"Why are 'pedigrees' any better than moggies" (breeding debate)

[Az]

I know someone who has bred a bengal (unregistered) with a normal moggie and sold the kittens :roll:

And in a recent discussion she said, "why shouldn't I breed, why are pedigrees any better than crosses?"

I was telling her about the homes she is taking away from cats in rescue, and how breeding without knowing parentage can lead to all sorts of health issues.

So I guess it's an interesting thought - why should pedigree breeders be 'allowed' to breed, and cross breeders not?

Discuss :p

[alexgirl73]

Talk about putting the cat amongst the pigeons Az lol!!

[alexgirl73]

I suppose the technical answer is they should be able to, but the moral one is, no they shouldn't. As you say, there are so many moggies in rescues already, this is just compounding the problem.

[Az]

But this person is questioning the moral standing - "why are pedigrees any better than moggies?"

[alexgirl73]

I don't know tbh. Is it more that pedigrees cost a lot of money and the breeders are more likely to sell them to vetted homes! It's a very difficult one to answer

[Jac]

In my experience whether Dog or Cat if the person has the money they get what they want.
As for are Moggies/pedigree's any better than each other. What's a Labradoodle? A Heinz!!! Now I have put the cat amongst the pigeons. But, when a person buys a pedigree they know what they want. That's why they go for a specific breed. Hopefully they wont carry any genetic problems. With pedigree to moggy you don't know do you. In saying that, Moggies and Heinz 57's do have longer life spans. So which is best? Ha chicken or egg situation.

[Tinker]

The reason I got Rosie and Pheobe from a rescue was that I didn't want to support indiscriminate breeding (and having been to see moggie kittens for sale privately I think there is a lot of it going on and the cats and kittens are not wormed, flea treated, vaccinated etc etc, the cat is just popping out litter after litter for the owner to sell).

Having said that, if nobody bred from their moggies then those of us who prefer moggies wouldn't have cats!

Personally I think it is a bit odd to cross a moggie with a pedigree cat and charge more for the kittens than moggie kittens would cost. At the end of the day the kittens are still moggies!

[swerv]

i agree with people have said above but would like to add that ive too seen bengals/BSH crossed with moggies and people charging up to £100 for the kittens.

breeders usually take care in breeding and select the cats to keep the best going.

pedigrees are not better than moggies its just a choice you make when getting a cat, i chose the BSH because i love the breed and think they have wonderfull personallity.

i fail to see why people breed a pedigree with a moggie what is the point? they obviously got a pedigree for a reason.

i could rant on forvever.......but i wont lol

[Donna]

I would like to know why, if pedigrees each have certain issues that are known, ie. Fran has mentioned labradors have hip problems (correct me if I have got this wrong), then why are pedigrees seen as better than a cross breed that has no known health issues and fortunes are charged for them? Know there are lots of other health issues with other breeds of cats and dogs but just cant think of any at the minute!!

[Jac]

I think the reason moggies dont have known health problems is because the parents have never been health checked. Possibly "father unknown"

With most people being responsible these days and having there cats spayed/neutered. Kittens are more difficult to come by. On to the bandwagon jumps Mr or Mrs lets make a quick buck. I have seen moggies advertised for over £100 because kittens are getting like hens teeth. That is unless you buy a pedigree and not everyone has that kind of money.

I could list loads of problems with both pedigree cat and dog breeds but lets face it they are all man made.

[Elaine]

Personally, I dont think that pedigrees are better than moggies but I am not a fan of breeding either. More and more pedigrees are ending up in rescues.
I am sure the Breeders here will correct me if i am wrong, but I think that reputable breeders have a moral obligation to either take in or help rehome kittens that they have sold, but for what ever reason the new owner cannot keep.
I am certain that there are breeders who will uphold that obligation and there are those that wouldnt/dont.
Indescriminate breeders are just that.
I would like to see some sort of licensing act whereby breeders have to have their kittens microchipped, a fine put in place for any of them that find themselves in the hands of a rescue.
This doesnt just apply to cats but to many animals being bred. May help end the sale of animals in petshops for one thing and ofcourse there would have to be a mandatory law on spey and neutering pets.

[borderdawn]

I dont think they are "better" than moggies, but most are more responsibly bred and reared, with health tested parents. Most moggies are bred from god knows which tom cat who stands more than a fair chance of having one of the lethal diseases that they freely pass on, thats enough IMO.

[Soupie]

[QUOTE=Elaine;449887]
I am sure the Breeders here will correct me if i am wrong, but I think that reputable breeders have a moral obligation to either take in or help rehome kittens that they have sold, but for what ever reason the new owner cannot keep.
I am certain that there are breeders who will uphold that obligation and there are those that wouldnt/dont.
Indescriminate breeders are just that.
[QUOTE]


Perhaps I have had good luck but all the breeders I know will have their kittens back - the breeder I bought Mister from also offered to refund my money if I had to bring him back but she is incredibly caring and her main interest is "the breed" and the homes her kittens go to. We've been emailing every few days and she is so helpful and seems grateful I am keeping her up to date on him!

I have to say I have encountered a number of people who when they can't keep their pedigree will not go back to the breeder but put the cat in a rescue - there is little a breeder can do about that realistically. There are people who turn out to be bad owners as well.

I have seen breeders make people sign "contracts" saying they cannot rehome a cat or kitten but that it must go back to the breeder for "free". Not only are these contracts are unenforceable and in fact I think they can put people off sometimes going back for help and advice ......

I adore moggies and the best cat I have ever owned and is still missed every day was my little farm kit. But I also adore Selkirks a breed which I stumbled across when I rehomed one from someone I know through the horsey world - he needed more one on one and all I paid for him was petrol money for his delivery. I did go on and buy another because I adore the breed so much - they are laidback and loving and everyone who has met mine are smitten with them ;)

Both my peds come from families where their parents and grandparents etc have been screened for PKD, are tested annually for all other nasties and al other defects they can be tested for. That is the attraction I think for people who buy peds as pets from reputable breeders - they can see the families, parents, know that the kits are free from things such as hereditary heart conditions and PKD and there is the breeder who should and often do help them after their purchase.

I do not think peds are "better" than moggies but the normal system of ped breeding by a reputable breeder is better than that which oftens results in baby moggies - normally (not always) unplanned or as a result of failure to neuter and kits getting out with no health checks or blood testing or often expertise of the "breeder".

[Lian]

I wouldn't say pedigrees are any better than moggies at all, but I think we should all have the freedom of choice. I wanted indoor cats so chose a breed that was happy inside.

[yola]

Lian - I couldn't agree more. That is why I chose persians; sedate and happy to spend most of their time indoors :D

[dandysmom]

I wouldn't say pedigrees are any better than moggies at all, but I think we should all have the freedom of choice. I wanted indoor cats so chose a breed that was happy inside.

But not all moggies object to being mostly indoor cats! Mine were harness-trained and enjoyed walks outdoors and in the garden, but were equally happy inside ......

The three pedigrees I've had: Siamese, Aby and Singapura were also harness trained....

[babycakes]

I have a moggy who is harness trained and goes outside but as we live on a main road it would be selfish of me not to protect him from being run over.

[charliebubs]

It's an interesting debate and one that I don't think has an answer, as ultimately it is down to personal choice. I don't think that pedigrees are any better than moggies, but the same as Lian and Yola - I chose a pedigree as I wanted an indoor cat and also I wanted to get into showing.

I also agree with what Soupie says about breeders' contracts not being enforceable. I have found more and more as I've been helping the Rags Rehome Group that the cats we end up with did come from reputable breeders and were sold with contracts, but for whatever reason the new owner choses not to return the cat to the breeder (or even approach the breeder) and hands them over to us (or tries to sell them, as is more often seen). This is unfortunately out of the control of the breeder, unless a scheme is brought in as Elaine suggests.

In the breeders' defence - generally once we advise them that we have one of their cats they will either offer to take them back, or to pay for their neutering and/or other vets costs at the least.

Sometimes breeders cannot do enough to protect their kittens and tbh that scares me to death. I will always want to know what happens to Lily's babies and that they are safe and well and much loved pets and still with the people I sold them to.

I know that Red's breeders experienced a huge problem when they sold a male kitten to a lady on the non-active register (i.e. not for breeding) and said that they wouldn't hand over his GCCF papers until she had provided them with evidence that he had been neutered. She never did this, as she didn't care about having the papers, and she advertised this cat as an unregistered stud cat. She was only interested in making money from this poor cat and despite all their best efforts (and the fact that she had signed a "contract") there was nothing the breeders could do.

It's people like this who then end up in the position that Az describes - selling half pedigree and half moggie kittens and for as long as people are buying these kittens it will continue.

Sorry - that was a long rant!!! ;)

[Sweeney Todd]

I'm with Jac on this one......Well put