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View Full Version : Older people and care - your view


Kazz
29-03-2006, 09:41 PM
The thing is though isn't it what do you do? the goverment offer little to no help with older people. Well in my small experience of them. My uncle (My Mom's brother) has been a self suficent man all his adult life, owning and running 3 garages. He and his wife divorced back in the 60's when apparently it was "shameful" and my Nan never got over it apparently (I did not realise) but his ex wife kept their two children and they refused to speak to him - hence he hasn't seen them for over 20 years maybe more. He eventually remarried and then his wife became ill with various ailments and MS he ended up caring for her full time for 6 years until she died.
Therein started the trouble he was less able to get around, and seemed/was depressed his sisters (my two aunts) who lived localy within 5 minutes of him rallied round taking him shopping/bill paying, and taking his washing etc worked fine for a couple of years then my one Aunt May died suddenly start of last year of liver cancer, leaving my other aunt Betty (my Mom lives the other side of B'ham to him) and does not drive neither does my Dad (due to age) but I started taking her over and we spread the "help" between us. Then my Aunt Betty was diagnosed with a cancer - meaning she had to have chemo then a big op no further chemo still undergoing and now its spread to her bones:( , her daughters did help with my Uncle but one dropped out of going because of his dog (a Yorkie) he does yap and has gone for her and my other cousin just said she wouldn't go any longer as he was shouting at her (no idea why) she is a nice woman also because of their Mom obviously taking their priorities.
Leaving my Mom and myself. Now with my Mom's health problems I sometimes go alone he lives an hour and half from me with no traffic, so thats 3 hours at least travelling at least once a week usually twice or three times, to do his shopping, his cleaning, his gardening, bring his washing back, pay his bills, make sure he has meals sorted, no problems, his doctors, barbers, chiropodists, on a Friday night I drive the hour and half there get him fish and chips, mushy peas from the chippy for his tea. He adores this Friday treat I spend 1/2hour there then drive back home 3 hour round trip for fish and chips:roll: .
Now he won't let anyone in, can't walk now without help, and now won't go in the ambulance car to the hospital so I have to arrnage those around my day off.
He also now says someone is listening in to his telephone conversations, and he won;t turn the TV on in case they (whoever they are) can see into the room through the telly. Whereas other days he is fine and dandy within his limits.
But he won't move to a home or sell and buy a bungalow making his own life easier with no stairs he is happy (course he is) muggins here is legging around like a nutter:roll: but he is getting confused now calls me Margaret (my Moms name) or Betty. Tells me May hasnt been (course she hasn't she died last year) but tells me Betty brought so and so which is wrong it was me. Also he says Barbara (the other sister) phoned him (she died in 1971)

So what do you do? let him stay where he is for as long as he can and put your own life on semi hold? or put him in a home he would hate?

Karen

Hreow
29-03-2006, 09:54 PM
That is a very tough call.... The option you could come to terms with? I had a great-aunt who was dementing. Would sometimes not recognise the place she had lived for the last fifty years and would plead us to stay as she was afraid that the people who lived there would come back and where would she go then. In the end she had to go to a home, as she would leave the gas on when she'd been planning on making a cup of coffee and then forgotten. We couldn't let her blow herself and twlve neighbours up, and we couldn't be with her every single minute of the day and night. Saving lives wasn't any consolation, it was dreadful for all of us. :-(
Not much help to you.... Just know that the solution you find will be the best you could do at the time, and please go as easy on yourself as you can.
<hug>

EmmaG
29-03-2006, 09:55 PM
Hmmm a very difficult one Karen, I personally wouldn't put my life on hold, but then again I would do everything possible for him but he does have to help himself at the same time (as long as he has got all of his marbles of course) and if he wants his Independence then their has got to be some compromises on his part?

I also see the other side as my mum runs a care home and it is very nice, very pleasant (she does rule the place with a iron hand though as she doesn't put up with any rubbish from the staff ;) ) and all of the residents are very well looked after. It is a shame there has been a lot of bad press over care homes in the past :(

Fran
29-03-2006, 10:03 PM
Very very difficult situation Kazz. I have had experience of this both on a personal level and professional one too. The biggy factor is his safety. If he is 'safe' to be left on his own and that is his desire then I would do everything in my power to leave him as he is. The main problem comes when and if it becomes unsafe for him to be alone. Very difficult decisions ahead Kazz..and I don't envy you having to make them :( There is definitely no wrong or right in these situations and each situation like this is is so individual and has to be acted upon on accordingly. Really hope you find a satisfactory outcome to this Kazz {{{Hugs}}}

Kazz
29-03-2006, 10:08 PM
When I say on hold I don't literally mean on hold as such, but you do worry how he will get food etc,:roll: he forgets to take thing out of the freezer etc etc. And puts freezer thing in the fridge and vice versa.:roll:
He forgets he's on the phone and leaves you hanging:roll: , rings you then asks you why you've rung?

I always take him out for lunch when we go shopping - usually he sits in Sainsbury's having a meal with my Mom while I do the shopping etc. My uncle Arthur his brother took him last week and Arnie asked for another cup of coffee, U.Arthur stood up to pay and Uncle Arnie said Karen doesn't pay:shock: Lord knows how he thinks I got the meals drinks, etc.

Hreow
29-03-2006, 10:08 PM
There are some really good homes out there, and some people take to them. Another of my great-aunts possitively blossomed. A few don't. My Nan f.i. wouldn't have, being too steeped in self-sufficiency and not being a burden to others. Luckily she never had to. Your uncle sounds something like that. Maybe the best solution is the compromise Emma suggested? Can you use mild emotional blackmail to get him to move closer at least?

Fran
29-03-2006, 10:14 PM
Kazz...does he get any home help? or other help from social services? Perhaps would be worth looking into?

Kazz
29-03-2006, 10:18 PM
The house is his safety blanket I know that he was amongst the first (along with his first wife) to move into that grove back in 1940's post war a nice cul de sac he knows everyone and they know him but the majority of his friends have moved away/died and now they are 80% families who are nice but not got time for him - they say hello etc but to them he's the old chap at the end of the grove:? thats all. And I wouldn't/couldn't expect them to do more.

Anyhow at the moment we are fine, the summer should make it easier (longer days):roll:

Hreow
29-03-2006, 10:20 PM
I can see that. You're a strong woman.

Kazz
29-03-2006, 10:20 PM
Kazz...does he get any home help? or other help from social services? Perhaps would be worth looking into?

Nope he won't let them in :roll: back when Ethel his 2nd wife was ill social services and a health worker (I am told) went in and started making a list of the property and its contents - Uncle Arnie is convinced they have this "list" and are watching his bank account etc etc.:? so won't let anyone in at all. In one respect I like that but he lets people he thinks he knows in :(

His fridge/freezer broke down last year and Uncle Arthur and I went to get another (exactly the same) so not to confuse him. Arranged for the council to come and collect the old f/f and left it on the front they came to collect in 2 days later and U.Arnie talked the chap into taking it round the back (through the house there is no other way) so the F/F is now in the back garden (he wats to put it in the shed. Lord knows why you can't get in the shed anyhow. But he also had the other two fridge freezers off the bloke. When I asked why/how and what he's playing at - he just smiles and taps his nose.:roll: Lord help me now there are 2 fridge freezers and 1 fridge in his back garden.

I just thank God he hasn't got a washing machine :roll:

Karen

Mags
29-03-2006, 10:41 PM
I can understand the worry you are going through Kazz. After my mum died my dad went downhill rapidly. He couldn't look after himself properly and used to get blackouts. I don't drive so I used to catch 2 buses to his house Monday -Saturday.....it took me 1 and a half hours. On the Sunday my hubby used to fetch him to our house for the day. I arranged Meals on Wheels for him as there was no way I would have had time to cook for him. Like you, he was reliant on me for everything....shopping, hospital visits, cleaning etc. But he was my father and I was determined to look after him.....it even got to the stage when I had to bath him and then I knew all his dignity had gone.
To cut a long story short, he got worse and was a danger to himself and a worry to me when I was not with him. I used to dread going over the following day, never knowing what I would find. The day finally arrived when I went there and found him collapsed on the floor.....he was taken to hospital and was in there for 3 months before I was told they could do no more for him and I should look for a Nursing Home as he needed 24 hour care. It broke my heart to have to do it but he needed watching all the time. Like you, I had to put my life on hold as there was no-one else to look after him.......but I suffered for it after. So think very carefully what you are going to do and explore all the avenues to get as much help as you possibly can to help care for your uncle...
Take care.....

Snoof
30-03-2006, 12:50 AM
Kazz, this is a difficult decision. I wish I had something useful to add, but unfortunately I have no idea what to say, so I just want to offer you hugs and my hopes that things will come to a resolution :(

dinahsmum
30-03-2006, 08:56 AM
Oh Karen - I think the right answer to this is the one that you will come up with. No idea what it will be - that is such an idividual thing :( Remember that number one on the 'people for Karen to consider' list, should be Karen.

This is such a difficult societal issue.

Medical science is apparently allowing us to live many more years but also giving us extra years of frailty/ill health; not sure that is such a bargain.

Edited to add:
In general I don't think it's good for older people, who have been used to being in a family/relationship to be alone.
Often, older people are incredibly stubborn/mule-headed about change (bit like children) but actually adapt relatively easily if it becomes necessary.

Julie84
30-03-2006, 10:11 AM
In general I don't think it's good for older people, who have been used to being in a family/relationship to be alone.
Often, older people are incredibly stubborn/mule-headed about change (bit like children) but actually adapt relatively easily if it becomes necessary.

I think this is a very important point. Change is very scary and it is human nature to try and avoid it, but we do all cope and we do often realise it was for the better and our fears are alleviated. I personally think it is better to make choices, while they are still 'choices' - don't wait until it gets to a position where you feel your hand is forced by circumstances.

I'm so sorry Karen, you're in a really horrible situation. :( I can't even begin to imagine.

Have you considered warden controlled housing? It would mean your Uncle having to move from his much loved home but he would still be able to remain fairly independent with his own property and the added security (and peace of mind for you) that there was someone on site and on hand 24 hours a day.

CJK
30-03-2006, 11:36 AM
I been there done that, kind of thing. At 20 years old iw as in my final 6 months of nurse training, my gran was on her own having had my grandad die 10 years before. She had a stroke, and was poorly. I moved into her small flat to help take care of her. Mostly doing her shopping, and housework. It was a tough call, studying, working and looking after her. But we managed.

When I was 14 my parents took in our great gran after other family members have pulled a fast one on her. They moved her into thier home,gother to pay for a massive extension to their home, spent all her money and dumped her int he most awfull nursing home, where she got covered in bed sores in a matter of a few weeks, and in one month went from walking to being totally bedridden, and never walked again.
My parents were so upset how she was treated they took her in. We had help, district nurses calling everyday etc. But i'll never forget how hard it was on my parents, and again me, i came home fromschool to see to her as much as i could, my aprents came home from work. My dad carried her up and down the stairs etc.

In the end the decision came she had to go into a care home. It was ahrd, but we founbd her a superb one where it was a connection of small one bed flats, all within a complex, with nursing and care staff on duty. So she had her own home but with the care she needed all the time.

It is a ahrd decision, but it is VERY hard to care for somebody full time, even with help.

Donna
30-03-2006, 05:59 PM
Difficult decision Kazz. Sorry to hear that you have to sort this out.

I would say (although never been in a situation like this) that I would try to get him into a care home. Whether he wants to or not, he is not always thinking right, so how does he know what is the best for him? He will adapt and you never know, might enjoy being there.

The other option is to buy a place in a retirement village. We have a couple on the market at work at the moment, and all the property owners get a check in the morning, and there is someone on site constantly for emergencies/help. There are communal gardens and a communal lounge for company, but you have your own place if you do not want to socialise. They also have people coming in for visits, like hairdressers, chiropodists etc.

I would try to go down that route, as you cannot do this all by yourself.

Rosie
31-03-2006, 11:20 AM
My dad was a fantastic man - he died at the age of 92, did everything for himself and asked no one for anything. He soldiered on and we did not know he was ill until he eventually had to concede and go in hospital where we discovered he had secondary cancer and he died within 6 weeks. He never let on to anyone that he was ill and up until he went into hospital he was walking up to 3 miles a day because he liked cakes from a particular shop!

I only hope I am like him when I get older, he was never moody always had a smile on his face and a cuddle for me went I went round (which was not often enough in retrospect). In some ways it was a blessing because I really am not a caring sharing type of person, especially when it comes to illness. I greatly admire people that can look after the elderly but it would scare me to bits sadly.

deester
31-03-2006, 12:53 PM
Kazz its a tough one and like you say with very little help you have now been left with most of the work. Maybe a different approach would be to put yourself in his shoes and ask yourself what you would reasonably expect somebody to do for you. I could imagine you being such a caring and thoughtful person you wouldn't want to put on any one person half as much. Not sure if this will help at all but I think too much is expected of you especially given the distance involved. He may be stubborn but it may be a necesity for him to accept help from others. Wish you the best of luck working something out.

dinahsmum
31-03-2006, 01:34 PM
The whole question of aging, living longer, pensions etc etc is absolutely huge, isn't it? If the world (or western civilisation) survives, it must be one of the biggest problems to face western countries. I tend to think it's becoming a little like the issues at the other end of life (test-tube babies, babies with 4 parents (Huh?), abortion at 24 weeks/premature babies surviving at 24 weeks etc etc etc ). Just because science can it doesn't mean science should. What is the point of 'surviving' to 95 if you're not 'living' (you know what I mean) for the last 15? Should 70 year olds have to worry about the well-being of their 90+ parent(s)? Should people who don't have their own children till 35 - 40 have to cope with teenage children and frail or mentally incompetent parents at the same time? Should the state do more? Will taxes cover the cost?

If the grim reaper came to me today and offered me the choice of passing, quietly and peacefully, in my sleep tonight or living another 40 years, with 15 or 20 of them widowed, unable to cope for myself, unable to leave the house unaccompanied, failing sight, failing hearing, failing memory, maybe incontinent, I'd think very hard and might well come down on the side of leaving you all tonight.:(

Big questions, and we probably shouldn't shy away, but it's not easy, is it?

Julie84
31-03-2006, 02:50 PM
Interesting point about older parents struggling to care for teenage children because of their age.

My mum had me when she was very young - when I'm 70, she will be 87 (if we are both still alive of course) so it's unlikely I'd ever be able to care for my parents even if I wanted/needed to.

Jac
31-03-2006, 03:49 PM
Kazz, this is a hard one for you. But, at the end of the day it is you. Is there nobody else that can take the desission away from you? I think you already know, but as someone else said whatever you decide it will be the RIGHT one.
You have a life and from what I know about you from talking here, you keep giving bits of you to everyone that needs it. Soon there will not be enough bits to go round.
You have to look at the hole picture and safty for your uncle but.....you know that.
We had (my mum and me) a similar situation a few years ago. George was a "friend" of my mums. She met him after my dad died. She wouldn't marry him so he went in the huff. Anyway someone phoned to say they hadn't seen him for a while. To cut a long story short we went to see him. He was a mess, Walking about in his underpants, no food in the house but his brother was visiting him ( his brother had been dead over 20 years). We called the Doc who at first didn't want involved. After alot of phone calls he was finally admitted to hospital and dementia diagnosed. He is in a care home, quite happy although doesnt have a clue who we are but is polite enough not to let on:lol:.
But at the end of the day he is Safe, fed and sometimes clean:roll: He refuses to be washed.
Its a hard one. Will be thinking about you.

CathyW
08-04-2006, 08:14 PM
wish u luck sounds like hard work.
b4 my dad was taken ill, i noticed he was having probs getting around his flat, so i got in touch with soacial services, just wanted someone to pop in a couple of times aday just to see if he was ok. but there was a waiting list,well months went by, and we get a call my dad was found in a gas filled flat, he had had a fall while trying to light the cooker, he was there for 6 hours. well after 6 weeks my dad died, the day after my dad died he got a letter from social services saying they where coming to do an assement on him to see if he needed help, well i got on the phone and let rip at them told them because of their incompetance my dad was dead, told them they had murserd my dad.
found out also that my step sisiter was charging my dad 5-00 an hour to a bit of cleaning, i spoken to her since that day, i also found out she had been stealing money off my dad.

Donna
08-04-2006, 08:16 PM
wish u luck sounds like hard work.
b4 my dad was taken ill, i noticed he was having probs getting around his flat, so i got in touch with soacial services, just wanted someone to pop in a couple of times aday just to see if he was ok. but there was a waiting list,well months went by, and we get a call my dad was found in a gas filled flat, he had had a fall while trying to light the cooker, he was there for 6 hours. well after 6 weeks my dad died, the day after my dad died he got a letter from social services saying they where coming to do an assement on him to see if he needed help, well i got on the phone and let rip at them told them because of their incompetance my dad was dead, told them they had murserd my dad.
found out also that my step sisiter was charging my dad 5-00 an hour to a bit of cleaning, i spoken to her since that day, i also found out she had been stealing money off my dad.

Thats a very sad tale Bm:cry:

samwise
08-04-2006, 08:25 PM
This is a very hard situation.
The only experience I have is with my step-grandmother. She had mild dementia and was not coping too well at home. Her GP got the community psychiatric nurse involved and she was brilliant! All services were organised very quickly, home help, meals on wheels, day care (as she wanted) etc etc.
I do think services vary as to where you live unfortunately. She recieved little support whilst in London, but when she moved to Dorset to be closer to family, services were provided and offered very quickly.
Will be thinking of you!

dandysmom
08-04-2006, 09:08 PM
This is a dreadful situation for you, I'm so sorry. Have no experience with this: my Mom died when I was 25, and my Dad when I was 34. Does he see a doctor? Could you possibly have a talk with the doctor to see if maybe some of his problems are due to medications (this happens a lot with old folks). The retirement village sounds as if it might be acceptable, espercially if he could keep his privacy. Of course he's going to resist it, but you are stretching yourself so thin....you need some help!

Mags
09-04-2006, 10:26 AM
So sorry to hear about your Dad BM:(

From my experience, if you need help any time from Social Services it is best to go through your doctor first who will make arrangements for any assistance needed.

Fran
09-04-2006, 10:34 AM
wish u luck sounds like hard work.
b4 my dad was taken ill, i noticed he was having probs getting around his flat, so i got in touch with soacial services, just wanted someone to pop in a couple of times aday just to see if he was ok. but there was a waiting list,well months went by, and we get a call my dad was found in a gas filled flat, he had had a fall while trying to light the cooker, he was there for 6 hours. well after 6 weeks my dad died, the day after my dad died he got a letter from social services saying they where coming to do an assement on him to see if he needed help, well i got on the phone and let rip at them told them because of their incompetance my dad was dead, told them they had murserd my dad.
found out also that my step sisiter was charging my dad 5-00 an hour to a bit of cleaning, i spoken to her since that day, i also found out she had been stealing money off my dad.

Oh BM...how awful :(

Kazz
09-04-2006, 12:47 PM
See thats just the sort of tale that scares me. That plus "horror" stories of these carers that "prey" on older vunerable people - maybe I worry to much.

Anyhow an update Uncle Arnie has phoned 4 times in the last 10 days or so to my Mom betwen 2.00am and 4.30am waking her up and telling her he had is unable to get out of the house as "they" have tied the house up with telephone cable and coaxial cable well I have made one journey in the early hours to confirm this is not true. :roll: but you have to check don't you.

Also to make matters worse he has started to put the phone down when we say his name. He is convinced he is being bugged or his phone tapped. I doubt that is the case but we have asked GPO to check (see that I fell back into old terminology:roll: ) BT I mean to check the line and nothing they started to "vet his calls" you know ask who is calling etc but no one but us so far :roll:

Not sure what to do with him next we have a Doctors appointment next week after easter so wait till then.

Karen

Mags
09-04-2006, 12:50 PM
Sorry to hear that Kazz, it must be an awful worry for you. Best to wait and see what the doctor says after Easter....

Donna
09-04-2006, 01:33 PM
Hope the doctors can offer some good advice for you Kazz. It is very hard for you to deal with all this plus all of your normal stuff to do. I know it sounds harsh, but he needs to be in a home where he is looked after 24 hours a day.

Kazz
09-04-2006, 01:38 PM
Thanks all Yes I know but you don't want to push to much do you - he is my Uncle not my Dad - you sometimes feel like you take the pressure of foos bills etc but at the end of the day.........do people (family) think you are pushing yourself forward.....although I don't see them taking him to the barbers etc etc etc.

Karen

Donna
09-04-2006, 01:43 PM
Unless EVERY member of the family is willing to do a slot in the day to look after him so he is always supervised, then I dont see why you shouldnt air your thoughts if you are doing more than others.

Older people are just as difficult and can cause a nuisance as younger people tend to get labeled with. My son yesterday was grabbed by an older man as he was annoyed he and his friends were playing near his house. My son is not the sort of child to be a nuisance (he is very quiet and timid) but this man grabbed Sean around the neck and lifted him up and shouted at Sean's Indian friend "black b*******d. He tried to throw Sean in the house, but he punched and kicked and got away.

The ex called the police and he has been cautioned - but what can you do about people like that??? Is he ill?? Or is he just like that?? I dont know.

Either way, he should not be left to his own devices.

Jac
11-04-2006, 09:03 PM
Oh Kazz, just caught up with this. I think you will find after the Doc's appt things will move fast (If you want them too)
You do need support. Take all the help that's given. ( talking fro experiance) I do think youknow that but your looking for conformation, go with your gut feeling. xx Jac