Torbies/Tortie tabbies

[Booktigger]

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. I am really interested in the genetics of these. I remember when I first read about them, I couldn't picture them in my head, and since then I seem to have seen loads of them!!! What is puzzling me is that there are some cats that at first glance obviously look like a tortie, and then I spot the tabby M on their forehead - does that automatically make them a torbie?? Or is there a certain amount of colouring/stripes they have to have?

[Mags]

BT...here is a link about torties that I found quite interesting...
http://messybeast.com/tricolours.htm

[Booktigger]

Cheers - have read that (along with most of the Messybeast site), but seem unable to get my head round it, and it doesn't really seem to explain how they get tabby patches with tortie colours.

[bobbie3917]

good link Mags
i would of had blue/cream torbies if Scarlott had had an girls

[bobbie3917]

hi BT i think its saying that all reds are tabbies so thats how you get torbies but only if the red colour shows though a lot. I think lol its hard to get your head around LOL

[Donna]

Thats a good site Mags - but bit hard to follow!!!!

[Mags]

I'll just accept Cassie for what she is......I'm afraid I don't understand genetics at all!:lol:

[Sweet]

I will join you in that one Mags, Violet is Violet x x x

[dandysmom]

hi BT i think its saying that all reds are tabbies so thats how you get torbies but only if the red colour shows though a lot. I think lol its hard to get your head around LOL
I haven't checked the link yet, but am going to throw in my 2 cents worth: all tabbies aren't red, we all have seen or owned brown or blue tabbies...blue is the dilute of black, and cream the dilute of red...my Leia is a blue torbie.a dilute brindled tortoiseshell with tabby markings and a very ringed (tabby) tail, but she doesn't have an M on her forehead. If you click on me in the members list, there is a picture (not very good) of Leia. Genetics is fascinating, but really complicated:roll:

[bobbie3917]

i didnt say all tabbies are red i said all reds are tabbies i.e. even a solid red is a tabby some how. i own a blue tabby so why would i say that?

please reread what i said and you will see

hi BT i think its saying that all reds are tabbies so thats how you get torbies but only if the red colour shows though a lot. I think lol its hard to get your head around LOL

I haven't checked the link yet, but am going to throw in my 2 cents worth: all tabbies aren't red, we all have seen or owned brown or blue tabbies...blue is the dilute of black, and cream the dilute of red...my Leia is a blue torbie.a dilute brindled tortoiseshell with tabby markings and a very ringed (tabby) tail, but she doesn't have an M on her forehead. If you click on me in the members list, there is a picture (not very good) of Leia. Genetics is fascinating, but really complicated:roll:

[bobbie3917]

Quoted from the link there words not mine Thank you

"The basic tortoiseshell combination is black and red. Because red does not occur as a true solid colour, the "red" patches are actually red tabby and this will be more apparent on some cats than on others."

[Kay]

I found this very interesting but I do find it hard to believe that all red's are tabbies. If this is the case why does every cat registering body, that I am aware of, have seperate registration numbers for Self Reds and Red Tabbies in all the breeds that have reds and red tabbies? Many solid red's have ghost markings in their coats as kittens and also occasionally when they are moulting but in full adult coat they are clear, I am talking about Persians now.

[bobbie3917]

its the same in Maine coons as well Kay they are said to have a solid red so i dont get it either

[Kay]

Hi Nat.

My tortie girls dad is a red self and has never in his entire life produced a tabby kitten. In my dealings with genetics I understood that to produce a tabby kitten there had to be at least one tabby parent. This is what applies in colourpoints so can't see it being different in other breeds. To produce a tortie-tabby you must have the same colours as for just a tortie eg. Black dad and red mum but with one parent at least being a tabby therefore either a brown-tabby dad (as there aren't black tabbies:roll: :roll: ) and a redself mum or a black self dad and a red tabby mum.

Does that make sense:-D :-D

[bobbie3917]

it does and thats what i also thought and sort of new
i was just going off that link

[Kay]

Glad it made sense.

It makes you wonder how can all the registering bodies can be wrong and this woman right doesn't it.

I think I will stick to what I have been told it seems to work for me and all my friends who breed and have never had a tabby out of none tabby parents even if they are red.

[bobbie3917]

yeah i agree with you LOL

[dandysmom]

i didnt say all tabbies are red i said all reds are tabbies i.e. even a solid red is a tabby some how. i own a blue tabby so why would i say that?

please reread what i said and you will see


Whoops, sorry, did mis-read that!:roll: Thanks for the correction!:roll:

[dandysmom]

BT...here is a link about torties that I found quite interesting...
http://messybeast.com/tricolours.htm
Mags, thanks for that link...fascinating.

[Rosie]

Is it true and the majority of torties are female and that male ones are very rare?

[Booktigger]

Rosie - it is, and that link explains it better than I Can!!

[Kay]

It is Rosie and any males will almost certainly be sterile as they are an abnormality.

[Snoof]

But there's a similar thing with all-red females, isn't there?

[bobbie3917]

yes it is rear to have a red tabby (or not) girl

[John]

I think I can feel a headache coming on:cry: :cry: :cry:

[Kay]

yes it is rear to have a red tabby (or not) girl

It isn't rare in Persians. I had 2 red self girls last year and only one red boy.