Annoying habbit or is it?

[Elaine]

Hi,
My old crf kitty, Winston, has recently started this annoying habbit of clawing at the bed clothes in the middle of the night. Its a bit like some one constantly prodding at you and disturbs my sleep alot. He does sometimes cry out in the night, his thyroid has been tested and came back negative for over active. I have put his crying down to a touch of senility, possibly a little deafness too and waking up suddenly a little confused. Now normally when he cries, he settles down very quickly in my arms and we cuddle till morning but this clawing at the bed covers is very annoying and I try to settle him down as normal but he just gets up and starts all over again. I am knackered, and would really like at least a few restfull nights.
Just wondered if any one elses cat does this or if any one has any ideas as to why he does it and any possible solution.

[Fran]

Elaine, I am sorry to hear you having a few problems with Winston :( I bet you are shattered :( I do not know the significance of the scratching at the bed covers but do know that crying out in the night can signify thyroid trouble. How long since he had the tests done? Perhaps another trip to the vet is inorder and if the last blood test wasn't too recent a repeat thyroid test? Do let us know how he gets on...

[Mags]

Cassie often claws at the bed covers in the middle of the night Elaine.....I just say a firm 'Lie down' to her and she stops straight away. I'm sure she understands that command! When she does it, it is like paddling with her paws....

[Elaine]

His last thyroid test was at the begining of November, which was fine. He is due blood tests again at the end of this month for his kidney values etc. He doesnt cry as much as he used to. I recently changed vets because they always talked so negatively about his condition, and I personally dont think he was getting the best treatment, but thats another issue. Old vet always said he had an overactive thyroid and couldnt understand why he always managed to maintain his weight, they did do the blood test initially at the same time as he was diagnosed with CRF, almost 2 years ago. New vet tested and it was negative for an over active thyroid and they couldnt find anything in his notes from the old vet to indicate that they had tested for it in the first instance. He was never given any treatment for it as the old vet said it was doing him a favour by giving him an appetite.
I feel exhausted coz i am not getting a good nights sleep but I really dont want to be grumpy with my old boy because, whatever the reason and I am sure there must be one, he doesnt deserve it.
My O/H reckons i have a built in cuddle device for him when I am sleeping LOL, he says he has come to bed several times when I have been sleeping and as soon as Winston jumps up beside me, my arms imediately wrap around him and he settles there being cuddled.

[Kazz]

Hi Elaine

I don't suppose he is "kneading" I will copy from a book, here

"The kneading movement is associated deep in an adult cats mind with a pleasurable and satisfying experience, and in adult life when happy it will repeat these kneading movements with its paws to express happiness. There is nothing much you can do about a kneading cat, kneading is too deeply ingrained as an instinct for remonstration to be effective."

I just wondered if this was a misplaced "kneading response" he is happy warm secure and above all close by to you therefore extremly happy. I ask because Oz used to do something very similar and evetually after 7- 8 years :roll: I started to learn my lesson and made sure there was quilt between my bear flesh and his claws other than that I learnt to sleep through eventually. See he cured me eventually and now I miss it Cleo never does it, but she does get close.

Just a suggestion, an idea. Hope you get some sleep soon.

[Mags]

Hi Elaine

I don't suppose he is "kneading" I will copy from a book, here

"The kneading movement is associated deep in an adult cats mind with a pleasurable and satisfying experience, and in adult life when happy it will repeat these kneading movements with its paws to express happiness. There is nothing much you can do about a kneading cat, kneading is too deeply ingrained as an instinct for remonstration to be effective."

I just wondered if this was a misplaced "kneading response" he is happy warm secure and above all close by to you therefore extremly happy. I ask because Oz used to do something very similar and evetually after 7- 8 years :roll: I started to learn my lesson and made sure there was quilt between my bear flesh and his claws other than that I learnt to sleep through eventually. See he cured me eventually and now I miss it Cleo never does it, but she does get close.

Just a suggestion, an idea. Hope you get some sleep soon.
That's the same as Cassie Kazz.....but I call it paddling!:lol:

[Elaine]

Thats interesting, I wonder if it is indeed what he is doing. He has never done it before now, or atleast not on me directly but he does do this in his many beds before settling down.
Poor old sod, I am always looking for something to be wrong with him, maybe i have munchausen by proxy as my O/H always likes to tell me LOL.
That makes me feel a bit better, and hopefully more able to cope with the harrasment during the night:) . I would ofcourse dealy love for him to be happy and secure with me by his side.

[Elaine]

Oooh, for got to say thanx to you all for your suggestions etc.

[Mags]

You're very welcome Elaine!:-P

[Donna]

Was gonna say mine do the kneading thingy, but only on my faux fur things!!! Think they think it is their mummy!!!! Read in the book that they do the kneading on their mother when they are feeding to stimulate the milk flow and they never forget it and when they do it in later life it is a happy thing for them.

[Kazz]

Hi Maybe I am not as daft as I am cabbage looking.

And Elaine I know exactly what you mean " Poor old sod, I am always looking for something to be wrong with him, maybe i have munchausen by proxy as my O/H always likes to tell me LOL."
Its hard to see normal progression as anything with anything but the glass is empty syndrome, but believe me you will know when something is wrong because you are obviously so in tune with him and he you.

Let the daft old Soul carry on kneading. You will adapt especially if you remember it could be worse he could be doing and Oscar and crawling under cars and sovering you in car oil :roll: or mud.:roll:

Take care and he is doing it only doing it because he feels safe which in itself is a wonderful gift.

Take care Karen

[Elaine]

If it is the case that he is showing me he is happy and contented, you'd think he'd let me know at a more convenient hour of the day instead of 2am, 3am, 4am, 5am:) I guess thats just men for you;) Wonder how Winston would feel about a little bit of bondage through the night:shock: Or perhaps some babies mittens would be much more reasonable:D
Thanx again guys:oops:

[Kazz]

I used to give Oz a poke with the sharp stick I keep handy for such occasions ;)

[Donna]

I used to give Oz a poke with the sharp stick I keep handy for such occasions ;)

You must have a sharp stick in EVERY room Kazz!!! It always seems to be at hand!!:-P

[Elaine]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Night night
Am off to settle down with my happy old Kneady puss;)

[Fran]

Nite Elaine..hope you get a better night x

[Fran]

I used to give Oz a poke with the sharp stick I keep handy for such occasions ;)

:lol: @ Kazz!!

[Kazz]

Night all.

[EmmaG]

Arthur kneads me a lot, especially when he comes to bed, he will walk to the top of the bed cuddle down beside me, kneads me for about half and hour (tends to dribble as well :) ) and when he has had enough attention he will go to the bottom of the bed and fall asleep.

I have seen Bronwyn sit in her cat bed kneading it like crazy...that is so funny, she is such a little dear :)

[EmmaG]

whoops night all :)

[bobbie3917]

well your all lucky, Minx does this and i can live with it as i am used to it now from Scarlott (and sometimes its even nice when its on your back and there is a blanket between us :lol: ) BUT Minx also licks the blanket and she makes such a nose that is does keep me up (and comeing from the 1 that can sleep though anything thats bad)
so now when ever she coes to bed with me she can sleep where she likes as long as there is no licking. as soon as she starts she is either put on the floor or if she is on my back then i just keep moving until she gives up. she is getting good as of the last few nights in only taken about 30 mins to stop her doing it :roll:

[Kay]

Hi Elaine

I don't suppose he is "kneading" I will copy from a book, here

"The kneading movement is associated deep in an adult cats mind with a pleasurable and satisfying experience, and in adult life when happy it will repeat these kneading movements with its paws to express happiness. There is nothing much you can do about a kneading cat, kneading is too deeply ingrained as an instinct for remonstration to be effective."

I just wondered if this was a misplaced "kneading response" he is happy warm secure and above all close by to you therefore extremly happy. I ask because Oz used to do something very similar and evetually after 7- 8 years :roll: I started to learn my lesson and made sure there was quilt between my bear flesh and his claws other than that I learnt to sleep through eventually. See he cured me eventually and now I miss it Cleo never does it, but she does get close.

Just a suggestion, an idea. Hope you get some sleep soon.

Angel and Tilly both do it to me when they come on my knee but not anyone elses. :shock: :shock: :shock:

[dinahsmum]

Hi Elaine
I finally banished one of my two old ladies to preserve all our sanities. Here's a link to a previous thread http://www.catpages.co.uk/talkcats/showthread.php?t=3479&highlight=Heated
So you see, my Tizzie (17+) now sleeps in her own bed in the kitchen.
I was soooo reluctant, in case it was a really mean thing to do, but I must say that after only about 6 weeks it has 'transformed our lives' :roll: . The heated pad keeps her cosy (and asleep) all night and means the humans get their 8 hours too! She is able to eat more and now actually starts to make moves towards her bed as the evening progresses.
Maybe you will have to harden your heart too - I was apprehensive but would recommend it thoroughly. Good luck.:)
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_18.gif

[Elaine]

Hi again all. Winston was not quite as bad last night but did wake me once or twice. It does appear to be more of a clawing kind of action rather than a kneeding or treading one. It may look like that though as he is not as steady on his legs as he used to be. Its a bit like he were playing with a toy mouse only he is clawing at the bed covers and pulling at them. He does also have a heat pad, which usually ends up keeping my feet nice and toasty. I also put the electric blanket on for a bit before I go to bed, pampered old puss or what:) . Dont know if I have the heart to make him sleep in another room, I am afraid he would feel like he was being punnished and at his time of life I wouldnt want him to feel pushed out. Especially as we are already having problems with Eva and Bernie. The bedroom is where Winston spends most of his time and is therefore his domain, would it not be cruel of me to take this away from him?

[dinahsmum]

The bedroom is where Winston spends most of his time and is therefore his domain, would it not be cruel of me to take this away from him?

Mmm, yes, maybe.:roll:
Oh dear - sorry I wasn't much help :(

[Fran]

post deleted...just read that Winston does already have a heat pad. Was going to suggest him having one in the bedroom

[Donna]

Dont know if I have the heart to make him sleep in another room, I am afraid he would feel like he was being punnished and at his time of life I wouldnt want him to feel pushed out. Especially as we are already having problems with Eva and Bernie. The bedroom is where Winston spends most of his time and is therefore his domain, would it not be cruel of me to take this away from him?

Could you not get a nice cat bed for him and put it in your bedroom with the heat pad in his bed and "encourage" him to lay there rather than on your bed???

[Elaine]

There are 4 cat beds in the bedroom, 2 are on the bed, one is under the bed, which is where Eva likes to sleep, and another ontop of the blanket box by the window. The 2 on the bed are his favourites but they are too big to fit under the bed and I think by the window is too cold for him this time of the year. I may try experimanting with his beds though, by placing them around the room with the heat pad but I have a feeling he just wants to be with me.
I mentioned this on another site and somebody said they have seen this behaviour before and it signals the start of the end, felt that was a bit of a rash thing to say.
I am knackered and it can be very annoying but I do love Winston to bits. Should it be the case that he feels more secure with me then I am just gonna have to bite the bullet and take what comes. Maybe I should start going to bed when I get home from work and start my day at 3am LOL

[Kazz]

If its more clawing than kneading I don't suppose he does it to certain "bed cover does he? maybe its the material he's objecting too? Just a thought and have you tried moving his favourite beds somewhere other than on the bed? then maybe he will get the hint and move there himself just a sugggestion.

And if he wants to be with you try my old trick when I get them a new bed;) put a teeshirt you have worn in bed or during the day the scent of you should be enough to "comfort him" and if you think about it sleeping in the bedroom is the one place your scent is in everything.

Karen

[Elaine]

Gonna try absolutely everything that has been suggested coz i cannt function anymore on the lack of sleep. Am so tired today I could just cry:cry: . I am one of those people who really cannt go without a full quota of sleep.
Thanx for all your suggestions, I'll let you know how it all goes but first I have to get my head down for a few hours. Thanx again guys.

[janey83]

We use to keep tigger locked in the kitchen at night coz if we didnt he would wake us up!
But because since it started to go cold we have just let him sleep anywhere. and he does wake us up in the middle of the night by either meowing or clawing at my bed covers! but thats anly coz he wants to go out. i dont think ive had a full nights sleep for like 3-4 months!!!

[Donna]

What about putting a throw over your duvet - I have a faux fur throw which my cats love to lay on. Maybe kitty might find that really comforting and snuggle up on it rather than attack it... Just a thought....

[Elaine]

Have got qutie a lot of food for thought here, thanx. I am going to try most things and I like the idea of a throw too. A friend of mine has also suggested, due to his age and his kidney function, that he may wake up disorientated and want to pee and so maybe the clawing represents his litter box behaviour but as he is waking me up and I am distracting him by cuddling him, he forgets that maybe he wanted to pee for a short time. Think I will get him booked in for his blood tests sooner rather than later to check his kidney function and talk to them about his dementia. Would hate to think I have missed something medical.

[CJK]

oh look, it's that bloody woman again!!! lol

how's winston doing now elaine?
i hope he's ok.

[Elaine]

Here I am again;)
Now I am wondering if he was telling me it was time to clip his claws??? I did clip them last night and he did wake me several times by meowing but not by clawing at the covers. He has a litter box in the bedroom and I heard him use it several times so I dont think it is what my friend had suggested. I put the heat pad in his bed as normal and he was fine until around 3 am. The heat pad was still hot, I know coz I had my feet on it:) . I am going to rearange things a little today and try to find a more appropriate place for his beds. I am also going to go down town and look at throws. Got a bit of a lie in this morning, so am feeling a bit more human now:D

[Elaine]

Got Winston booked into the vets today for his bloodtests and to talk about his behaviour. Turns out my old boy now has high blood pressure, which may explain why he has been clawing at me through the night. I think he was trying to tell that his head was pounding. My poor baby. Glad i booked him in early for his tests and didnt leave it any longer.

[Fran]

At least you may have an answer for his night time behaviour Elaine...has the vet been able to prescribe any medication?

[Elaine]

Yes Fran, he has been given Itsin. 1/8 of a tablet daily and take him back in 2 weeks to check his B/P again. Gave him his tablet when I got him home and am noticing a difference in him already. Its funny but sometimes, just little things he had stopped doing but I hadnt really noticed, or I had but had put it down to him maybe feeling a little sick due to the crf. Did that make any sense??? Probably not but cannt find the words to explain just now.

[Jac]

Glad things are getting a bit better. I hope his tablets do the trick for him.

[Kazz]

Hello Elaine what you say makes perfect sense to me, :).

Its hard to distinguish between what is CRF related and what is not, what is old age and what is slightly not right.

Sure he will be improved now, glad you took him.:D

[Elaine]

Thanx every one for your help, suggestions and support. If only he could talk, life would be so much simpler:D

[Elaine]

Just wanted to let you all know that Winston had a much more relaxed night cuddled up with his mummy and purring contentedly. Now crying and no clawing at all. Mummy also had a very good nights sleep and enjoyed very much cuddling her old boy through out the night.:D

[Mags]

Pleased to hear everything went smoothly last night Elaine!:-P

[Fran]

Glad you got a better night's sleep Elaine...hope it continues x

[dinahsmum]

I found this on a website. Some of it seems to ring true - so perhaps a some of Winston's issues are age-related. Don't suppose we should be suprised if our moggies mental faculties deteriorate in old age - ours do after all. :?

Senile Cat Behavior
Senile cats often display certain behavior patterns. Meowing for no reason is quite common, and can be nerve wracking (It's 3:00 am, and you've got a cat yowling in the hallway because she thinks she's lost). Wandering and restlessness are also common. Cat aggression may increase as your cat experiences some loss of mental sharpness associated with aging.

Look for these behaviors in your elderly cat if you suspect she's senile:

constant meowing
wandering
staring into space
forgetting to use the litter box
yowling
restlessness
aggression
skittishness. Many of the symptoms of feline senility can also indicate physical problems. Is the cat yowling because she's senile, or does the meowing indicate that she's in pain? Wandering and restlessness might indicate that she can't settle down comfortably because of physical discomfort. The same can be said for cat aggression: A sudden change may indicate a health problem. Have your vet decide what's causing the behavioral change.

Anyway - glad Winston appears a bit better now.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_1_23.gif

[CJK]

hi elaine, glad to hear winston is getting a bit better, elt's hope he continues to improve.

[Elaine]

Thanx for that Dinahsmum, Winston displays a quite a few of those.
I have to say I try to treat Winston a day at a time because I got into such a stressfull mess when looking into the crf stuff that I ended up paying more attention to the crf than to Winston himself. I like to be knowledgable about my cats and their state of health but it can get all consuming sometimes. OMG I really dont make any sense in my posts do I?:D
Anyway his urine sample came back today and he is clear for any urine infections too, which is always nice to know. There has been no clawing since he has started his blood pressure tablets.

[Kazz]

Sounds like you have found a solution Elaine. I have to say having dealt with CRF it can become "overwhelming" and hard to concentrate on the cat rather than the condition. As you know we have spoken before, :)

I also have to say though the older our cats get the harder itis to figure out whats wrong. Cleo displays 5 of those symptoms :shock: but I know she is disorintated occasionaly at night but one call of her name and she's okay again.:roll: But in herself she is fine, like you with Winston you take every day as it comes.;)

[Elaine]

Thanx Kazz I knew you'd understand what I was trying to say;)

[dinahsmum]

Thanx for that Dinahsmum, Winston displays a quite a few of those.
I have to say I try to treat Winston a day at a time because I got into such a stressfull mess when looking into the crf stuff that I ended up paying more attention to the crf than to Winston himself. I like to be knowledgable about my cats and their state of health but it can get all consuming sometimes. OMG I really dont make any sense in my posts do I?:D
Anyway his urine sample came back today and he is clear for any urine infections too, which is always nice to know. There has been no clawing since he has started his blood pressure tablets.

A wise observation
Glad he's improved