Moggies... is it ever right to breed them?

[borderdawn]

Is it possible in different parts, it is more common? It is publicised a lot round here and most of the cats from the sanctuary came from one colony and they are all positive. If you have negative testing ferals, thats excellent
Dawn.

[random]

Originally Posted by DiddyDawn

There are plenty in rescues

I know I just got one today

I ment if moggies ceased to be bred (which of course they never will)

[DiddyDawn]

It depends really but most rescues only get the in house tests done which can show up as false positives, and some then euthanise even though there's a high chance the result is wrong. I've dealt with ferals the last 4 years and done a lot of colonies, if colonies are fixed it reduces the risks of any transmission of diseases as they are usually passed through bites, mating and saliva. This is the other good thing about neutering.......it stops the fighting and the mating thus reduces diseases. Publicising FIV/FeLV is a good thing as it encourages people to neuter their babes but some vets class it as a death sentance when it doesn't have to be.

[bobbie3917]

Originally Posted by Luke

I'm staying on my soap box partly for this one-but i'm with DM, would those who want every moggie speyed/neutered be hapy when there are no moggies then?

this coming from the young lad that is posting ads looking for a stud for his Cross breed cat?
there will still be moggies in 15 25 30 100+ years there area always be opps litters that will happen. from 2 pedigree cats that are diffrent breeds living in the same house, the in call queen that gets out the open window, the young kitten that is cout out before its owner knows it calling (its easy to miss in young kittens) there will be moggies about and good it will be a sad world without them.

i dont agree with having a she cat and letting it out until it is spayed. even if you are very careful your cat can start calling while out and about and be preg by the time she gets home. you might think that the cat only goes out while your in the garden what happens if the phone rings do u get her in? if not then she could be preg by the time you get back and you wouldnt know for at least 4 weeks

so i dont agree with breeding moggies but it will be a sad world with out them

[bobbie3917]

Originally Posted by Emm

You can't compare the two because dogs have been bred and then cross bred many times to gain the end result of the breeds that we have today.

so have cats how do you think we got some of the newer breeds? there are also many ppl out there cross breeding today trying to make new breeds not a lot of breeders agree with it but its being done

Originally Posted by Emm

Cats - moggies have been around for generations - more or less more natural.

but you will find dogs that are 100% non pedigree same as moggies

Originally Posted by Emm

What diseases do you get by moggies breeding? (I'm asking this because I genuinely don't know) cat flu, FelV etc are all preventable by vaccination so this does not count because if you were responsibily breeding you would have your cat vaccinated.

When you allow dogs to breed without testing they are prone to many illnesses - heart problems, eye problems, HD, poor temperamants etc.

cats moggy and pedigree can get all the same problems as dogs can(and more) if you breed two pedigree cats together they still both need all the health tests for that breed. maybe in moggies you dont know what to test for as you dont know the back round of your cat and if something does pop up its just said as that happend but how is any1 to know that is is not genetic if you have not tested the sire and dam?

Originally Posted by Emm

I've had moggies all my life - I don't see what is wrong with them.

[Canis-Equus]

Well, i started this i guess id better expand a bit on my feelings.

I have a moggy, i have always had moggies and i always will.

IF i knew my cats history, going back several generations, if he had clear tests for all teh things one might test a cat for, and if his 'wife' to be had the same, and they both had traits that would compliment one another, both in themselves and in each others 'pedigree's, despite both being moggies...... and IF i had more homes than there would be kittens, if i could guarantee that they would all be neutered, vaccinated etc....

Then i might consider breeding him, for the sole reason that he has the most fantastic temperament i have ever seen in a cat.

But no one can know all that about a moggy and its the pedigree that is the issue (bear in mind all animals have one, but not all of them are recorded!!) here, without knowing what the animals predecessors had, carried, displayed, you cannot know what will happen.

How do you know if your delightful queen carries a recessive gene for something horrific, and that her mystery husband carries that same recessive.

In a moggy, you dont.

In a pedigree the chances are you do.

This is not and never has been a 'are pedigrees better than moggies' issue. There are those of us who have never had a pedigree and would never set out to have one, and there are those of us who have never had a moggy and never would, and then there are the people who will always have both. Its not that ones better than the other, its that people have different desires!

Mongrel dogs and moggies are TOTALLY comparable, pedigree dogs, like pedigree cats (although more so) have been engineered by human beings - lets face it, a persian cat would not have that coat in the wild, and he wouldnt survive with such a short nose/face in competition with 'normal' cats at all (im NOT calling persians or other shortfaced cats 'abnormal' before anyone leaps on that).

People will always want a specific type of cat and thats where breeders come in, hopefully though their main aim is to improve the breed, and get it as near to the breed standard as is possible (which of course will never happen because everyones interpretation of that standard is slightly different).

One cannot have that same aim in a moggy because there ISNT a breed standard for moggies - so they cannot be breeding to improve the breed, to hope that the offspring are better than their parents....

Until such a time as there are NO feral cats, no front doors inadvertantly left open, no sneaky tom cats slinking in through a window someone forgot to shut, and all cat owners get their non pedigree cats neutered, there will ALWAYS be moggies and i for one am glad there will be, but i STILL do not want them purposely bred - asides from everything else, there are far more people who will take a free or cheap moggie kitten and discard it when its nto cute any more, than there are people who will buy a £300+ kitten and do the same thing.

I dont think ANY animal should be bred where the sole reason is money, or ignorance, be it pedigree or moggy!

Em

[borderdawn]

this coming from the young lad that is posting ads looking for a stud for his Cross breed cat?
Very sad indeeed, especially when for the most part Luke says he cant even stroke her, what a terrible shame, and what a terrible thing to even consider passing that sort of temperament on. Now that is irresponsible!
Dawn.

[Sweet]

Both my two are moggies:-

Violet was born on a farm, I had her from 4 wks, YES she was ill when she came to me, but with my love, care and attention - she made it thro!! and is now a loveable kitten.

Mau Mau was from Bristol Dogs/Cats Home in good condition but still a Moggie.

I do not have any further views except to say......I wouldnt have it any other way, I Love them both dearly and so do my family.

Julie x

[Luke]

See this is what gets me on catpages nowdays-you never know when to back off!
What takes place outside of catpages is none of anyone's business TBH..we are allowed to lead our own lives without it being poked into by strangers who just happen to post on a forum..
Lets get one thing straight..i had been told by numerous knowledgable cat breeders and our own vet that a litter MAY give Elsa some focus, MAY settle her slightly..whilst remaining sceptical as a family we thought we would consider this, HOWEVER Elsa has chosen the life she is happy with and thats coming and going as she pleases..and in order for her to live this way she will be getting speyed ASAP for all of those out theres information Also, the adds were old, for those whom i actually talk to off the board would know how i had my doubts about this resolving any of Elsa's issues..and the fact of bringing life into this world with the state it is in
And i would like to thank Dawn, as it was something you said recentlly on an email about a cat you board (i think) that had similar frightned behaviour around people and how speying changed her/calmed her down etc that concreted in my mind that Elsa will be speyed-and it could stand a chance at helping with a few of her problems without the worry of new life in this world, so thanks!
And thats totally off topic and it shouldn't have been brought into this debate.
Nextlly...i would just like to say to those who have brought Elsa's temperament up...do you think i choose to have a cat that is so petrified after all that has happened to her in her younger days?
Do you think i enjoy the fact of barely getting a stroke of her?
Do you think i relish the fact of knowing that for the next 20 odd years possibly she may never change the way she is?
But does this mean i wont love her still?
No to all the above. And i would appreciate if my business, and my life and the life and temperaments of my animals were kept off this board unless i post in relation too it.
See catpages was such a friendly place, but now its just turning into nothing but backstabbing and one up manship!

[borderdawn]

I dont think you wanted a frightened Cat Luke and as I said in my mail to you I was thinking about her whilst boarding the Russian blue with similar problems, which is why I mentioned it. I am pleased you are choosing to spay her and I really hope it helps her in the manner in which it helped this Cat, however Bobbies post did alarm me somewhat, which of course is why I responded. You could not ever hope to raise a litter of kittens with a Cat whom you could not handle freely, and to pass such a temperament on would be awful.

I also wished you luck with Elsa and I still do, you said you had the patience to help her and I believe you do, I think others will agree that you have already made massive improvements, I think so anyway.

So on that score Luke, I commend you for having the maturity beyond your years, and wellbeing of your pets at the front of your mind.
Dawn.