Moggies... is it ever right to breed them?

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Fran

I wasn't going to reply on this thread as tbh I am sick and tired of hearing the same old stories and high and mighty opinions.

The litters you are reading about on CP are very much 'wanted' litters there will be no pieces to pick up for you to worry yourself about Kim.

My kittens are all very much wanted, the new mummies and daddies have wanted /waited months for a grey kitten, just like I have been waiting months for show quality Siamese! My kittens are loved, raised in my living room as you can see from my photos. They are all healthy, flead, wormed and are being vet checked next week.. The parents are innoculated, wormed and flead regularly and have fabulous temperaments. Mum was properly cared for during pregnancy and I helped her and was with her the whole time during delivery of the kittens. My kittens are well integrated and socialised and are now weaned and litter trained. They will all go with 6 weeks free insurance, I offer a lifetime back up for new owners just as I do for my puppies and I would always take one of my kittens back at whatever age just the same as I would my pedigree puppies. I am sick and tired of being 'attacked' It is my choice whether I neuter my pets or not, not yours or anyone else's on here. I do not actively promote the breeding of any animal as Luke will tell you when he asked my advice re Elsa. I take the breeding of my animals seriously whether it be Pedigree dogs or moggie cats. If you do not agree with what I do then you do not have to read my threads. As I said before in a previous thread..

'If you can't find something nice to say, then it is better to say nothing at all'

Ahemm, excuse me, but I really don't think that was necessary at all!!! Since when was I 'having a go' at you????? I can't remember ever disagreeing with you in one of your threads. You are taking this way to personally, I have no doubt that your kittens are wanted or indeed anybody's on here, after all we are supposed to love cats, right? I was speaking generally. I was frustrated simply because a poster had posted a picture of the result of her purposeful mating of her cat and I interpreted, rightly or wrongly, because of the responses that most people seemed to think this was okay. Since reading this thread I have realised that *most* of us actually agree that neutering is best. I am not being 'high & mighty' - it is just something I feel very strongly about, that's all and I have explained why. You make your own choices, but you can't expect everyone to agree with them, just as I don't expect everyone to agree with me! however, we are all entitled to our own opinions and as someone said debate is not a bad thing. Which is why there is a 'debates' section. I am sorry that you don't like what I have said, I was hasty and I have apologised for that. We're not all perfect. However, if I feel strongly about something I will say something, in certain situations your quote is quite right, but not in all, after all we do have freedom of speech.

[bobbie3917]

Originally Posted by Kazz

It is unfair to throw these things back in people's faces. I thought more of you, especially when you obviously do not have all the facts.

Edited to say I would not intervene in this way with the majority of people here however.....
(And Yes Luke your age is going to be mentioned again this time by me). Please remember Luke is a youngster/teenager and as such is still making up his mind on certain issues and in doing so he may appear to be undecisive, so please bear this in mind remember when you were young?. I would post the same with regard to Tom, Luke or any youngster who posts here.

We are after all a community.

but saying 1 thing on here and then going and doing another thing is also not called for (i have lots more facts in my pm box if you want to see, this has been going on with him for a every long time).
when i was his age i had no intrest in breeding cats or dogs or any other animal, its not some thing a child should be thinking about

[Fran]

I wasn't insinuating that you were having a go at me in particular Kim but I obviously fall under the bracket of 'purposefully bred moggies' so I am included in anything you have to say on the subject.

With regard to my quote, it was more to illustrate that it isn't fair to disrupt member's threads. If you don't agree with pictures of their kittens then just ignore the post rather than spoiling the thread and upsetting the op. Discussions of this type should be in threads like this not someone's personal kitten thread

[borderdawn]

Originally Posted by Fran

I wasn't going to reply on this thread as tbh I am sick and tired of hearing the same old stories and high and mighty opinions.

The litters you are reading about on CP are very much 'wanted' litters there will be no pieces to pick up for you to worry yourself about Kim.

My kittens are all very much wanted, the new mummies and daddies have wanted /waited months for a grey kitten, just like I have been waiting months for show quality Siamese! My kittens are loved, raised in my living room as you can see from my photos. They are all healthy, flead, wormed and are being vet checked next week.. The parents are innoculated, wormed and flead regularly and have fabulous temperaments. Mum was properly cared for during pregnancy and I helped her and was with her the whole time during delivery of the kittens. My kittens are well integrated and socialised and are now weaned and litter trained. They will all go with 6 weeks free insurance, I offer a lifetime back up for new owners just as I do for my puppies and I would always take one of my kittens back at whatever age just the same as I would my pedigree puppies. I am sick and tired of being 'attacked' It is my choice whether I neuter my pets or not, not yours or anyone else's on here. I do not actively promote the breeding of any animal as Luke will tell you when he asked my advice re Elsa. I take the breeding of my animals seriously whether it be Pedigree dogs or moggie cats. If you do not agree with what I do then you do not have to read my threads. As I said before in a previous thread..

'If you can't find something nice to say, then it is better to say nothing at all'

I understand what you are saying Fran, but how could you possibly know that all your Cats and puppies will be returned to you? You dont. I think this is the 3rd litter you have bred from Maud isnt it? Nobody that breeds frequently (not saying you do) can possibly keep up with every animal they sell, its impossible, who would expect them to? How can you be sure that all your kittens are sold as pets and not allowed to roam, wander etc... become pregnant and produce more? It happens all the time, regardless of "contracts" etc..

I dont think anyone on here has said that ANY of the kittens bred will not be reared or cared for, just why on earth would they want to do it when they firstly have no intention of keeping any, and secondly why would anyone put THEIR Cat at risk from pregnancy, kittening, etc.. for the benefit of other people? It can only be profit? especially because there are so many needing homes already. I personally cannot see that, I cant see it with pedigree Cats, let alone moggies.

Care has never been an issue on here.

I would like to apologise if I have caused upset, dealing with Cats every day, has made me not shy to speak my mind, and never afraid to tell the truth, but if I have caused offence then I apologise.
Dawn.

[borderdawn]

Originally Posted by Fran

I wasn't insinuating that you were having a go at me in particular Kim but I obviously fall under the bracket of 'purposefully bred moggies' so I am included in anything you have to say on the subject.

With regard to my quote, it was more to illustrate that it isn't fair to disrupt member's threads. If you don't agree with pictures of their kittens then just ignore the post rather than spoiling the thread and upsetting the op. Discussions of this type should be in threads like this not someone's personal kitten thread

Would that then be seen as Catpages encourages the purposeful breeding of Moggies? Should that, in your opinion be encouraged?
Dawn.

[Fran]

Originally Posted by borderdawn

I understand what you are saying Fran, but how could you possibly know that all your Cats and puppies will be returned to you? You dont. I think this is the 3rd litter you have bred from Maud isnt it? Nobody that breeds frequently (not saying you do) can possibly keep up with every animal they sell, its impossible, who would expect them to? How can you be sure that all your kittens are sold as pets and not allowed to roam, wander etc... become pregnant and produce more? It happens all the time, regardless of "contracts" etc..

I dont think anyone on here has said that ANY of the kittens bred will not be reared or cared for, just why on earth would they want to do it when they firstly have no intention of keeping any, and secondly why would anyone put THEIR Cat at risk from pregnancy, kittening, etc.. for the benefit of other people? It can only be profit? especially because there are so many needing homes already. I personally cannot see that, I cant see it with pedigree Cats, let alone moggies.

Care has never been an issue on here.

I would like to apologise if I have caused upset, dealing with Cats every day, has made me not shy to speak my mind, and never afraid to tell the truth, but if I have caused offence then I apologise.
Dawn.

This is Maud's third litter Dawn. 2 accidental litters and this one was 'planned' She had one live kitten from her first whom I kept. So as it stands presently she has three kittens in new homes so far. Two of those went together and I know exactly where they all are and receive regular updates as I will from these three I have now when they go to their new homes. I can't speak for others on here but from my own experience I am out of pocket rearing kittens rather than reverse. Maud had mastitis last litter, the vet bill alone was more than I received for the kittens putting aside what it cost me to feed them and mum. Maud has not been well also this litter and I already have a £75 vet bill for her, the kittens will be vet checked next week that will cost me. I have paid for wormer, frontline spray and lots and lots of kitten food for mum and now babies. The babies also have goats milk which doesn't come cheap. So how you could possibly think I will make any money out of the kittens is quite beyond me

You are quite right in that I cannot force people to return their kittens/cats/puppies back to me but I hope by keeping regular contact with new owners it will help as it did recently when I took back one of my puppies from my last litter. Neither can I force them to neuter their kittens or prevent them from roaming but then neither can a 'pedigree' breeder..All I can do is educate and offer a full back up service with support for the new owners and keep regular contact with them. I have to say that I have heard about / spoken to some pretty poor breeders of both pedigree dogs and cats but because they have the label 'pedigree' it's ok for them to breed. My kittens will be a lot better raised, be healthier and much more wanted than many pedigree cat breeders out there who do breed just to make money

[Fran]

Originally Posted by borderdawn

Would that then be seen as Catpages encourages the purposeful breeding of Moggies? Should that, in your opinion be encouraged?
Dawn.

All I was trying to say is there is a time and a place for points of view to be put forward and I personally don't feel that a pictures thread of kittens is the right place

[Sue]

Originally Posted by Fran

Maud had mastitis last litter, the vet bill alone was more than I received for the kittens putting aside what it cost me to feed them and mum. Maud has not been well also this litter and I already have a £75 vet bill for her,

Can i ask why you let her have kittens, when it makes her ill?? I couldn't put my Sophie through that.

[Jeanette]

For the love of....

Sometimes I'm happy things are so different here in Denmark....

All my 4 cats have been moggies.. or as cats are known here in Denmark.. CATS!!!!!!!!!!

I for one would never ever be able to afford a pedigree cat, nor would I want one.

And for your always mentioning rescues... well I personally don't feel confident enough to bring an adult or youngish cat (or dog for that matter) into my home... I did that once and it was a disaster. I'm sure you all do a wonderful job and thank you for that..

If I'm to have another cat, it will be a kitten.. And not a pedigree, cos a "moggie" (which does sound horrid in my ears) can be just as beautiful

As to health.. well (sorry to bring this up in here, Jenny) a pedigree can have just as many health issues.. And its up to me, if I want to keep my (indoor) cat/s healthy...

Will this keep popping up everytime someone have kittens???

[Fran]

Originally Posted by Sue

Can i ask why you let her have kittens, when it makes her ill?? I couldn't put my Sophie through that.

She had one litter no problem Sue, the mastitis on the second litter the vet thought was a one off and the vet saw no reason why she couldn't go on to have the litter I had planned.

That's what makes us different Sue, I understand the risks involved with breeding and I am willing to take those risks..