Elsa update...HELP!!

[Luke]

Well i write this tonight with arms covered in blood and a heavy heart:?
You all know Elsa is a bit erm...strange due to various behavioural issues she has...shes very timid. petrified of people, cant stand to be touched etc
Well when she was a lot younger she had this attacking thing-v nasty at times!! And seemingly we had gotten through it...but it seems to have returned with a vengance. i was sitting on the sofa..she comes in...jumps on the sofa opposite to me and just watches (strange i know) and all of a sudden pounces over and just rips my arm to pieces...me screaming didnt help im sure but what could i do?!?!
She would NOT let go...she had her teeth and claws sunk right into the skin! As i'm here on my own (till monday) as mum is away on family business...i was genuinley worried. Managed to get to the kitchen (cat still attached min!) and get some water to throw on her...this finally got her off. And my arms by this time are just dripping red...Elsa then charges at my leg but i manage to thwart her attempt and have shut her away in the kitchen (with bed, litter tray and food-see im still caring!)

Now this was totally unprevoked and totally out of control!! Her timidness is sorta forming into visciousness-she has been attacking Clementine for no reason and hissing at the dogs (bar her florrie!)..
I thought maybe it was because of Ralph entering the house....but as it was pointed out she had started to become more 'viscious and odd' prior to his arrival. I really don't know what to do...i've spoke to the vet NUMEROUS times..and we have tried EVERYTHING!!
Behaviourists...the advice they offer and actions they take just seems to make her more strung out TBH:?
reading all the books
LOADS of tests to see if she has something medically wrong with her.
Tried seperating her from the other pets
Tried doing things on her terms
tried keeping her as a house cat-this didnt work so tried letting her come and go as she pleases
Tried all the 'relaxant' sprays/oils *i think thats right* and everything
tried clicker training
tried food reward basis
NOTHING will work-she had a phase where she made progress but it dwindled away for some reason..
What do i do?
She has not YET been speyed...this is something we are in the process of organising...but the vet is very inclined to have a fool proof plan of how/when to do it so it will cause Elsa as little as distress as possible..i have been told this may make a slight difference to her behaviour..but its the temperament that seems to be a bit iffy at the moment:?
I could cope with her being timid and not being able to touch her...but i can not (and IMO shouldnt be expected) to cope with a pet that attacks people and the other pets for no reason.
For benefit of newer members...Elsa came from a strange friend of a friend of my aunts who in actual fact is nowt but a filthy BYB!!...her littermates (bar one) died shortly after birth..she was fostered off to a persian with a litter of a similar age sired by the same cat...but they were kept in this sorta cubby hole/cupboard thing in a library/study-NO human socilisation. This topped off with being v-ill when she first came here and having to be at the vets all the time...and hardly at home for the first few months (on and off) of her time here!-we knew this had 'scarred' her (according to our vet) but maybe its a little deeper than we thought...
So do you have any ideas/advice to try/give?!?!?!

[Sweet]

I am not sure what to say Luke, I hope someone on here will be able to offer more advice - make sure you clean yourself and maybe salt water and then antiseptic - any worries contact your out of hour GP tomorrow.

It may be the hot weather? x

[Luke]

I am not sure what to say Luke, I hope someone on here will be able to offer more advice - make sure you clean yourself and maybe salt water and then antiseptic - any worries contact your out of hour GP tomorrow.

It may be the hot weather? x
Thanks Julie...it could be but there has been this odd *feeling* around the house today...the animals have all steer cleared of Elsa today..v-strange, almost as if something was building in the house (i sound as if i have lost it dont i?!?!)
Ive cleaned up all the wounds...there are four quite large ones on my right arm n hand..and lots and lots of small 'puncture marks' *thats what you would call them i think?* and there are 3 fair sized cuts on my left arm and a few puncutre marks on my left hand...the right one took the main bashing!!
I popped my head around the kitchen door and she was asleep without a care in the world..

[random]

Has she had a season, is she due?

[ladywerewolf]

Sorry i can't help you Luke, hope you manage to get to the bottom of it.

[candyshandy]

Have you spoken to Wizz - she is very good and will be very honest with you.

http://wizz-catz.co.uk/

[Luke]

Has she had a season, is she due?
She has had a few calls (dont worry she is kept securley in when calling-that will be sorted soon!) But she isnt due again for a good while yet...but when approaching/in call shes allways much mellower than usual!

[Luke]

Have you spoken to Wizz - she is very good and will be very honest with you.

http://wizz-catz.co.uk/
Thanks for the link Candyshandy-i will contact her tomorrow!:)

[dandysmom]

Luke, do cats have to have rabies shots in the UK? Can you get to an ER to have those wounds looked at and treated...cat bites, especially deep ones can get infected. Right now I'm more worried about YOU than Elsa. I have no idea what could have set her off like that, but it's very frightening; you don't know what set her off & don't know when it will recur! Has your vet suggested putting her on tranquilizers...you might want to discuss it with him/her.... please keep us posted!

[Luke]

Luke, do cats have to have rabies shots in the UK? Can you get to an ER to have those wounds looked at and treated...cat bites, especially deep ones can get infected. Right now I'm more worried about YOU than Elsa. I have no idea what could have set her off like that, but it's very frightening; you don't know what set her off & don't know when it will recur! Has your vet suggested putting her on tranquilizers...you might want to discuss it with him/her.... please keep us posted!
To my knowledge we do not vaccinate for rabies over here (i may be wrong)...she is settled down now and still asleep...i am off to bed shortlly, just got off the phone to me mam...the reaction i got was usually mumsy fretting stuff!:roll:
I will make an appointment to see our vet a.s.a.p and take it from there..
The cuts are all washed out, stopped bleeding, cream on and plasters everywhere-right sight i look:lol:

[Hreow]

You can get vaccinations for rabies - you may need them if you're bringing your animals to a place abroad that has rabies. It's not much of a problem in the UK. Being on an island with fairly strict import-rules about animals helps. :-) Doesn't rule it out completely, of course.
I'd worry more about tetanus and all the rather nasty infections you can get from cat-bites. However, I won't repeat the fretting mumsy stuff - you've had that. :grin:

Best of luck with Elsa - hope there is a less than final solution. :-( You've put so much work and love into it. {hug}

[Booktigger]

Do keep an eye on them, cat bites can get infected and it isn't pleasant. I would defo speak to Wizz, she gives wonderful advice. I would also be tempted to push the vet on the spaying, as it could make a big difference - I have heard of cats being temperamental, and when spayed, they had ovarian cysts which were causing them pain - but I dont know how old Elsa is.

[Sweet]

Hi Luke, I do hope its much calmer in your home today x

[Mags]

Luke, when I first got Cassie she had had no human socialisation either and used to attack me the same, although she never used to rip my arms like Elsa is doing to you.

I always knew when it was about to happen as her ears would go right back and she had a certain look in her eyes. I always gave her a firm 'No!' when I suspected it was about to happen and she used to back off. I was able to control it by doing this.

I would like you to know that by getting her spayed at 6 months, she calmed down alot and is now a loving household pet. I hope you will get the same results when Elsa is done.......

[Luke]

Good Morning Everyone
Thanks for your advice! We have come this far...so im not gonna give in that easily!!
She seems quite calm today..she still spat at me when i walked past her earlier..but none the less, quite calm. Her behaviour is concerning in itself...but an incident occured this morning...she was in that foul mood, so goes for one of the dogs..her once beloved Florrie would you believe it, Florrie goes to 'bite' back..and it turned into warefare..cause Polly joined in aswell! This has been one thing that for so long has been niggling away at me...i know the dogs are soppy and love the cats..but what if..what if one day she goes for them or attacks them and they retalliate..its come very close before (like this morning) but i have allways been there to break it up, but what if next time i'm not?!?!
I just intend on letting her do her on thing today and stay out of her way for a bit..

[Mags]

I would seriously think of getting her speyed Luke......it seemed to work with Cassie....

[Luke]

I would seriously think of getting her speyed Luke......it seemed to work with Cassie....
Oh its definatley happening-but our vet just wants to find the appropriate time...we were disucssing sedating her prior to taking her to the sugery (YES she IS that bad!)..

[Donna]

Agree speying is the next step. It doesnt matter how scared or bad she is getting her there as she will hopefully come home a less tempermental cat. You have to try things in a certain order... speying her, and if that makes no difference, move onto something else.

I am sorry I cant offer any help, but an animal behaviourist (sp?) could be the next step after the speying.

Maybe she just finds a multi pet household very stressful and doesnt know how to deal with it.

[Luke]

Agree speying is the next step. It doesnt matter how scared or bad she is getting her there as she will hopefully come home a less tempermental cat. You have to try things in a certain order... speying her, and if that makes no difference, move onto something else.

I am sorry I cant offer any help, but an animal behaviourist (sp?) could be the next step after the speying.

Maybe she just finds a multi pet household very stressful and doesnt know how to deal with it.
I fear that you are right there Donna....she has never like human company..but tolerated us at a fair distance etc, but she would allways get insanely jealous if she saw us with the other animals..Then again, i tried the one to one and she was just petrified..i then tried "group therapy" as the behavourist suggested...and she was exactly the same...it just is like fighting a never ending battle...with the occasional step forward and then 3 leaps back:?

[borderdawn]

At the risk of getting shouted at, if a pet of mine attacked as you say, unprovoked, it would be PTS by now! Dogs, Cats, makes no odds, a pet that attacks has no place in todays society. Sorry if it upsets, but I feel strongly about this subject.

If a medical reason is found then maybe ok, but certainly not if there isnt, and I think Luke you will find there is nothing wrong with her.
Dawn.

[Luke]

At the risk of getting shouted at, if a pet of mine attacked as you say, unprovoked, it would be PTS by now! Dogs, Cats, makes no odds, a pet that attacks has no place in todays society. Sorry if it upsets, but I feel strongly about this subject.

If a medical reason is found then maybe ok, but certainly not if there isnt, and I think Luke you will find there is nothing wrong with her.
Dawn.
Hi Dawn
You won't get shouted at by me-never in all my days have i ever actually 'feared' a pet..let alone a cat!
I will be popping along to the GP tomorrow as one of the wounds on my hand is all swollen:?
Will have a chat with mom when she returns home tomorrow...

[Booktigger]

I dont think PTS should be an option till she has been spayed and given a few weeks for her hormones to settle, as it could make all the difference - and I wouldn't be waiting for the appropriate time anymore, I would be booking her in. I have lived with a cat that attacked for no reason, and it isn't pleasant, I never considered pts, but after 8 months, she sadly died, so the decision was taken out of my hands - I dont know what I would have done if she hadn't become ill.

[borderdawn]

I dont think PTS should be an option till she has been spayed and given a few weeks for her hormones to settle, as it could make all the difference - and I wouldn't be waiting for the appropriate time anymore, I would be booking her in. I have lived with a cat that attacked for no reason, and it isn't pleasant, I never considered pts, but after 8 months, she sadly died, so the decision was taken out of my hands - I dont know what I would have done if she hadn't become ill.

I would agree, and I have suggested to Luke on previous occasions and based on Cats I boarded that spaying may help, but Elsa has been like this all her life hasnt she? before any hormones. If Elsa was a dog, would you still think the same? Cats are just as dangerous and more unpredictable.

Yes I would go for the spaying option, but if it were me, I wouldnt be waiting for a specific time, it would be done in the next few days, people shouldnt be put at unessesary risk, especially from their pets.
Dawn.

[Jac]

I would agree, and I have suggested to Luke on previous occasions and based on Cats I boarded that spaying may help, but Elsa has been like this all her life hasnt she? before any hormones. If Elsa was a dog, would you still think the same? Cats are just as dangerous and more unpredictable.

Yes I would go for the spaying option, but if it were me, I wouldnt be waiting for a specific time, it would be done in the next few days, people shouldnt be put at unessesary risk, especially from their pets.
Dawn.

I agree with Dawn on this one, pets of any kind should be a pleasure not something to be afraid of as Luke has already said he is. On another note have you thought about re homing her to a home with no other animals? Not every animal is happy lving in a multi animal house. Do you think she could be getting stressed? Have you tryed putting backs herbal rescue remedy in her water? It may take the edge off her.

[Luke]

I agree with Dawn on this one, pets of any kind should be a pleasure not something to be afraid of as Luke has already said he is. On another note have you thought about re homing her to a home with no other animals? Not every animal is happy lving in a multi animal house. Do you think she could be getting stressed? Have you tryed putting backs herbal rescue remedy in her water? It may take the edge off her.
Hi jac..
We have tried the rescue remedy a fair few times..it does have a sorta affect, but it isnt last longing (probably doesnt make sense!) We were discussing the issue of rehoming her on Friday as she doesnt seem happy with the lifestyle we lead-other pets, children around the house constantly, a fairly "lively" household and lifestyle in general-its really something that would be a last resort sorta thing..but as you said, pets should never have to be feared-and i will admit it, when concerning Elsa i am!!
She has never been that affectionate...when she first came here she was..'skittish' (pretty normal kitten i guess, but with that something you couldnt quite put your finger on) she was never one for cuddles or sitting on your lap, and allways had this touch of aggression with the other pets...as time went on her behaviour worsened-she has become more timid, more destructive, and more "viscious" (sounds weird using that word in cat terminology!) and its come to a point where our safety, and the safety of the other pets is slightly jeopardised due to Elsa's temperament/behaviour...and due to her temperament/behaviour she is comprimising her safety when concerning the other animals.
I think its going to be round two with her and the dogs soon...she is stomping around grumbling to herself.
I know in my heart of hearts that its my fault-i shouldn't have taken her on. The day we viewed her litter i just had this niggling feeling that something wasn;t right..something didnt add up, but i was assured as she was an aquitance of a relative of mine that the kittens were fine-how wrong was that?!?!?!
And also...i looked at that little round face and my heart melted-she was such a gorgeous kitten, who could resist?!?!
It started off by wanting a "cuddle kitten" and ended up with a nightmare in my lounge!
I'm open to all suggestions of anything to do:)

[Donna]

I would book her in TOMORROW to be speyed.

I would then give her a month after the speying to see if it has made a difference.

If there is no difference then the only option is to try and find her a home where she is the only pet/no children around.

Just my opinion Luke.

[Jac]

Thats silly blaming yourself Luke.No one knows how anything is going to turn out. Get her booked in and take it from there.

[smudgley]

Have read this thread with interest.
I agree, I would get her spayed ASAP. It may change her temperament for the better. I can't undesatnd why your vet is waiting for "an appropriate time" what on earth does that mean? When is more appropriate than tomorrow? There should be no need to sedate her prior to her being taken to the vets.

[Luke]

Have read this thread with interest.
I agree, I would get her spayed ASAP. It may change her temperament for the better. I can't undesatnd why your vet is waiting for "an appropriate time" what on earth does that mean? When is more appropriate than tomorrow? There should be no need to sedate her prior to her being taken to the vets.
She is insanely timid...and she does not cope well in vet situations (possibly due to her time there when she was younger?!!?) so she often goes into sheer panic and just looses it..last time she was there to have a tooth looked at she injured her leg by frantically pawing under the consulting room door to escape-this sort of behaviour is most distressing for her and for those who must witness it. The vet was waiting for a time when she was possiblly more settled in herself, so she could "cope" with just being at the vets (let alone the speying itself) without ending up in such a state as previous times.

[Booktigger]

Like I said earlier, I have lived with a vicious cat and it isn't pleasant - she would also go for you for no reason whatsoever and both me and Ginger feared her (and awful as it may sound, the house was a nicer place when she went to the bridge, and Ginger was a different cat) - but I would be trying basic things like spaying before considering rehoming her, as I think it is irresponsible not to, esp for the new owners.

[Jac]

If re homing were to happen I'm sure Luke would be honest with any would be homes for her. Otherwise it just wouldnt work. Unfortunatly being the re homing side of things honesty is very much appreciated but seldom forth coming.

[Booktigger]

Hmm, wont let me edit my last post.

Sedatives are very dangerous if given without checking the animal over. I would look into some kind of cage used for ferals, where the vet could give her the sedation in the cage (can't think of hte name, just that it begins with a b), as this needs to be done. How old is she now?

[Mags]

She is insanely timid...and she does not cope well in vet situations (possibly due to her time there when she was younger?!!?) so she often goes into sheer panic and just looses it..last time she was there to have a tooth looked at she injured her leg by frantically pawing under the consulting room door to escape-this sort of behaviour is most distressing for her and for those who must witness it. The vet was waiting for a time when she was possiblly more settled in herself, so she could "cope" with just being at the vets (let alone the speying itself) without ending up in such a state as previous times.
Luke, Cassie is an extremely timid cat who also hates going to the vet. When she has been unwell and also when she needs her boosters she HAS to go to the vet....timid or not. I would never not take her because she was too nervous/timid. Have you ever taken her to the vet?

[Donna]

If she was put into a cat carrier to take her to the vets to be speyed. She can be left in the carrier until such time as the op. Then without any "loved ones" witnessing she can be taken from the carrier by people used to handling animals and then sedated so she can be prepared for the op.

Surely this is fairly straightforward?

[Luke]

Jac-Most definatley so, if rehoming was the next step i would have to be assured 100% that the people knew what they were taking on with Elsa and understood what exactlly her issues were/are.

In regards to the vets...she has been to the vets on a few occasions of being slightly older (was there a lot when younger!) and it allways ends in her being very distressed and she goes off her food for a few days afterwards...usually messes in the carrier as soon as we set foot in the surgery through sheer panic, vet usually ends up cut/scratched in some way, Elsa cries through the whole ordeal-all not v.pleasant but is necesary for her health of course.
Catching Elsa to put her in the carrying cage is difficult, more than difficult its impossible!! Its not nice to have to catch her, cover her in a towel and manoover her into the cage-all the time she is bawling her head off!
Before this gets out hand BTW, things are not in anyway as straight forward as they may sound...just stroking her is a HUGE issue, so catching her is even bigger, putting in a carrying cage even bigger..and so on.
It would seem that we will have to take the risks of what the vet was most concerned about with her and just go ahead with the speying however.

ETA-under no circumstances would her health be in anyway put n jeopardy due to the issues she has and the whole vet thing, just thought i would clear that up.

[smudgley]

Luke - you say she was in & out of the vets for the first few months of her life, so she obviously associates the vets with bad things - lots of cats do unfortunately. But that's life & the longer she's left - the more likely she will get pregnant, so I'd do it ASAP. I can get a feral cat from my pen into a carrier, (not saying it's easy - but it's fairly straight forward) then the vets transfer them to their crusher cage (sounds horrible - I know) but is just a special basket, from where they can safely anasthesize the cat - prior to the op.

[Luke]

Luke - you say she was in & out of the vets for the first few months of her life, so she obviously associates the vets with bad things - lots of cats do unfortunately. But that's life & the longer she's left - the more likely she will get pregnant, so I'd do it ASAP. I can get a feral cat from my pen into a carrier, (not saying it's easy - but it's fairly straight forward) then the vets transfer them to their crusher cage (sounds horrible - I know) but is just a special basket, from where they can safely aneasthetise (sp) the cat - prior to the op.
Yes smudgley...its also where a few of her 'general' issues come from....people touching her for example. The vet had said about the crusher cage thing being the only safe way for all concerned to aneastetise (sp) her...

[Jac]

Luke it may well be worth asking the vet for some kind of sedative before going. I know they dont like doing it but they will if it's going to be a healthier option for the animal. Does that sound right? Hope so.

[EmmaG]

Sorry to hear you are still having problems with Elsa Luke :(

If it was me I would have her spayed immediately and then I would rehome her, from what you say (her jealousy regarding the other animals) does all point to her needing a home that is quiet and with no other animals or children I suspect. From what you say about your home life Luke it does sound very busy and I have thought many a time, when you have said about Elsa and her problems, that if her environment is causing a lot of it?

I know it is heartbreaking to even considering having her rehomed but you are very justified in your thinking about the dogs causing her harm if she attacks one of them, and having more than one dog is surely going to increase the likelihood of their "pack" behavior coming out?

Nobody should live in fear of their pets Luke, and although Dawn's words do seem harsh I do agree with her, if Elsa doesn't get spayed and finds a home that she is comfortable with, nobody is going to be able to live with her.

[Luke]

Well we have a decision (for now)....we will book her in for speying ASAP and see how things progress from there...i'm not totally sure if it will resolve things but thats JMO. If there isn't an improvement after speying then we will rehome her. I have question..how on earth will i get her to rest whilst re-couping from the op?!?!
Its going to be near impossible as she doesnt stand anyone near her so how on earth are we to settle her down, stop her attacking her stiches etc?!?!?!?!?!?!!

[Luke]

I was looking back at some photos n vids this afternoon-in actual fact, Elsa wasn't allways like she is now....she was allways timid and skittish but she had, had an iffy start anyway...its only after all that business at the vets when she went 'strange' and started to fear people totally-maybe there is something tied in with this t hat could overcome this problem?
noticed this pic on my photobucket thing...would be lovely to have this back again!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Lu-1/Catpages43e138f9e84da.jpg

[smudgley]

Well we have a decision (for now)....we will book her in for speying ASAP and see how things progress from there...i'm not totally sure if it will resolve things but thats JMO. If there isn't an improvement after speying then we will rehome her. I have question..how on earth will i get her to rest whilst re-couping from the op?!?!
Its going to be near impossible as she doesnt stand anyone near her so how on earth are we to settle her down, stop her attacking her stiches etc?!?!?!?!?!?!!

Put her in a dog cage/kitten pen.

[random]

Good Morning Everyone
Thanks for your advice! We have come this far...so im not gonna give in that easily!!
She seems quite calm today..she still spat at me when i walked past her earlier..but none the less, quite calm. Her behaviour is concerning in itself...but an incident occured this morning...she was in that foul mood, so goes for one of the dogs..her once beloved Florrie would you believe it, Florrie goes to 'bite' back..and it turned into warefare..cause Polly joined in aswell! This has been one thing that for so long has been niggling away at me...i know the dogs are soppy and love the cats..but what if..what if one day she goes for them or attacks them and they retalliate..its come very close before (like this morning) but i have allways been there to break it up, but what if next time i'm not?!?!
I just intend on letting her do her on thing today and stay out of her way for a bit..

My cats and dogs are always fine together, and have never had a fight like you have described, but still I never leave them alone together when i'm not there, as I wouldn't leave them alone with my son (3yrs). I trust them with my life and I don't think they would every hurt anyone, but any animal can turn. At the end of the day any human can turn :roll:

So just don't leave them alone together and nothing will occur :)

[Luke]

My cats and dogs are always fine together, and have never had a fight like you have described, but still I never leave them alone together when i'm not there, as I wouldn't leave them alone with my son (3yrs). I trust them with my life and I don't think they would every hurt anyone, but any animal can turn. At the end of the day any human can turn :roll:

So just don't leave them alone together and nothing will occur :)
Hmmmn it seems strange to have to seperate the "family" from each other..they once were all so close-if it prevents any more big scraps though...
Maybe the speying will settle things down and restore some sort of sanity to Elsa and the household:?

[Jac]

But it's not a family Luke. They dont get on and someone could get badly hurt.

[random]

Hmmmn it seems strange to have to seperate the "family" from each other..they once were all so close-if it prevents any more big scraps though...
Maybe the speying will settle things down and restore some sort of sanity to Elsa and the household:?
Surely better than one of them being killed? They can still have time together under supervision.

My tabs was never handled as a kitten, we had to hand rear her as she was tiny when we got her, and we were pretty much the first human contact she'd had. I was only 7 at the time, so my dad did most of the work.

She is 14 now, she will 'tolerate' people to a certain extent. She doesn't like being picked up, cuddled, stroked, she doesn't even like being in the same room as us. She HATES the other animals. Spaying did calm her down somewhat, but it didn't make her miraculously want to sit on my lap and purr, I don't even remember ever hearing her purr...

She likes to stay outside, she likes to catch birds and mice, and she likes her own space. She likes my Border CollieX, Charlie. She will lay with him in the garden, BUT NO ONE ELSE! Not even another cat. She WILL NOT stay in the same room as another animal, not even a hamster.

She doesn't like being in the same room as people anyway, if you bring her in the living room, she will sit by the door, paw at it, mew, and when it is opened she will run as fast as her chubby legs will carry her to the back door.

She likes sleeping in her bed in the wash-house, undisturbed. If anyone else is in the wash-house, she hates it in there and wants to be outside.

She hates the vet, last time she was there she has blood on her stools, I got a fair few scratches putting her in the carry box, I have a one that opens at the top, it's easier for her. Luckily she sleeps indoors 50% of the time, if not she'll be here for brekkie (she loves food). So we trapped her in the utility room and it was easy enuff to put her in the carrier in such a small room. (Not even big enuff to swing a cat! lol SORRY!)

At the vets he proceeded to call out 3 veterinary nurses and myself to hold her while he took her temp, this was months ago now, she still hates me for it although she did let me stroke her last week without biting.

She doesn't randomly attack us, but then again she doesn't really have the chance. She spends about 80% of her time outdoors, although now she's older she rarely leaves the garden, and mostly just sleeps. When indoors she's either asleep or eating.

BUT, at the end of the day, she is very healthy (vet said one of the healthiest senior cats in his surgery, if a little plump!:oops: ) She's happy, and although we don't get the cuddles or the games, or laughs as we do the others, at least she's happy as she is. Maybe this is what Elsa would like, TBH I think spaying will calm her, but you won't see miricles, if you are thinking of rehoming her now, I think you will still go ahead.

[Luke]

Well....at last she seems to have calmed down from last night (she really is highly strung!)..she has reverted to the bottom of her airing cupboard now and is just very quiet...its quite disturbing how her moods/behaviour can change so drastically.
I'm doing the right thing by seperating the dogs from upstairs arent i?!?1-i've locked the stair gate securely..and am sitting down here on laptop.
Clementine seems to be a bit...worried by Elsa's presence (that might sound ridiculous!!) she has just been very wrestless since Elsa returned to the bottom of the airing cupboard..
We shall see what is said at the vets tomorrow-and will update you about her speying:)

[dandysmom]

Luke, when you see the GP, if he doesn't mention a tetanus shot, ask him!! Years ago when I was younger & dumber, I made the mistake of breaking up a fight my Siamese had gotten into with a ginger tom in our yard...I KNEW the thing to do was throw water on them, or a coat or blanket, but instinct took over, I picked my cat up & he bit the H**L out of my arm (cannot blame him, he thought he was being attacked from behind) and hit a vein...I was bleeding allover the place, got him in the house & called a taxi to get to the ER with an emergency tourniquet made of an old tube sock on my arm... the point of this story is that the hospital insisted that I needed a tetanus shot even though I explained it was my own cat, an indoor cat. So..please ask. As to Elsa, I am in agreement that she should be spayed ASAP and then re-homed if this doesn't improve her disposition. I feel so sorry for her; she had an unfortunate beginning in life & all your love & care just hasn't worked out. I agree she simply cannot stand the stress & just snapped, Poor baby....

[Kazz]

Hiya Luke

Sorry only just picked this thread up. I have to say if she were my cat and attacked like she has with no reason I would have her PTS - no matter how much I loved her MAYBE that should read because of how much I love her.

However if you decide to spay her good I am sure she will be fine and not worry the stiches - no point worrying before it happens.

Good luck, and take care of yourself cat bites can be worse than dog bites make sure you go to the Doctors.

[dandysmom]

Do they still use the stitches that dissolve, or is this a matter of preference with vets? Years ago when Misty was spayed she had the dissolving ones & didn't have to go back in. When Leia was spayed about 6 1/2 years ago she had vivid purple stitches that the vet had to remove...she never tried to pull them herself, although I understand many cats do. If your vet used the dissolving kind, it would save poor Elsa from another trip...just an idea...

[Donna]

My two had dissolving ones - they actually only had one stitch each as my vet did a kinda keyhole surgery thing - was absolutely amazing!!!

After about half an hour Misty had eaten her stitch and the wound didnt need re doing as the vet says he usually only puts the stitch in to keep the owners happy as such a small incision would heal without a stitch!!!

Hopefully Elsa will have no problems with her stitch/wound as they dont really get bothered by the whole experience. I was amazed how my cats were just the same when they got home with no side effects!!

[smudgley]

Good point DM. My vets will use dissolvables if I ask & I always do with the ferals.

[Moli]

Don't know if you remember Luke, when we first got Oliver he was evil, he would lash out with the claws and sink his teeth in to you and not let go....He really was a nasty kitten, I had him spayed as soon as he was big enough, and it has made a difference....He has become very loving now....Hope it works as well for Elsa...

[Sweet]

Violets stitch was dissolvable. Mau Mau was already done x

[dinahsmum]

Only just caught this Luke. I am so sorry you are in this situation. It is very sad but I too would be incredibly wary of a cat which attacked with a vengeance and without provocation. I hope the spaying works. If not I think you should mull over what the future may bring - for both of you. Your life may well change hugely over the next 10 - 12- 14 years; you will have to think whether it can seriously accomodate an unpredictable and potentially dangerous large cat. Sorry x

[Rosie]

At the risk of getting shouted at, if a pet of mine attacked as you say, unprovoked, it would be PTS by now! Dogs, Cats, makes no odds, a pet that attacks has no place in todays society. Sorry if it upsets, but I feel strongly about this subject.

I am afraid I agree - this sounds like one very unhinged pussy cat. I am sure she cannot be happy (nothing to do with you or your home) and it would seem that every day there are situations that push her just a bit further. I could under no circumstances allow any animal to upset the family (and by this I mean my pet family) in this way as sad as it is.

[Luke]

Well....mom returned back from down the south today, we had a chat and have decided Elsa will be rehomed in due course, for the fact 1) No pet should be feared by their owner 2) Three of the four other pet occupants of this house were here before Elsa and its not fair that they have to suffer (clementine has started pulling her fur out-stress related maybe as elsa keeps picking on her?!?) and 3) It isnt fair for Elsa herself that she should lead a life she obviouslly isn't happy with.
We will find her the best home possible where her new 'parents' understand her issues, and a home where she has no other housemates or children.
I'm not too sure how to go about finding her a new home though...go through a rescue organisation? Private rehoming?
I do, however, feel a right royal failiure-first kitten that i've brought up myself and she ends up like this! Also have vowed no more felines now-Clem can live her days out royalling it over the dogs, and i really couldnt go through this sorta heartache again.
Thanks for all your advice and support:)

[Moli]

Sorry to hear this Luke, you have tried and its not working, maybe you are right and Elsa will do better as an only pet...

[dinahsmum]

That is a very sad but probably very wise decision. It cannot have been easy for you.
I don't think you should beat yourself up - Elsa did not have the best of starts did she? Obviously she could not get away from it.
And never say never ........... there are lots of kits and cats needing good homes. Maybe the right one will find you at some point in the future. Just let it happen.

[Luke]

Thanks Both-maybe irrational but i rang her so called "breeder" *found the phone number last night* this morning and gave her a peice of my mind...told her that she was totally irresponsible and did she realise the hurt she caused people by unleashing these unhandled kittens on them-and how could she have let Elsa go to a new home knowing she was ill at the time.
You want to know the response i got?!?!
"Well....i've got some persian x bengal kittens for sale if you want to replace the one you're rehoming?!?!":shock:
Needless to say i gave her a rather nice reply back and slammed the phone down on her!
It is cold hearted, incosiderate, money making, LYING people like this that should never be allowed animals let alone to breed them!
And she told us they were accidental litters...pffft!

[dinahsmum]

............ and that strange pedigree/different pedigree cross thing again? I don't understand that.
Your moggie will turn up sometime, maybe a fully grown one, with a sweet character. Smudgley would put a word in for you! Seriously, there are always sad cases of people who have to give up a much loved, spoilt and beautifully behaved cat due to sad circumstances - divorce, loss of house etc.

[Luke]

I don't understand it either-this woman is a compulsive liar-we were told, if i remember rightly, she had two accidental litters sired by the same cat..and that her females would be done once the kittens had gone-LIES!!! both those queens (including Elsas ma who lost all bar two kittens) have gone on to be bred from, AND this woman has aquired MORE cats for her 'stock':evil:
Maybe in years to come there may be a room for a slightly older rescue moggie who had a rough start-but not for a long time me thinks.
I would like advice on where to start to look for a new home for Elsa?!?-rescue shelter/organisation? private rehoming? other?

[Mags]

So sorry to hear this Luke but you did your best with Elsa and gave her every chance...

She is obviously unhappy around other animals:(

I'm sure that after a while another kitten/cat will come along and capture you heart ;)

[dinahsmum]

I would like advice on where to start to look for a new home for Elsa?!?-rescue shelter/organisation? private rehoming? other?
Any and all I would think Luke. Give them a completely candid account of her life to date and her good and bad points. She is much more likely to find the right home if you are honest.
Do you think she would like a job in a stables/farm, that sort of thing. If so try to find the right place for a private ad - whether it's a postcard in a shop window or a small ad in a local paper.
Good luck

[Luke]

Any and all I would think Luke. Give them a completely candid account of her life to date and her good and bad points. She is much more likely to find the right home if you are honest.
Do you think she would like a job in a stables/farm, that sort of thing. If so try to find the right place for a private ad - whether it's a postcard in a shop window or a small ad in a local paper.
Good luck
Right...rang the CP and left detals to get back to us..RSPCA were utterlly useless (no surprises!!)
and rang one of my aunts who manages a stableyard not too far away...she cant take Elsa on as she has her crowd of terriers who see to the vermin and would probably see to a cat too:shock: but she said she will ring around some pals of hers who run/own stables in and around Coventry and see what she can do..
IMO that sorta life would be Elsa's dream..she likes nowt better than to go hunting and the great outdoors-so that widestrech of territory of a stableyard/farm sorta place, with the bonus of little if any human contact would be her ideal sorta life maybe?!?!

[dinahsmum]

Luke - a sudden thought! You will get her spayed before you release her won't you?????? Just thinking of those people with £££££s in their eyes who might see it as a great opportunity to get a beautiful breeding queen - and who cares about temperament when you can make money :?

[Luke]

Luke - a sudden thought! You will get her spayed before you release her won't you?????? Just thinking of those people with £££££s in their eyes who might see it as a great opportunity to get a beautiful breeding queen - and who cares about temperament when you can make money :?
Most definatley DM-think its being arranged this afternoon when going to the vets.
We have decided we would prefer to privatley rehome her to a stable/farm sorta life as she really does love the outside world-and preferablly to someone who we know will look after her and maybe we can pop along and see her once in a while..

[dinahsmum]

That sounds like Elsa-heaven.

[Luke]

Think it may be woth posting on the rescue bit of DW in search of a sorta stableyard life for her?!?

[Hreow]

Definitely worth trying, I'd say. The more people who know she needs a new home, the more offers you might get, so you can pick the best one.

I'm sorry there was no magic solution, but perhaps this will be a blessing in disguise for all of you?

[Luke]

Have posted over on DW-maybe will get some joy on there?

[Luke]

Home has been offered at a stables/farm over in Bedworth....got to ring them in a short while to chat a bit more...

[Luke]

Well the lovely man who owns the stables rang about 40 mins ago...and he said we are welcome to go over and see the stables and location etc at some point this week, which we said we would.
During this time a lady from the CP rang on the other line...she spoke to mom asked about Elsa etc...and said she would get back to us tomorrow with details/info of some of the foster's who deal with the 'timids and ferals' as she put it..
Really must say the CP have been so very helpfull today-they really do good work!

[borderdawn]

Can I ask why you have gone for a rehome straight away, when you were going to have her spayed and see how she went?
Dawn.

[Luke]

Can I ask why you have gone for a rehome straight away, when you were going to have her spayed and see how she went?
Dawn.
Was not my direct choice...my mom is the adult and in this situation she excersised that power fully. After the incident on Saturday night mum quite frankly said that an animal who does that unprovoked doesn't stay here, plus the fact the other pets (most were here before elsa) aren't happy due to Elsa and her behaviour, and TBH i don't think Elsa is happy here either.
Elsa will be getting speyed before rehoming:)
I would just like to take this chance to say i do so hope that i am not thought any less of on CP for having to rehome Elsa-in this situation it isn't my choice, if i had my way i guess that she would be speyed and given time..but my mom is the adult she makes the decisions like this..i can just stick by her by this one, i've given my opinion and it was taken into account but didn't change anything.
The lady who spoke to us from the CP said it does sound as if Elsa just doesn't like/can't cope with being in a multi-pet household amongst other things.

[dandysmom]

Luke, OF COURSE no one thinks less of you!! You have gone the last mile for Elsa, have tried your very best to make her happy, and it unfortunately just didn't work out. Your mom has the final say. I think Elsa would be much, much happier in the situation you described; let us know what the place she might go to is like! I hope the spaying isn't too traumatic for her..and you!

[SillyTilly]

Luke,
I think you're doing the right thing. Some animals just cannot be trusted in the home. And also it sounds like Elsa is very unhappy too. I think having her speyed then moving her somewhere where she can be happy is the best solution for everyone.

By the by I have had to treat various animals over the years who have not been good with vets (from horses to rats) in every case although the stress has not been pleasent the out come has been well worth it.
I have used completmentary therapies very successfully - particularly rescue remedy. It really seems to take the edge of proceedings.

Good luck and best wishes

Olivia

[Kim]

Sorry Luke, I have only just caught up with this thread.

So sorry to hear of the problems with Elsa. The situation has got really bad and I feel you are doing the right thing by re-homing Elsa. Well done for getting her speyed first, hopefully this may make a difference. I admire you for what you have put up with and the way you have tried everything with Elsa. I personally wouldn't have her pts, for me that would be the very, very last resort. Speying is a good start and her new home sounds great and perhaps just what she needs to become a happy cat. Hopefully you will be kept informed of her progress?

{{Hugs}}

[Booktigger]

It is a shame your mum isn't willing to give her some time after being spayed, but it may make no difference at all, and she could be reacting to other things. It is a sad decision having to rehome pets, but sometimes it has to be done for their sake - looking back, it is what I should have done with Tigger, and if she hadn't got so ill, I prob would have had to do the same, as living with a cat that will attack you and other pets for no reason isnt nice and could end up causing health probs with your others.

[borderdawn]

Hope it works out Luke, and I hope they can keep her in if they cant get near her! Good luck.
Dawn.

[Luke]

Thanks all-the gent popped around this evening to see Elsa-he was taken aback by her looks and she actually sat and meowed at him-looking quite happy!
We have arranged for her to go tomorrow evening now as it will work better for her new family:)

[smudgley]

Sorry it turned out like this - but glad you have managed to rehome Elsa. :)

[random]

I thought you were getting her speyed first Luke? :?

[Luke]

This was to be the plan-however we spoke it through with the vet and he basically said that she wouldnt be able to rest up properly at home considering she can't 'settle' at home under normal circumstances-so how about letting her recoup in her "new home"...the man who owns the stables and will be Elsa's new owner said it was no problem and he had the perfect place where she could rest up, be monitored yet still have her own space.

[smudgley]

I really feel she should be spayed prior to being rehomed.

[random]

I really feel she should be spayed prior to being rehomed.
I can't agree more, I feel she'd also re-coup better at your place Luke, at the end of the day, like it or not, it's her home. If she were re-homed first she would have to settle in, thus having the outdoor life and risk of pregnancy whilst she does so, then after the operation she'd have to be taken back indoors to be monitored :?

[dandysmom]

I'm inclnied to go along with the vet's opinion...he's there, he knows the cat and the circumstances and he feels this would be the least stressful for Elsa. Presumably she'll be kept indoors in her new home until the operation.

[Booktigger]

i too think that she should be spayed first, there is too much of a risk of her getting out and pregnant by rehoming first - although I can sort of see the vets point

[LMC]

"If you love something, set it free..." - which is effectively what you're doing with Elsa Luke. It's very hard to have to give up a cat who you have come to love, but because you love her, you're doing the best for her.

My mother had a semi-feral cat who managed to get herself pregnant before mum had her speyed (tut). She kept one of the kittens, but the pair of them were a nightmare - soiling the house, aggressive, etc. The other kittens were socialised the same and were homed very happily - but the 'kept' one learned bad behaviour from her mother I guess.

Eventually, mum rehomed them at a farm, and they were as happy as Larry - settled down in no time and really enjoyed themselves. I hope it will be the same for Elsa.

I agree that Elsa should preferably be speyed first - then you know it's been done. With keyhole surgery, as someone up there (sorry, forget who) said, the stitches are really a reassurance thing. Jenny removed hers herself: I had the vet check the scar when she went in for her second round of jabs (had to start vaccinations from scratch) but no problems.

Well done for making a difficult and brave decision.

[smudgley]

When we spay the ferals - they use dissolvables & we can release them after 3 days. Not long really for Elsa to be confined to recover. Benefits far outweigh the risks in my opinion, but hey - it's your choice.
Hope she settles well in her new home.

[Naomi]

I thought she was being spayed and going straight to her new owners after the op?

[Rosie]

I think you are doing absolutely the right thing. I am sure she will be very happy with her new freedom.

[borderdawn]

I have reservations too Smudgely. If the people who Elsa has lived with all her life cant handle her, how on earth will a stranger? if Luke cant get her into a cage to go to the Vet, how will they? and how will they be able to monitor her etc... will she eat to begin with, its VITAL she does following an op, and how will they stop her escaping and dissappearing BEFORE she is spayed? I would really ask you discuss it further with your mother Luke, JMO but I feel its a risky business doing it this way and as Smudgely says, 3 days with dissolvable stitches is a great idea, and you, the person she knows best can keep an eye on her.

I understand how difficult this must be for you.
Dawn.

[tilly]

I know its a bit late but these link below deals with strays and ferals

http://www.pussycatlodge.co.uk/index.html

Sally