 2 dogs play in the
yard, which was surrounded by a 6' wooden privacy fence. Suddenly
there were 3 dogs instead of 2; a large Irish setter had suddenly
bounded over the high fence like a deer. When he saw us, boing! he
jumped back out. We were so stunned we never even moved. (Even
though that story had a happy ending, Mr. Crosby did not. He moved
out with one of the roommates. As they were moving into their new
place, Mr. Crosby slipped out through an open door and was never
seen again).
Face it—as a human, you simply do not have the ability to react in
time to stop EVERYTHING that could possibly happen to your cat. Your
cat is faster than you. Your neighbor's dog is faster than you. Cars
are definitely faster than you.

Granted, some cats do live long and happy lives outside. My
neighbor's outdoor cat was 15 and doing fine. Then they got a
kitten. Sweetest little black kitty you ever saw. They started
letting him out when he was only about 8 or 9 weeks old. I found him
outside at 10 p.m. one freezing winter night when I walked the dog.
I took him in overnight, then went over to their house the next
morning to discuss it with them. They said he could get under the
house to stay warm, just like the older cat did; evidently the
kitten didn't know that. They also said their older cat would teach
the kitten to be street smart. I guess he was a slow learner,
because he died right in front of their house, struck and killed by
a car on our very busy street long before his first birthday.

Think about this: when you have just a handful of cats who reach old
age outside, how many other cats have to die very, very young to
bring the average age of death down to less than 5?

None of these people whose stories I've told wanted or expected
these horrible things to happen their beloved cats. But all of this
pain and suffering could have been prevented by one simple thing:
keeping them inside. It's your choice, but it's your cat's life.

A cat who has never been outdoors probably doesn't have the
slightest clue that there is an outdoors. I think when they look out
a window, it must be like "kitty TV" to them; with smell-o-vision if
the window is open!

It is never safe for a cat to go out. Rural cats are in at least as
much danger as city cats; the dangers are just a little different.
Less chance of being hit by a car, but more dangerous predators. A
fox or owl can and will easily catch and kill a cat. If you think
your cat is safe outside because it stays in your yard or doesn't
go "too far", you're only fooling yourself. Unfortunately, that
illusion could mean life or death to your cat. When your outdoor cat
just doesn't come home one day, you may never know why, and you will
only be able to hope and pray that his death was quick and painless.

There is another side to the coin, too; and that is the danger that
cats pose to birds and other prey animals, including endangered
species. Free-roaming cats are superb predators who kill many
millions of songbirds and other feathered friends every year. If
your cat goes outside, be prepared to deal with the dead -- or
worse, dying -- birds and small mammals (mice, voles, baby rabbits),
snakes and other wounded creatures that your can may leave on your
doorstep!

For those who really want to give their cats the outdoor experience,
it can be done without the risk. Consider cat-fencing or building an
outdoor cat enclosure. It doesn't have to be big. But it will keep
your cat in, and danger out.

[Luke]

Very intersing...but a lot of the info is only related to the U.S...many things do not occur over here...and many diseases/ilnesses' arent present in the U.K such as heart worm..

[Fran]

By Jean Hofve, DVM Are you thinking about allowing your cat to go outside? To make the
right decision, you need to know the facts.

The average lifespan of an indoor cat is 15-18 years. For a cat
allowed outdoors, the average life is only 2-5 years. There are many
dangers that can harm or kill an outdoor cat.


All my cats have been allowed access to outdoors..
Lucky was 18 years old when I had her pts
Jemima 17 years old
Gizmo 13 years old

I am not quite sure how this person has derived these facts :?

[Mags]

I'm sorry but I don't agree with that person......any previous outdoor cat that I have owned lived to a good age and died through old age and illness....

[Snoof]

Well, I see your point, Nat. I really do. But consider this:

Ninja could get hurt, yes. But he is happier being let out, and his quality of life is more important to me than how much of it he has. For the same reasons people put their cats to sleep when the quality of life is too poor to be worth it, I let my cat go outside.

He has no sense of long-term time. He knows when he's about to be fed and he knows where to find me if he wants fussing. But he doesn't know what it means to have a shorter life. He doesn't know what "tomorrow" means. All he knows is that today he's happy. And that's all he needs to know for me to feel I'm doing my job right.

I hope he has many more todays. But ultimately, to him, that doesn't really matter. The only today he cares about is the one he's in, right now. And his todays were miserable when we were keeping him in.

Would I feel better if he were an inside cat? Yes, if he were happier that way. But he isn't. I don't feel that any cat who isn't afraid to be outdoors for some reason or another is truly happier being an inside cat, and I don't feel it's ethical to keep them inside unless they've never know otherwise or truly have no desire to go outside.

But what other people do with their cats is their business. I won't ever judge them, because they know their cats a sight better than I do, and because they make their choices based on the facts of their lives. I have, in the past, chosen to keep cats indoors - two because we moved to live nextdoor to a couple of dogs who regularly ate cats, and one because she was old, ill and frail (and we lived in a neighbourhood where cats were frequently found after having been skinned alive). It's a personal choice everyone has to make.

But ultimately, the risk of a shorter life (which is, as Fran pointed out, a bit dubious - my very first outside cat was at last check still alive - in a different country - and was about 14 years old at the time) is a risk everyone must measure up for themselves and logic out to come to their own conclusions.

I'm comfortable with my reasoning and my decision.

[bobbie3917]

first off i put this up just cos i thought it was a good read and some ppl are always asking about letting there cat out or not so i thought they would like to read it

yes, it is what i think but im not pushing it on any1, im just putting it out there for ppl to see. yes it is mostly USA based but we do have snakes here that can kill cats and owls and the like.

i do agree with that he say's about how many cats have to die at such a young age to get an average age of out door cats of 5. people on this list have been very very lucky. i have had 4 cats before Mitten's and i lost all of them before the age of 3. 2 i know that died and i don't know what happened to the other 2. i also have a friend that was having a new kitten every few months cos it would disappear she never did think of keep them in (but her mother does now)

Snoof, what you say is true and cats don't know tomorrow or next week and i would never dream of keeping a cat in that is used to going out.

[Kim]

We hand reared 3 kittens, all went outide and lived to 19, 16 & 15 respectively. We chose to live in a cul-de-sac as we hope it is safer for the cats, I am aware of other dangers, but I personally believe that outdoor cats have an enjoyable life. We have lived here for 11 years and had no problems whatsoever. Many vets and behaviourists recommend allowing cats outside. Only my Birman goes outside and wanders, the other 3 are quite happy to just stay in the garden. To see them basking in the sunshine under the apple tree is a pleasure I could never deny them. Yes, there are risks, as with everything. We, as individuals have to weigh up these risks and decide what is best for our furry friends. ;)

[Hreow]

It's very anti-outdoors. I would be happier with a more balanced view. Surely cats have died indoors as well - by doing things to alleviate boredom (houseplants, crawl-spaces) etc. - but that's not in the article. Just the most horrible outdoor-death cases found in the US during N years.
Think it's your heart that has to decide. Whether you'd be less worried with Mittens outside, or kept indoors. (I'm assuming anyone who reads this is a cat person and links their happiness to their cat's.)
Rover would be an outside cat if we could put a cat-flap in for him, and if he didn't go streaking off in a blind panic from moving cars (he runs far away enough to get lost - stupid cat), because I believe he would be happier that way. At the moment (until we move) we compromise with harness and lead.

[smudgley]

Mine are indoor / outdoor cats - they go where they like, when they like.
I have been through the pain / heartache of loosing a cat in a RTA - Mitten was killed outright & what a terrible ordeal that was for everyone.
However I personally wouldn't have an indoor cat. My Smudge goes off all day, playing, chasing, getting up to mischeif & that's what she loves to do. There are risks with cats going outside, but I think the main risks are being involved in a RTA or being infected with FeLV or FIV from another cat. As for a lot of the other stuff, some of it is rare & other things like worms / fleas can be resolved or prevented by having a regular endo/ecto parasite control programme in place.

[Luke]

I was allways brought up regarding cats, that its best for a more natural quality of life and an unnatural life led for many years-basically the old saying quality rather than quantity
I tried to have Clementine as a house cat...was 'ok' but i could tell she wasn't fully happy with the confines of indoors...and then one day she escaped, got lost and LUCKILY found her way back....wouldnt have a purely house cat again..and surprising as it sounds, pedigree cats differ hardly to moggies in the senses ive known many a siamese and persian who love a good romb out and about!:D

[Elaine]

Feeling slightly offended here. Winston was an indoor cat for 21 years and had a very good quality of life I feel. I first got him along with his brother Mutley, who was blind, and felt it wouldnt be fair to let one out and not the other, we also lived in a very undesirable part of town at that point. When they were two years old, we moved here and have a safe back garden. Mutley was always much more adventurous than Winston and liked the back garden but Winston always chose to stay indoors. Winston had a few companions throughout his life and was always a very happy and contented cat.
Eva likes the back garden but we only let her out when we are home and she wont go out in foul weather.
Bernie as yet doesnt go out but he will once we get him micro chipped. I have to say I fear Bernie going out as he is much more agile than Eva and may be able to escape the confines of the back garden. As we live in the city centre i dont want this to happen.

[Julie84]

I think it is a very personal choice. I also think it depends a lot on the cat(s) in question.

My two boys are both indoors only for many varied reasons, selfish reasons on my part, and also because I believe the benefits, especially as the situation stands at the moment, greatly outweigh the negative effects that might occur if they were allowed free outside access.

I don't think there are any cut and dry answers - I certainly feel some guilt when Thomas and Murphy watch the world go by through the window (although they seem to have an unhealthy obsession with trying to touch the cars through the glass :roll: ) and I think they would love to chase butterflies around a garden and sunbathe on the grass - but at the moment they can't and while they haven't experienced they can't miss it in my opinion.

Everyone (not including people on this forum ;) ) thinks this is wrong - my family, my partner and his family, friends, work colleagues - my vet! One person said to me, surely it would better for them to have a really full life enjoying all that life had to offer a cat, even if it meant they died at a much younger age. But I don't want my cats to die young - maybe it is very selfish but I want them to be with me, happy and healthy, for as long as possible. It's difficult. My mum insists that her cats are fine and go outdoors and always points out that Fluff (who died recently) lived to 18. However, she conveniently forgets that Cuddles died before her 2nd birthday, Carrieanne before her first (both knocked over by cars) and Sammy just disappeared when he was about 1 (he was a moggy but a beautiful English blue colour). Fluff, although living to 18, was never the same after she was knocked over at 14 (having her pelvis broken in three places). She was asleep under my dad's car and he just didn't check before he drove away - I don't think the rest of her life was very comfortable after that. :( I know lots of people have outdoor cats and never (or rarely) suffer any bad experiences - as I said, I think it is a very personal choice, just a very difficult one.

[Rosie]

I have always had outdoor cats and yes lost one or two on the way but to me a short natural life is better than a "life in prison" although in luxury. Virginia McKenna said in an interview that she would rather see an endangered species die out than live in a captive state and I totally agree with her. Cats love hunting and prowling around at night. My cat has constant access to the outside and is always bring me gifts for the dinner table, bless her, although mice and shrews are not quite to my taste:lol:

Years ago I desperately wanted either a Norweigen Forest Cat or a Main Coon and at that time the breeders stated that these were cats had to have access to the outdoors. Now they say that they should be kept inside.

It is for our benefit alone that we keep cats inside.

[Julie84]

It is for our benefit alone that we keep cats inside.

I don't think that is the case at all. As I said my decision is partly for selfish reasons - that I don't want anything bad to happen to them or for them to die a premature death but this must also be a benefit to the cat itself?

I keep my boys in so:-

they don't get run over, hit or squashed by a car - it's not so much the being killed outright that upsets me but the thought they might be seriously injured and have to lie in agony until someone takes pity, I found them or they died
they don't get run over - for the driver's sake. I dread the thought of ever killing an animal and I think it would haunt me if I ever did. Cats can not be taught the Highway Code and therefore are always at risk when they are outside. I don't want someone to have to live with the fact that they killed my cat when it is unlikely to have been their fault at all.
they don't get into fights with other animals - being neutered toms who have not experienced different animals (including strange cats) puts them at a huge disadvantage as well as the fact that they are trained to keep their claws only for the scratching posts
they are not set upon by the children that live near me. I have three schools very close to my house and although most children are lovely, some seem to take great pleasure out of taunting animals and in some cases causing great suffering. :cry:
they don't go to the toilet in anyone else's garden. I would be annoyed if someone's animal kept using my garden as a toilet, especially if I had children, so why should I allow my animals to go wherever they wanted (you can't guarantee where a free roaming animal will go to the toilet).
they don't kill small animals. I accept cats do this but I can only imagine the upset a (bird watching) neighbour would feel if my cat killed a wild animal in their garden or a child observed the process. Just because I choose to have a (predating) cat as a pet does not mean it should interfere with anyone else's pleasures/hobbies.I have other points but I think I'm starting to rant! :oops:

As I said before, it is a personal choice and I don't think anybody is 'wrong' whichever option they choose.

I think that was a very judgemental comment to make though. :( Am I bad because I took a decision based on all the evidence I had to hand at the time and I though was best for my cats?

[Snoof]

Of course not, Elaine. And it's also largely a matter of what your cat's used to. As you said, Winston preferred to stay inside - but then being outside wasn't really part of his life.

I mostly object to "being let outside" being made into a boogeyman with biased propaganda. It's a personal decision everyone makes for themselves, and I have to say I'm glad we live in the neighbourhood we live in because cats are pretty safe round here. For Ninja, being an inside cat is not an option, so I don't know what we'd do (and how much I'd worry) if we lived in a less desirable neighbourhood.

[candyshandy]

I was allways brought up regarding cats, that its best for a more natural quality of life and an unnatural life led for many years-basically the old saying quality rather than quantity
I tried to have Clementine as a house cat...was 'ok' but i could tell she wasn't fully happy with the confines of indoors...and then one day she escaped, got lost and LUCKILY found her way back....wouldnt have a purely house cat again..and surprising as it sounds, pedigree cats differ hardly to moggies in the senses ive known many a siamese and persian who love a good romb out and about!:D

There are many valid reasons for restricting outside access to persians:

1. Tend to have no other animal sense - eg. will quite happily walk up to a dog without realising it may harm.

2. Tend to have rubbish road sense

3. Would you like to have to sort out a persian's coat if it got caught in a shower - this could be quite stressful for the cat

4. Persians are one of the well known breeds and are quite often stolen by idiots

For the first 2 years my boys were 100% indoor only and were extremely happy. The reason I decided to catproof the garden was entirely selfish, it meant I could open the back door in the hot weather. They are only allowed out when I am at home and I do tend to keep an eye on them anyway. Foofoo does venture out but much prefers to stay indoors - as she proved on Sunday. The back door was wide open and she was akip upstairs :roll:

[Julie84]

Virginia McKenna said in an interview that she would rather see an endangered species die out than live in a captive state and I totally agree with her.

Virginia McKenna was talking about wild animals. The cats we have living in our homes are domesticated and far removed from their wild counterparts. It would be wrong to try to make a feral cat, or adult cat that has always lived outside (had outside access) become indoors only. Even when it it for their own benefits, I believe it has a negative mental impact.

Kittens born in a loving home environment, with plenty of mental stimulation can not miss something they have not experienced.

As their main caregiver - and the person who chose (selfishly) to have pet cats - it is my responsibility to choose, as I see best, how they will live. What food they will eat, what litter they will use, if they have friends or can reproduce and whether they have access to the outside or not (not a definitive list). I tried to make all my decisions informed ones with the best information I had available to me at that time. We will all have different opinions and ideas but that doesn't mean that someone is right and someone else is wrong does it?

[Hreow]

We've all thought long and hard, at some point or another, before callously keeping our animals in/booting them out into the world. {phrasing joking and intentional}
I have complete faith in all out abilities to do the right thing under the circumstances we find ourselves, just as I believe that a caring owner will be able to judge the health of their animal. That we still ask ourselves if we made the right decision, shows an open mind. I would trust Rover with any one of you (but you **still** can't have him!).


This is why I like this list. No-one is saying one solution or the other is completely wrong. We can all name reasons pro and con, and we do. We all seem to be saying that it depends on the cat and the circumstances - i.e. we all care deeply for the welfare of the cat. Pages of replies, and not one person has gotten their knickers in a serious twist. I may regain a smidge of my long-lost faith in humanity at this rate.

[Julie84]

I would trust Rover with any one of you (but you **still** can't have him!).

So mean... :p

Totally agree, Hreow. :)

[Rosie]

Kittens born in a loving home environment, with plenty of mental stimulation can not miss something they have not experienced.


Animals like humans are born with basic instincts and I believe (in my opinion) that all animals have some right to a degree of freedom even if it is in a large fenced off outside area where there are trees and grass and places to explore in different kinds of weather and I hate the idea of birds in cages as well, just as an aside. If I lived on a very busy main road that my cats had access to I wouldn't have cats I just feel passionately that they need to have choice.

[Booktigger]

I think the stats are for cats that are truly outdoor, rather than indoor/outdoor, they coudl also be including ferals in that stat, and they are only an average. Ginger lived for 3 years outside before I got him, but his teeth were so bad that he could barely get food into his mouth (yet he was still overweight), so I don't know how much longer he would have lasted, as the little old dear who gave him chicken once a week wouldn't have taken him to the vets. Mine have all been allowed outdoor access, my first cat did get an abscess which we believe came from the neighbours cat (so they gave me some money towards the bill, as well as taking her for me), but I do think that is all, and my neighbours have had very few probs with letting them have outdoor access. Ginger could never be an outdoor cat though, he gets awfully depressed if he has to spend the full day and night in the house unless it is by his choice. Doesn't help that he doesn't like using a tray. Yet I can leave the front door wide open and Pebbles will be fast asleep upstairs, and seems to prefer sunbathing on the windowsill than outside.

[Snoof]

Yes, and the stats will also include cats who never go inside (but aren't feral, exactly) and cats who live on a farm (where heavy machinery and possibly herd animals may up the ante). Also, bear in mind that in the US there's a lot more wildlife and rabies is still an issue.

Around here, I don't think many cats have the chance to be snatched by a coyote :lol: and the odds of them being bitten by something wild and contracting rabies are pretty negligible. In the US (depending on the area) this is much more likely.

[bobbie3917]

first off yes this is 1 sided its about the danger off letting cats out side yes many cats do died inside as well but if we own a cat then they all have to come in some time!!

with Luke saying about some pedigree love going out i bet all cats would love to go out pedigree or not but some times its not practical at all when you have a breed of cat that is long coated if it goes out for just 10 mins it can come home in a right mess that is stressful for the owner as well as the cat unless the owner just leave it in a mess and then poor cat!

when i get settled after i move i will be making a cat run in the garden for the cats to go out into at any time (like a cat flap straight in to the run or something), before my split with the ex we had drawn up plans to make a cat run in the garden here.
so my cats will get to go out but not get the chance of getting knocked over poo in other ppls garden kill small birds ect ect ect........

please can some 1 tell me why they don't let there dogs stray but they do a cat?

but i have to say there are many more reasons to keep a cat in then to let them out.
the only reason to let them out if cos its wrong to keep them in (i cant see no other reason to let them out)

[Emm]

it is an entirely personal choice whether to allow your cats outdoors or not. When I first got my cats we lived in a flat. We gave our cats limited access outside - this meant we went out with them and walked them around the park or played with them - they weren't on harnesses or leads or anything but they always stayed close - neighbours used to laugh at this :lol:

When we moved to this house we deliberately chose it so that we could let the cats come and go as they please no roads to worry about.

Now if I were to get any more cats they will be indoor cats with access to a secure garden - why? because its a cruel world out there and I don't have to worry about roads but I do have to worry about my neighbour poisoning my cats - and that is very stressful. :(


please can some 1 tell me why they don't let there dogs stray but they do a cat?


Dogs and Cats are completley different. Cats are independant dogs belong in a pack. Where I am the dogs that are left to wander become a real problem they join other dogs and can become quite aggressive and threatening.

oops that is in bold - I never meant it to be in bold but I can't make it go away.

[bobbie3917]

so cats that go out are not a problem?
they rip rubish bags
they kill small birds/animals
they poo where they like and its thats your childs sand box then tugh
same with there pee
i have heard of some that scratch cars and the like.
some big toms can be aggressive and will attack for no reason

[Donna]

My cats have outdoor access, but only when I am home. That is a compromise for us all. I am at work happy knowing they are safe indoors, and when I get home the catflap is open for the evening until dark. Then they are kept in until their early morning half hour stroll!

Nobody is right or wrong. Everybody has to make decisions about their pets. And that decision is right in that instance.

There are no rules. We each decide how best to look after our pets.

[Donna]

so cats that go out are not a problem?
they rip rubish bags
they kill small birds/animals
they poo where they like and its thats your childs sand box then tugh
same with there pee
i have heard of some that scratch cars and the like.
some big toms can be aggressive and will attack for no reason



My thoughts on these ideas are:


Rubbish bags should not be left out on streets etc. They should be in dustbins. If cats rip them then they have not been disposed of correctly in my opinion. :roll:

If they kill birds and small animals then that is the way things are. Animals KILL each other. Its what animals do.:?

Childrens sand boxes should be covered. I had a covered sandbox for this reason (also foxes could do their business in it too if left open).

Never seen a cat scratch a car.:shock:

I have an agressive cat living near me and it terrorises my two cats, but I accept this is the nature and heirarchy of the cat world. Never seen an aggressive cat attack a human :shock:

[Emm]

originally posted by bobbie3917
so cats that go out are not a problem?
they rip rubish bags
they kill small birds/animals
they poo where they like and its thats your childs sand box then tugh
same with there pee
i have heard of some that scratch cars and the like.
some big toms can be aggressive and will attack for no reason


they kill small birds/animals

how many small animals and large ones for that matter do we kill each year on the roads, pesticides etc?


they poo where they like and its thats your childs sand box then tugh
same with there pee


so do many animals - what about birds they poo all over do we stop them from being outside - sand boxes should be covered up. Every weekend how many men are peeing up against a wall or shop window?


i have heard of some that scratch cars and the like
so do many children (and some adults!) some even write obscenities on walls.


I just don't think any of those above reasons are enough to keep cats in. But like has been said before it is an entirely personal choice. I have outdoor cats at the moment - but if I were to get any more they would be indoor with limited access to outdoors.

[Snoof]

Whether or not cats are meant to go out, they cannot be compared to dogs. Completely different animals, behaviours, and psychologies.

And I don't see how "because it would be wrong to keep them in" is an invalid reason. If that's what someone believes, then how is it different from "because it would be wrong to let them out"?

There are hazards to the outside. There are hazards, period, to keeping animals as pets. For Ninja, being kept inside carries the consequence of deep depression. I don't think that's a negligible risk for an animal whose happiness is my responsibility as much as his health is. In my opinion, his health isn't going to do him much good if he's perpetually unhappy and in a state of rebellion.

[Kim]

so cats that go out are not a problem?
they rip rubish bags
they kill small birds/animals
they poo where they like and its thats your childs sand box then tugh
same with there pee
i have heard of some that scratch cars and the like.
some big toms can be aggressive and will attack for no reason

Sorry, but I don't think these reasosns are valid enough not to let cats out!

we have wheelie bins around here, no rubbish bags around, if there are they are people's responsibility and foxes in my experience are far more likey to do this.
Yes, sadly some cats do kill birds/animals. It is their nature. Not all cats do though, my cats hardly ever kill birds/animals, far too lazy and much prefer lazing about. Other animals/wildlife kill birds and some dogs off leash kill rabbits. etc.
I have a cat litter tray and an area in my garden which I make appealing for my cats to wee/poo in, and have never had any complaints about them doing so in other people's gardens. I always used to cover my children's sand pits. If you don't other animals, flies, dirt etc could get in. :?
Never heard of a cat scratching cars, enough kids do this though! :?
Most neutered tom cats are not really aggressive.I think that with a little forethought and planning the above *reasons* for NOT letting a cat outside can be avoided, apart perhaps from them killing birds.

I have a cat who has free access outside, that most of the time prefers to be inside, but my Birman would go crazy if he couldn't go outside. I decided to give my cats the choice, based on the fact that we live in a fairly good, safe area and let them decide what they want to do. I agree there is no right or wrong here, purely personal choice. I can understand why some owners prefer to keep their cats indoors, and in some ways I am envious of their peace of mind and I accept that my choice imposes certain risks. However, I feel they have the best of both worlds by being allowed outside. One thing I would worry about if they couldn't get outside is if we had a fire. :shock:

I have a dog and I would never give him free access outide, as they are completely different animals, I don't feel you can compare them.

[Moli]

My cats get out for a few hours each day, when I am home and the door is left open, if I am going out they are in, they are in at nights...I had intended keeping the two siamese in, but they wanted out, and watching them playing in the garden, couldn't keep them in all the time..They need that few hours of freedom! Although they do not go out if the weather is bad...All I have to do is rattle their catnip tin and in they all come!

[Mags]

I love to see the cats laying out in the sunshine.

Cassie never wanders far from the house and she is always locked indoors at night.

[bobbie3917]

My thoughts on these ideas are:


Rubbish bags should not be left out on streets etc. They should be in dustbins. If cats rip them then they have not been disposed of correctly in my opinion. :roll:

If they kill birds and small animals then that is the way things are. Animals KILL each other. Its what animals do.:?

Childrens sand boxes should be covered. I had a covered sandbox for this reason (also foxes could do their business in it too if left open).

Never seen a cat scratch a car.:shock:

I have an agressive cat living near me and it terrorises my two cats, but I accept this is the nature and heirarchy of the cat world. Never seen an aggressive cat attack a human :shock:

OK how about rubbish that is kept in the garden that is waiting for the day the bins go out? not every 1 has a bin in the garden. a black bag by the back door can be ripped oep by cats and they can make a right mess

what about ppls gardens should a gardener have to put up with other ppls cat poo? you can cover over your garden can you? what about kids playing in the garden they dont want to be around can poo do they?

[Hreow]

Nobody likes dealing with cat-poo, but it may not be a problem where she lives?
Biggest problem here with binbags was the sea-gulls. Big, evil-eyed bossy ones, and lots of them. We now have proper bins for everything, which has reduced the number somewhat, but their waste is still the major poo-problem here. Not nice to find your car white after just a day. We have roaming cats here, but they don't seem to use the garden as a loo. Despite a fair bit of unplanted, friable soil.

[Emm]

I'll never understand gardeners who dislike animals being in their gardens. For me that doesn't make sense. A garden is an outside area which is visited by many animals hedgehogs, badgers, foxes, squirrels - these are a few that visit my garden - I love to see them so close. Animals do not have a flushable toilet like we do so they are going to do the toilet outside. If you don't like this then why have a garden? I just don't get it. Its just part of nature - its funny how the more advanced humans become the further away from nature we become.

[Jac]

Everyone is entitled to there opinion. What works for one does not always work for another.

Very interesting post. Thank you. No C-Fur has not returned home but I dont think any of the above has happened.
Perfect timeing.

[carternm31]

Personally i thinks cats should be allowed outdoors. However Jaffa wont actually go out :roll: .

However, In this day and age with all the 'sicko's' that are killing our animals, in a way, im kind of happy that she doesn't like going out :shock: !

[Julie84]

I'll never understand gardeners who dislike animals being in their gardens. For me that doesn't make sense. A garden is an outside area which is visited by many animals hedgehogs, badgers, foxes, squirrels - these are a few that visit my garden - I love to see them so close. Animals do not have a flushable toilet like we do so they are going to do the toilet outside. If you don't like this then why have a garden? I just don't get it. Its just part of nature - its funny how the more advanced humans become the further away from nature we become.

But not everyone likes cats. Just because we love them and enjoy being around them doesn't mean someone else has to. Just because you have a garden doesn't mean you have to welcome the neighbourhood's cats round does it? Cats can be a nuisance - they can poo in gardens, dig in flower beds, lay on flowers, kill animals and leave bits/feathers around. Cats can also be charming to have round, a pleasure to spend time with, and a visitor you look forward to - but that all depends on how the person in questions feels. Just because you have a garden doesn't mean you have to love cats though, surely? Why should someone have to put up with that just because they have a garden and someone else has a free roaming cat?

I'm not sure that added anything to the the original topic, sorry! :oops:

[Fran]

But not everyone likes cats. Just because we love them and enjoy being around them doesn't mean someone else has to. Just because you have a garden doesn't mean you have to welcome the neighbourhood's cats round does it? Cats can be a nuisance - they can poo in gardens, dig in flower beds, lay on flowers, kill animals and leave bits/feathers around. Cats can also be charming to have round, a pleasure to spend time with, and a visitor you look forward to - but that all depends on how the person in questions feels. Just because you have a garden doesn't mean you have to love cats though, surely? Why should someone have to put up with that just because they have a garden and someone else has a free roaming cat?

I'm not sure that added anything to the the original topic, sorry! :oops:

In all fairness, I don't like foxes visiting my garden but they do and I have to be very careful at night to ensure my rabbits are well locked away. But I accept it as part and parcel of life. I think a lot of wildlife animals are much more destructive and nuisances than any cat - Just my opinion though

[Julie84]

how many small animals and large ones for that matter do we kill each year on the roads, pesticides etc?
...
so do many animals - what about birds they poo all over do we stop them from being outside - sand boxes should be covered up. Every weekend how many men are peeing up against a wall or shop window?
...
so do many children (and some adults!) some even write obscenities on walls.



Again, I'm not adding to to the debate particularly here but just wanted to say, just because others (humans or animals) do something it doesn't make it right or socially acceptable. :?

I wouldn't want a tom cat spraying up the wall of my house anymore than I would want a man doing it at the weekend. I'd have problems if a cat was scratching my car, just as much as if I child did it - and in both cases would have a word with the owner/parent.

I personally have no problems with outside cats (as long as they don't cause any problems). I always bend down to stroke them or talk to them and never shoo them away - but that is because I love cats and enjoy fussing them. I think generally cats outside don't cause too many problems but I do think everyone should have a choice - if you choose to not have pets I don't think you should have to put up with the actions of someone else's - if that makes sense?

I don't think badly of anyone that lets their cat out. As Snoof said, caring for a cat is not just about providing food and water and shelter, their mental health is of just as much importance and I do believe this can be affected by outside access. My boys seem afraid of the outside world and will run and hide - which fits well with the fact that I want to keep them inside. If, however, they tried to get out and were unhappy being confined, I'd have to reevaluate my decisions.

I'm not sure any of that makes much sense at all though. :? :oops:

[Julie84]

In all fairness, I don't like foxes visiting my garden but they do and I have to be very careful at night to ensure my rabbits are well locked away. But I accept it as part and parcel of life. I think a lot of wildlife animals are much more destructive and nuisances than any cat - Just my opinion though

Oh I agree, I think cats rarely cause many actual problems (I think many non pet owner issues are 'perceived' problems rather than the cat actually causing a nuisance).

But I do feel there is a difference between wild and domesticated animals. I have chosen to have a cat and I feel because I have been a fundamental part in the 'demand' for domesticated animals and am sole provider for those animals in my care I have a responsibilty to that animal and to anyone it may have an effect on.

Foxes will look for food in highly populated areas because they generally they have a grater chance of finding/catching food and are opportunistic - going for caged animals or poultry, going through rubbish bins etc. All domesticated cats in someway have been born due to human intervention (whether it was planned or the animals was simply not neutered and allowed to do as they pleased) and so should not need to hunt for food or shelter. We are responsible for them (for which the fox has nobody) and so I think should intervene (as many people do - making sure their cats are kept in at night, at dawn and dusk to discourage hunting, are fed to try and avoid scavenging etc). Many foxes are caught, shot or poisoned because of their natutral instincts/activites also. :(